DIBdaQUIB Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 50 minutes ago, 5Fivehole0 said: And what? Endure what Toronto/Buffalo/Edmonton have endured? No cups and a decade of mediocrity. All the teams that tanked and got a cup in the modern era. __________ __________ __________ Can't forget __________ You can say Chicago and LA, but I don't really remember them "letting the young guns take all the vets minutes", and even then, that's two of how many teams. Teams that haven't won a cup and are still unable to win a cup within the past 20+ years. New Jersey Carolina St. Louis Nashville Florida(Who have literally done nothing but tank and "let the young kids play" for decades. Columbus Minnesota Vancouver Toronto Montreal Ottawa Washington Calgary San Jose Colorado Dallas Detroit is only 1 year out Buffalo is AGAIN rebuilding after their times to shine with Hasek and Miller. How many of those teams have been bottom feeders for a few years only to reach mediocrity again? Detroit is an exception as they have always been mediocre with some decent play-off runs. Tanking doesn't always work if you force the idea that losing is okay and that ice time isn't earned. Then you have a team like Edmonton who finally is getting the idea that losing isn't acceptable. Not sure how you are making the jump to "tanking" or "Edmonton model" based on my suggestion WD adjust the allocation of ice-time. Tanking = losing on purpose. We are already losing, having recently lost 10 of last 11. Leaving things as they are does not appear to be addressing the problems this team has. Are you expecting the twins to suddenly get faster? Burrows to re-capture his 2011 form" Edler to finally reach his potential? Shaking things up and putting the younger players in key roles to try and turn this ship around can't hurt a team that is quickly falling off a cliff and it just might turn things around...the opposite of "tanking". As for the Edmonton model - bad goal tending, worse defence and a team where a bunch of offensively gifted draft picks were given senior roles and told to lead the team is nowhere near to what I suggested or what Ferraro is recommending. Giving the youth assignments conducive to them achieving success i.e. Bo in more offensive zone starts, pp time etc. - could stimulate the offence without having an adverse effect on the defensive game. This team is going nowhere with its vet group so it will need its youth to develop to the level where they can carry the play. They are not learning that by watching a bunch of has-been vets fail. They will make mistakes and at times it could be ugly but they will learn and grow and it will make them better players. WE may still lose most games but at least we are gaining by developing the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Fivehole0 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, DIBdaQUIB said: Not sure how you are making the jump to "tanking" or "Edmonton model" based on my suggestion WD adjust the allocation of ice-time. Tanking = losing on purpose. We are already losing, having recently lost 10 of last 11. Leaving things as they are does not appear to be addressing the problems this team has. Are you expecting the twins to suddenly get faster? Burrows to re-capture his 2011 form" Edler to finally reach his potential? Shaking things up and putting the younger players in key roles to try and turn this ship around can't hurt a team that is quickly falling off a cliff and it just might turn things around...the opposite of "tanking". As for the Edmonton model - bad goal tending, worse defence and a team where a bunch of offensively gifted draft picks were given senior roles and told to lead the team is nowhere near to what I suggested or what Ferraro is recommending. Giving the youth assignments conducive to them achieving success i.e. Bo in more offensive zone starts, pp time etc. - could stimulate the offence without having an adverse effect on the defensive game. This team is going nowhere with its vet group so it will need its youth to develop to the level where they can carry the play. They are not learning that by watching a bunch of has-been vets fail. They will make mistakes and at times it could be ugly but they will learn and grow and it will make them better players. WE may still lose most games but at least we are gaining by developing the future. I see you blaming Sutter, who is our best defensive forward. Henrik and Daniel who, once again, lead the team in points. I also see you saying Willie D needs to play kids like Tryamkin and Stetch more, who are playing 16-20 minutes a night. Horvat, Granlund, and Baertschi all play on the 2nd unit, if they were scoring more, maybe they'd be the first unit ;). I agree with you that Horvat needs to be able to grow offensively, he's a spark plug in the o-zone and I think would play well with Hank and Dank. But lowering Henrik and Daniels ice time and o-zone starts because fans want Horvat to get more chances isn't how hockey works. See, Henrik and Daniel have EARNED that ice and those starts. The kids haven't, and gifting them those because it could maybe make them better players is exactly what they don't need. My point is, if the kids don't need opportunities given to them, they need to make them. Starting Hank in the D-zone would probably end up in an offensive face-off, and that's what they