Canucks slow starts are a failure of coaching

[*Buzzsaw*]

What we are seeing as a common characteristic throughout this season are very slow starts for the Canucks.

 

We can't score first, we can't score in the first period, and most worryingly, we get scored on early... often in the first minute.

 

Other teams are very much aware of the Canucks weakness early... teams are told 'Canucks are shaky early', 'they can't score goals', 'get one early and the game is over'....  you can see it in every opponent... they come very hard and fast and just like Detroit, they are often rewarded.

 

And once the first goal happens, it sets the tone of the game... Canucks are fighting an uphill battle.

 

There is absolutely no excuse for the team giving up goals in the first 30 seconds or minute.  Any decently coached team should be able to weather the first few minutes of a game without conceding a goal.  Everyone is fresh, the coach can start his best defense pairing and best shutdown line, the instructions of the coaching staff should be clear.

 

So why are the Canucks consistently allowing goals early?

 

Sorry, but the blame has to be laid at the feet of the coaching staff and in particular Willie Desjardins.  If things don't change very soon, he should be replaced.

['NucK™]

It's cause the boys are nervous as hell playing under Willie.. only when they get their legs going that they can tune out the unnecessary pressure put on them by WD and just play the game.

[Jägermeister]

In addition to coaching, they also aren't good.

[timberz21]

4 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

What we are seeing as a common characteristic throughout this season are very slow starts for the Canucks.

 

We can't score first, we can't score in the first period, and most worryingly, we get scored on early... often in the first minute.

 

Other teams are very much aware of the Canucks weakness early... teams are told 'Canucks are shaky early', 'they can't score goals', 'get one early and the game is over'....  you can see it in every opponent... they come very hard and fast and just like Detroit, they are often rewarded.

 

And once the first goal happens, it sets the tone of the game... Canucks are fighting an uphill battle.

 

There is absolutely no excuse for the team giving up goals in the first 30 seconds or minute.  Any decently coached team should be able to weather the first few minutes of a game without conceding a goal.  Everyone is fresh, the coach can start his best defense pairing and best shutdown line, the instructions of the coaching staff should be clear.

 

So why are the Canucks consistently allowing goals early?

 

Sorry, but the blame has to be laid at the feet of the coaching staff and in particular Willie Desjardins.  If things don't change very soon, he should be replaced.

 

If it didn't happen with that awful streak, not sure it's going to happen at all.  One win in their last 10 games, 1 for 6 on the roadtrip, lowest scoring team in the NHL.    Not saying a coaching change guarantee us playoff spot, but at least there is still time to at least compete for a playoff spot.  If we wait another 10 games, it will be too late.  IMO it's now or never.

[Ronning4center]

3 minutes ago, Jägermeister said:

In addition to coaching, they also aren't good.

I disagree....we are much better than we're playing.  There is definitely something wrong in the room.

[LaBamba]

if you know so much about coaching, tell us what WD is doing wrong systematically. 

 

You can't cycle without a threat at the point. We can't run and gun with 4 top 6 forwards. And we aren't big enough to dump and chase. 

 

For how talentless this team is on paper I am absolutely shocked that we are competitive at all. 

 

People are acting like giving Jake 5 more minutes of ice time would be the difference maker in our season. Or icing the forth line too much is why we can't score. What a joke. I believe WD will be fired, however who ever comes in is going to have just as much poop to work with. When he can't get it done we are looking at you Jim. 

['NucK™]

10 minutes ago, Jägermeister said:

In addition to coaching, they also aren't good.

Ok..? Doesn't mean they can't be better with a new coach. 

 

And being better isn't even the point, the point is to speed up a rebuild. We need a coach that emphasizes individual improvement every day. Instead we have WD who thinks this team is too deep to even have Virtanen playing 15 mins and refuses to switch his focus from team success, to individual player growth and development.  

 

This focus on team success is exactly what causes problems in the room of a below average team, when said success doesn't come. Focus on player development and celebrate the little victories and everyone will benefit. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

what if it starts at breakfast, day of the game? byGawd.. Whadda'wedo??

[Ronning4center]

8 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

if you know so much about coaching, tell us what WD is doing wrong systematically. 

 

You can't cycle without a threat at the point. We can't run and gun with 4 top 6 forwards. And we aren't big enough to dump and chase. 

 

For how talentless this team is on paper I am absolutely shocked that we are competitive at all. 

