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Ferraro: Canucks must let kids play through their mistakes...


Honky Cat

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3 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

 

Fire Willy now.  We need a coach that know how to develop our younger players.

I like the tough love approach green gives.  that might be the type of coach virtanen needs to fire him up.   Willie looks out of his element and lost.he has just looks defeated like last year.

 

if green can get anything out of Jake I suspect a coaching change will take place.

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I agree with Ferraro's idea. It's been an idea we as fans have been encouraging Willie and his coaching staff to implement. Horvat needs to play 15-20 minutes/game to continue his development. Him notching 60 points is not out of question and very achievable. He's the future all star of our team. Same with Virtanen. He needs to play 10-15 minutes/game to further his development. But first and foremost he has to make the most of his current TOI. I don't blame Willie for giving him that many minutes if he's not really trying to make a positive impact.  Play the kids so we can see what we have in them 

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In Virtanen's case, I can't blame Willy for benching a guy that's not showing his best. Maybe Jake doesn't want to make mistakes which is fair, but he has been invisible for a lot of games and I think Utica will do him well. Jake blew an opportunity to prove himself with the small ice-time he got by coasting and not driving the play.

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2 hours ago, gameburn2 said:

Exactly.  I might even suggest Horvat as 1C, or co-1C with Henrik.  Bo needs the ice time, as do the other younger players who can score.  We hear that Bo's minutes are under 15 some of the time!!! Dorsett and Burrows at 16, Edler etc., at 17 to 19 lol.  Time to turn the page.


I'm officially down for a rebuild, but this is just...sorry, but dumb.

Henrik out produces Bo by a wide margin. What is 1st C? Bo-Ho getting 20 minutes a night? Why would Horvat get Hanks minutes? What has he ever done to prove he is a #1C? What has he done to say he is currently better than Henrik? Nothing, ever. Henrik @36 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Horvats career.

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4 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

In order to be competitive teams need to develop players. You can do that in the ahl and (yes this is shocking) also in the NHL. 

When you develop players at the Nhl they will make some mistakes and it can cost you some games. But that doesn't mean a coach should be afraid to play them. A coach has to teach a player to learn from their mistakes so that eventually they make less. Having them sit and watching isn't teaching.  Having them scared to make a mistake because the will sit doesn't make them better. 

 

typically cup teams can afford to develop players in the ahl. They can win without those players and let them dominated the ahl before making the jump. But cup contending teams also can't afford too many young players making mistaking. cup contending teams #1 focus is to win and win now. 

 

Since rebuilding teams can't keep up with the skilled cup contending teams they can afford to develop players at the NHL level and get them a head start on Nhl experience. rebuilding teams main focus is to win in the future. Developing players to help them tomorrow is more of a focus. You can stay competitive and rebuild. You just have to be ok with the mistakes a young team might make. Mistake that may cost you games.

 

 

Contending teams and rebuilding teams have different goals. Contending teams success is based on team records and how far they made it in the post season. Rebuilding teams goal is based on how much progress young players made. 

 

With that said. What type of team are the Canucks?  

So at the end of the year will we look back and say we accomplished our goal? 

 

Which model should we follow. 

 

we didn't make playoffs but at least dorsett, skille and burrows tried hard.  

Or 

we didn't make playoffs but jake, Hutton, bo and Sven have sure made good strides at becoming consistent impact players.   

 

That's all well and good. But it's pretty clear ownership down the message being filtered is we still want to contend and make the playoffs but yet we are not sacrificing assets to improve the current roster.

 

Willie doesn't have job security like Babcock does to rebuild. Even Linden and Benning are being forced to keep saying we want to make the playoffs by ownership so Rogers Arena doesn't become a complete ghost town until they lower ticket prices.

 

Sometimes I really wonder how people in power with their experience, intelligence, network and advanced degrees can't figure out how to work together to do what is best for the team long term and it's fans instead of being near sighted and caring more about profits.

 

The problem is ownership and the lack of patience of fans this is not a quick transition it will take a minimum of 4 more years until the Canucks are legitimately going to be able to be a playoff team.

 

Doesn't mean the team can't play entertaining hockey in the meantime by playing younger players and adding 1 high skill player each offseason to keep interest short term in the team.

 

They have the cap space with Burrows and Miller coming off the books. Bridge deals for Horvat and Gudbransson and other RFA's hopefully.

 

 

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5 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

In order to be competitive teams need to develop players. You can do that in the ahl and (yes this is shocking) also in the NHL. 

When you develop players at the Nhl they will make some mistakes and it can cost you some games. But that doesn't mean a coach should be afraid to play them. A coach has to teach a player to learn from their mistakes so that eventually they make less. Having them sit and watching isn't teaching.  Having them scared to make a mistake because the will sit doesn't make them better. 