want to see from the younger players, who play against lesser opposition than the Sedins. If they can't do that against the 2nd pairing and 3rd line, how are they going to do it against Kopitar and Doughty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, 5Fivehole0 said: I see you blaming Sutter, who is our best defensive forward. Henrik and Daniel who, once again, lead the team in points. I also see you saying Willie D needs to play kids like Tryamkin and Stetch more, who are playing 16-20 minutes a night. Horvat, Granlund, and Baertschi all play on the 2nd unit, if they were scoring more, maybe they'd be the first unit ;). Really. Sutter has the worst plus minus of any forward on our club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 2 hours ago, DIBdaQUIB said: regardless of where his paycheque comes from, he is one of the most unbiased analysts out there. How many of the posters on here have coached or played in the west (NHL). I would guess zero but they seem to think they all have more insight and knowledge that a proven NHLer. I find it quite funny that so many think that just because he isn't currently from the west that his years of experience amount to nothing. that is because once you leave and are not among the GM's most like 95% of people guess and to me yes he states problems well but other then that he does not know as much as people think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 2 minutes ago, 5Fivehole0 said: I see you blaming Sutter, who is our best defensive forward. Henrik and Daniel who, once again, lead the team in points. I also see you saying Willie D needs to play kids like Tryamkin and Stetch more, who are playing 16-20 minutes a night. Horvat, Granlund, and Baertschi all play on the 2nd unit, if they were scoring more, maybe they'd be the first unit ;). I agree with you that Horvat needs to be able to grow offensively, he's a spark plug in the o-zone and I think would play well with Hank and Dank. But lowering Henrik and Daniels ice time and o-zone starts because fans want Horvat to get more chances isn't how hockey works. See, Henrik and Daniel have EARNED that ice and those starts. The kids haven't, and gifting them those because it could maybe make them better players is exactly what they don't need. My point is, if the kids don't need opportunities given to them, they need to make them. Starting Hank in the D-zone would probably end up in an offensive face-off, and that's what they want to see from the younger players, who play against lesser opposition than the Sedins. If they can't do that against the 2nd pairing and 3rd line, how are they going to do it against Kopitar and Doughty? I think the Sedins at their age would be more effective if they played less minutes. Jut a reduction of 2-3 minutes pre game could increase their effectiveness. The twins have produced the most but they have also been put in the best positions to produce. Who knows if the kids could have produced more if given the same opportunities. It's not like our top line is lighting it up. Most of our other vets may have earned their ice time in the past, but certainly are not earning it at present. I don't really see it as "gifting" to the kids any more than the vets who aren't producing have it gifted. I see it as opportunity to learn and produce in a situation that provides a better chance of success. Put Tryamkin in front of the net on the PP...he did it in the KHL and what can it hurt? The PP sucks big time so sticking with what we have is futile. or put Bo there...big body with good hands. I am not advocating giving the kids the keys to the kingdom but that they should be given more opportunity than they currently are to achieve success. Instead of automatically putting the twins out for an o-zone faceoff after an icing, put Bo out. Scoring in the NHL is not easy and the only way our young guys will learn to do it consistently is to be consistently put in positions to succeed. Giving all that opportunity to the Sedins will pad their stats but it is not helping this team win now and certainly not in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 3 minutes ago, cripplereh said: that is because once you leave and are not among the GM's most like 95% of people guess and to me yes he states problems well but other then that he does not know as much as people think But I would bet he still knows a lot more than the posters on here that dismiss his comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 I would say he does but I do have a problem with him telling us what we have to do as he has never done it himself earlier today they said Quinn build this team with two good draft picks and trades,well I lived threw what he did and was more then that and I see benning close to how Pat though and is doing,just need owners to let him do a bit more of it and he knows more then Ferraro I knew it would work year ago as the team all had faith as a couple of the canucks were my neighbors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neko Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 About earning more ice time, Horvat has shown that he deserves to get more ice time yet keeps getting thrown under the bus. Sutter is more of a defensive player and is playing on the second line as an offensive role, this is a bit assbackwards if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 