 

People are acting like giving Jake 5 more minutes of ice time would be the difference maker in our season. Or icing the forth line too much is why we can't score. What a joke. I believe WD will be fired, however who ever comes in is going to have just as much poop to work with. When he can't get it done we are looking at you Jim. 

I've played organized sports my whole life.....something as small as pairings and placements can drastically affect a game. If you're not stoked to play with the guy next to you...it shows

  Also confidence and mindset can win or lose a game before you start.  It's not always JUST on ice systems.  Which let's face it....look terrible as well.

[Jägermeister]

10 minutes ago, Ronning4center said:

I disagree....we are much better than we're playing.  There is definitely something wrong in the room.

Unfortunately I'm not so sure about that.  At least not Hansen and Tanev out.  A coaching change could lead to a small improvement, but it's pretty evident that we are sorely lacking in talent.

 

6 minutes ago, 'NucK™ said:

Ok..? Doesn't mean they can't be better with a new coach. 

 

And being better isn't even the point, the point is to speed up a rebuild. We need a coach that emphasizes individual improvement every day. Instead we have WD who thinks this team is too deep to even have Virtanen playing 15 mins and refuses to switch his focus from team success, to individual player growth and development.  

 

This focus on team success is exactly what causes problems in the room of a below average team, when said success doesn't come. Focus on player development and celebrate the little victories and everyone will benefit. 

That's why I said in addition to.  

Willie sucks and should be fired immediately in my opinion.  But he's not the sole reason for our struggles.  

I agree with you completely on the need to turn our focus to development.

[VanGnome]

Lowest scoring team is a direct result of players doing what they're told and playing within the system. Even when on offense, the Canucks are playing defense. No D are pinching to maintain zone pressure, players not finishing their checks to create havoc on the forecheck. Players not driving to the net, and instead take perimeter shots and over passing to try and get 1 good opportunity instead of just throwing everything on net.

The head coach has a direct effect on scoring, as he sets the overall game plan and system that the players follow. Look at Crosby from a couple years ago, once they fired their coach and hired Mike Johnston, he started scoring like crazy.

The first year WD was here, he let the players play offensively and we scored a decent number of goals, in fact they were 8th overall in goals for. Then we lost to Calgary in the 1st round, and since then WD has deployed a defensive first strategy at the expense of goals for. Last year we were 2nd last in goals for. This year we are dead last in goals for.

WD is too obsessed with preventing goals that he cannot find a good balance in his systems to allow for goals to be scored. He doesn't trust the players, it's evidenced by his belief that they can win by keeping games close and "hoping" that the PP can win it for them.

How do you expect the players to play with confidence if the coach cannot exude confidence? This team CAN score, it has the ability. It lacks the required coach and structure needed to let their offensive game flourish.

[Four Sport Guru]

This has been an issue with the Canucks organization going back for some time. It could be that the first line does not consist of any crashing/banging types but more perimeter players. That crashers and bangers tend to get things going in the right direction (when they are not taking penalties) on the first shift and can start the momentum swing. If you are talking about purely scoring first, this Canuck team is a failure like few that I can ever remember seeing. 15 games in and they have led in 2 games I believe. 

[LaBamba]

6 minutes ago, Ronning4center said:

I've played organized sports my whole life.....something as small as pairings and placements can drastically affect a game.  Also confidence and mindset can win or lose a game before you start.  It's not always JUST on ice systems.  Which let's face it....look terrible as well.

 

I have played a high level of hockey as well. I have been on great teams and 2016 Canucks bad teams. 

 

You know what I have learned? The better players you have the more goals you score. The better the coach the fewer goals you let in. You cannot score on systems alone. You need to know how to fool a goalie. 

[riffraff]

12 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

if you know so much about coaching, tell us what WD is doing wrong systematically. 

 

You can't cycle without a threat at the point. We can't run and gun with 4 top 6 forwards. And we aren't big enough to dump and chase. 

 

For how talentless this team is on paper I am absolutely shocked that we are competitive at all. 

 

People are acting like giving Jake 5 more minutes of ice time would be the difference maker in our season. Or icing the forth line too much is why we can't score. What a joke. I believe WD will be fired, however who ever comes in is going to have just as much poop to work with. When he can't get it done we are looking at you Jim. 

 

When Bo is your best forward and you play him for 12 minutes with none or very few ozone starts............your post is correct.  But his deployment still sucks.