 

typically cup teams can afford to develop players in the ahl. They can win without those players and let them dominated the ahl before making the jump. But cup contending teams also can't afford too many young players making mistaking. cup contending teams #1 focus is to win and win now. 

 

Since rebuilding teams can't keep up with the skilled cup contending teams they can afford to develop players at the NHL level and get them a head start on Nhl experience. rebuilding teams main focus is to win in the future. Developing players to help them tomorrow is more of a focus. You can stay competitive and rebuild. You just have to be ok with the mistakes a young team might make. Mistake that may cost you games.

 

 

Contending teams and rebuilding teams have different goals. Contending teams success is based on team records and how far they made it in the post season. Rebuilding teams goal is based on how much progress young players made. 

 

With that said. What type of team are the Canucks?  

So at the end of the year will we look back and say we accomplished our goal? 

 

Which model should we follow. 

 

we didn't make playoffs but at least dorsett, skille and burrows tried hard.  

Or 

we didn't make playoffs but jake, Hutton, bo and Sven have sure made good strides at becoming consistent impact players.   

Great post. 

I think at this point, the fans are ok with losses if it means hope for the future. We're ok with JV missing an assignment of it means he'll lay a guy out with a monster hit or snipe a goal. 

The latter option is much more exciting than watching a team that is clearly not good enough ride their old guys in hopes of making the playoffs which is apparent to everyone else as impossible. 

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Can't speak for others, but have become pretty jaded & tired with what the 'expert' talkin heads expound, in their overpaid, virtually meaningless gigs.

 

As Elton once sang, "I've seen That Movie Too". Feels this shyte goes 'round on about a 3~6 month carousel. Fifty million sports fans wringing their hands in grief, being fed by perhaps a thousand circling 'journalist'-vultures, a steady dose of survival-worry in the spiral. All these elements feed on themselves, like sweatshop-labour in a decimated economy.

 

Que sera, sera..keep blabbin Ray..go have a beer with 'Dregs' of society, & work on next wk's rivetting angle. Got any medical panacea to sell me for the "aches & pains" of interminable boredom attributable to your sporting analysis? Here's some more digits in your bank book, part wisely with yer ill-gotten gains.

 

Too many interesting things happening in this crazy world. We all get squabbling & babbling about nuthin. All crap to pad bankbooks of former/once aspiring sporting schmoes who've never known existential-angst since they've been suckin Momma's teat.

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Its the easiest job in the world...

Find something people are unhappy about, and then find somebody to blame for it...

You should all know. After all a bloke south of the border just got elected like this.

 

Its easy to come up with the solutions from the 5th row, cause it doesn't matter if your right or wrong. 

 

To be honest I trust any coach, who has won championships to known more about coaching and the needs of his players, than any pen pusher, no matter how knowledgable that writer is...

 

Besides, actually think the swim or sink theory only goes so far...

 

 

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6 hours ago, VIC_CITY said:

 

You guys don't get it. Willie was told 2 things at the beginning of the year. 

 

1) Play a more defensive system.

 

2) Make the playoffs.

 

I think it's clear as day that we aren't making the playoffs, but WD is just following orders so he can save his ass. 

 

The only scenario where we would benefit from a different coach would be if Travis Green came in and was told that we are in a full rebuild and to ride or die with these young guys. 

 

I think I speak for the majority of Canucks fans when I say that we wanna see Horvat in an offensive role as 2C.

 

We want Stetcher/Tryamkin to play every game moving forward. 

 

We want Jake getting big minutes either here or Utica. 

 

We want Markstrom getting the majority of the starts.

 

And....we want a bloody firesale at the deadline! 

 

That should be the orders given from management and ownership needs to keep their mouths shut. It's time to do what's best for this franchise. 

 

End rant.

This is exactly what they should be doing. Ownership might say otherwise though. 

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11 hours ago, Honky Cat said:

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040-i-1410/ferraro-canucks-must-let-kids-play-through-mistakes-1.606278

 

Ray Ferraro gives some insight as to what the Canucks should be doing with their younger players..A lot of good points here...

 

He is totally on point. Enough about sheltering the kids but keep playing them. Willie is so scared of losing that he's losing.

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i do believe that the defensive structure they're playing is more jarvis than willie. oh how easy it is for ferraro, gallagher and us to sit here and say how things should be done. 

our opinions, don't make us right.  JB and TL have watched all the games, and i'm sure they know if the problem is coaching or talent level.  they want players to earn their ice time. you have to learn your craft in the development leagues. that is what they are there for. 

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8 hours ago, 5Fivehole0 said:


I'm officially down for a rebuild, but this is just...sorry, but dumb.