12 minutes ago, cripplereh said: I would say he does but I do have a problem with him telling us what we have to do as he has never done it himself earlier today they said Quinn build this team with two good draft picks and trades,well I lived threw what he did and was more then that and I see benning close to how Pat though and is doing,just need owners to let him do a bit more of it and he knows more then Ferraro I knew it would work year ago as the team all had faith as a couple of the canucks were my neighbors I personally don't get too concerned about how Ray expresses himself. He has always been forthright and adamant about his positions. I take it with a grain of salt. It is true he has never actually done it but after over 1,200 games in the NHL, I believe he has a pretty good eye for seeing what is happening on the ice, who is performing and who is not. I hope you are right about Benning. It is hard to see right now just what the plan is. A number of moves appear ill-advised (Vrbata, Eriksson, Vey,) but he has drafted some strong prospects as well. Time will tell but I still want him to let the kids out and for this time to get younger and faster in key rolls not just as supporting cast members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 5 hours ago, 5Fivehole0 said: If they were, tickets would still be being bought. The keyboard warriors who don't go to the games are fine with the rebuild, but the season ticket holders/buyers obviously aren't. It's pretty well known that Canuck fans are bandwagoners and will not support a losing team. This was evident in the dark ages when the franchise was almost lost. Well actually, this was badly planned by management. Tickets would still be bought if managment didn't try to fool the fans into thinking this was a playoff team and spent to the cap while still charging high prices. If they acknowledged they were rebuilding and didn't spend money on guys like Erikson and brought down the prices, I think the net income would be a wash for the owners. Yes they wouldn't have a high average ticket price but overall revenue (more seats sold at lower price) would be a wash and money could perhaps be made with reduced costs (like salary) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said: Really. Sutter has the worst plus minus of any forward on our club. seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 9 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said: seriously? 4.25 million for a 3rd line centre ( one goal this year ) that is minus 7 after 15 games. Yah, great pickup. Fire Benning today please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 41 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: 4.25 million for a 3rd line centre ( one goal this year ) that is minus 7 after 15 games. Yah, great pickup. Fire Benning today please. +/- is a terrible standalone stat, please, just stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 6 hours ago, DIBdaQUIB said: It's still losing. Are you suggesting the current path is going to fill seats? Depends on where the path leads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 2 hours ago, canuck73_3 said: +/- is a terrible standalone stat, please, just stop. OK - is scoring goals a useful stat..... 1 goal this year..... Tired of canuck fans supporting Sutter. Guy is just a brutal addition / contract for our club. Just stop please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 2 hours ago, canuck73_3 said: +/- is a terrible standalone stat, please, just stop. Yah, i am sure most teams are really hoping to load up on players that are on the ice for way more goals against than goals for...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 45 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Yah, i am sure most teams are really hoping to load up on players that are on the ice for way more goals against than goals for...... Seriously just stop you're bloody clueless. desiboy is that you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said: Yah, i am sure most teams are really hoping to load up on players that are on the ice for way more goals against than goals for...... Horvat is also -7 and had the worst +/- on the team last year. Guess he was a bad draft pick and he should be playing in Utica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Fivehole0 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 11 hours ago, kingofsurrey said: Really. Sutter has the worst plus minus of any forward on our club. He takes the most d-zone draws too. 9 hours ago, kingofsurrey said: 4.25 million for a 3rd line centre ( one goal this year ) that is minus 7 after 15 games. Yah, great pickup. Fire Benning today please. Already established that his contract is actually pretty much league average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 9 hours ago, canuck73_3 said: Seriously just stop you're bloody clueless. desiboy is that you? Just stop trying to defend the useless players that Canuck management have brought in. Too funny. Look at our team and just keep trying to justify the terrible contracts. Yah, a one goal for Sutter in 15 games is amazing. Do you think he will be selected to the All star game this year ? You crack me up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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