[Ronning4center]

1 minute ago, LaBamba said:

 

I have played a high level of hockey as well. I have been on great teams and 2016 Canucks bad teams. 

 

You know what I have learned? The better players you have the more goals you score. The better the coach the fewer goals you let in. You cannot score on systems alone. You need to know how to fool a goalie. 

Oh for sure but that's an over simplification....if the players don't have faith...they don't play as a cohesive unit. 

[Four Sport Guru]

Just now, riffraff said:

 

When Bo is your best forward and you play him for 12 minutes with none or very few ozone starts............your post is correct.  But his deployment still sucks.

There really is not much for the coach to work with here. However, he doesn't seem to be making the most of what he does have. He seems comfortable relying on overplaying veterans in order to save his job and give him the best chance of winning (see goaltender start yesterday) but that is not working out well for him and he does not seem to want to deviate from that plan. 

[Phil_314]

3 minutes ago, Ronning4center said:

I disagree....we are much better than we're playing.  There is definitely something wrong in the room.

On paper maybe, plus I think the preseason set peoples' expectations too high.  The Twins and Burr aren't the same guys of old (Danny and Hank's production is tailing off, relatively speaking, while Burr is now a 4th liner).  The kids (Bo, Sven, Jake, Hutton, Stecher, Tryamkin, guess I'll include Rodin and Granlund if they expect both to be top-6 players, plus Gaunce) aren't ready to succeed the leaders and form the next generation of the team.  Meanwhile there are a bunch of solid vets (Hansen, Eriksson, Sutter, Edler, Tanev, Gudbranson, Sbisa), but it doesn't help them produce when the coach randomly puts Derek Dorsett in the top-6 or Jack Skille on the 3rd line.  Meanwhile, if this team didn't have Miller or Markstrom to save the day I think we could already be front-runners for the No-win for Nolan sweepstakes (as it stands we're one point away from the bottom). 

So maybe the problem does have to do partly with coaching (e.g. roster combinations), but even the coach needs to work with the roster he's got, and if the roster leaders are in decline and get no support, plus there's no one to sign or acquire without giving up a part of their future in trades, you could see that the problems run deep.  In short, there is no short-term fix, not even if the coach is fired (which happens all too often in rebuilding teams).      

[TheOgRook]

20 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

if you know so much about coaching, tell us what WD is doing wrong systematically. 

 

You can't cycle without a threat at the point. We can't run and gun with 4 top 6 forwards. And we aren't big enough to dump and chase. 

 

For how talentless this team is on paper I am absolutely shocked that we are competitive at all. 

 

People are acting like giving Jake 5 more minutes of ice time would be the difference maker in our season. Or icing the forth line too much is why we can't score. What a joke. I believe WD will be fired, however who ever comes in is going to have just as much poop to work with. When he can't get it done we are looking at you Jim. 

 

While I gave you a plus for most points, and I believe WD may be fired.. It's not the coach who plays the games and JB. Hasn't been here long enough to fix ALL the deficiencies he inherited upon arrival.  Only time will tell, sadly Buttsaw will create a stupid post after every loss claiming to know the reason for our lack of success.

[TheHockeyNerds]

I usually don't ever get annoyed on these forums but comeon. If you know anything about about hockey you would know coaching isn't the reason this team isn't good. 

[LaBamba]

2 minutes ago, Ronning4center said:

Oh for sure but that's an over simplification....if the players don't have faith...they don't play as a cohesive unit. 

 

I respectfully disagree. We have a lot of chances at the net. It's skill and finish we lack. Like I said we aren't skilled enough on the blue line to take chances and we aren't heavy enough to dump and chase.

 

Look at this nut cracker. Even if we had a guy on each line willing to, or big enough to stand in front of the net, we still don't have a dman with a shot to use that screen. Lol it's like we don't have any interchangeable components to create offence. I have never seen anything like it. 

 

We cant cycle because cause we have no threat at the point. The other team just creates a box in front of the goalie. We past it to the point and the D have no screen because of the box. You can't go cross ice because of the box. You can't get to the net because of the box. 

 

We arent big enough to dump and chase. Who do we got in the top 6 that can hit a dman to turn the puck over? 

 

We do not have the players to score. We get shots and chances but the quality of shots are low and to the outside . We don't have the dangle to make things happen up close either.