Henrik out produces Bo by a wide margin. What is 1st C? Bo-Ho getting 20 minutes a night? Why would Horvat get Hanks minutes? What has he ever done to prove he is a #1C? What has he done to say he is currently better than Henrik? Nothing, ever. Henrik @36 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Horvats career.

The reason they should get more or less the same minutes is because of the long-term needs of the team combined with their respective ages.  The Sedins are recognized as not thriving if they go above a certain number of minutes.  Bo also needs to keep developing. 

To be honest, I haven't seen a trustworthy statistic on how each produces per minute of ice time -- there are a lot of things to consider in such a statistic (quality of wingers, offensive starts, time on pp, etc.) but I do recall Horvat doing as well as the Sedins over large stretches of the last half of last year and pretty close to Henrik over much of this year. I'm not the first person to notice that Horvat often puts in fewer minutes than almost a third of the team, and that they seem to spend a lot of his minutes defending/pk/starting out with defensive zone face-offs.

 

People will rise to the occasion.  Another consideration is the relative weakness of the Sedins defending -- and this seems to be getting worse.  (Too slow for today's game, tbh.)

 

Rather than the word "dumb" I go with "too optimistic."  Which is how I see your optimism about Henrik's continuing dominance of the team.

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Moosecanuckle08 said:

Always respected Ferraros view on hockey. He's one of the most unbiased pros out there.

Agreed.  Though it's funny if he say's rebuilding on the fly doesn't work suddenly he's just another "media" idiot according to CDC.

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040-i-1410/ferraro-canucks-learning-that-making-playoffs-and-rebuilding-at-same-time-is-really-difficult-1.438460

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13 hours ago, pomorick said:

Willy this isn't a try or development league! Those are your words. Guess what we are tired of you trying to coach the Canucks and tire of

waiting for you to develop into a capable NHL coach!

I think afterthis road trip they need to free willy

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8 hours ago, 5Fivehole0 said:


I'm officially down for a rebuild, but this is just...sorry, but dumb.

Henrik out produces Bo by a wide margin. What is 1st C? Bo-Ho getting 20 minutes a night? Why would Horvat get Hanks minutes? What has he ever done to prove he is a #1C? What has he done to say he is currently better than Henrik? Nothing, ever. Henrik @36 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Horvats career.

You haven't watched Bo enough, have you?  He put up good numbers last year while playing a defensive role- he's much better offensively and he's shown that some of last year and so far this year.  Willie is holding him back, Bo can create offensive plays.  Bo can very much be a #1C in the near future if Willie (or whoever the next coach shall be) lets him develop more offensively and Bo could even be the next captain.

8 hours ago, Baggins said:

Is Ferraro is a succesful NHL coach?

An ex-NHL player that knows what players can go through.

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13 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

In order to be competitive teams need to develop players. You can do that in the ahl and (yes this is shocking) also in the NHL. 

When you develop players at the Nhl they will make some mistakes and it can cost you some games. But that doesn't mean a coach should be afraid to play them. A coach has to teach a player to learn from their mistakes so that eventually they make less. Having them sit and watching isn't teaching.  Having them scared to make a mistake because the will sit doesn't make them better. 

 

typically cup teams can afford to develop players in the ahl. They can win without those players and let them dominated the ahl before making the jump. But cup contending teams also can't afford too many young players making mistaking. cup contending teams #1 focus is to win and win now. 

 

Since rebuilding teams can't keep up with the skilled cup contending teams they can afford to develop players at the NHL level and get them a head start on Nhl experience. rebuilding teams main focus is to win in the future. Developing players to help them tomorrow is more of a focus. You can stay competitive and rebuild. You just have to be ok with the mistakes a young team might make. Mistake that may cost you games.

 

 

Contending teams and rebuilding teams have different goals. Contending teams success is based on team records and how far they made it in the post season. Rebuilding teams goal is based on how much progress young players made. 

 

With that said. What type of team are the Canucks?  

So at the end of the year will we look back and say we accomplished our goal? 

 

Which model should we follow. 

 

we didn't make playoffs but at least dorsett, skille and burrows tried hard.  

Or 

we didn't make playoffs but jake, Hutton, bo and Sven have sure made good strides at becoming consistent impact players.   

Every team wants to win games.  Whether they are rebuilding or contending.  A team is going to ice the best possible line up based on the players that they have.  Sometimes, the best player a team has available is a really young developing player (as we have seen with Bo Horvat, Jared McCann and Jake Virtanen).  Contending teams generally have the depth so that they don't have to expose young players during their early development stage where they are vulnerable to making mistakes.  Mistakes cost games.

 

I think that it was Benning's plan to have sufficient veterans on the roster so that young players weren't exposed to the NHL too early which could hurt their development.  

 

I think that this season, we are seeing that Virtanen is not playing like the player that they drafted.  He has gotten away from his game which says to me that his development has been hurt.  I want to see him in Utica.

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