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[fan petition] please rebuild this team


Ted Lasso

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11 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

 

Ok, I understand where you are coming from.........not too far off what I think.......

 

Last night I was thinking that the next 2 years will bring us 2 - 1st and 3 - 2nds, without any trades or player movement, I would image that both years will yield top 6 picks and most likely top 4 picks both years, so we should have some very nice prospects to show for our futility...................

 

This is where we probably split, as I would vote to move an Edler, Miller,  Hansen, and possibly the Sedins on their last TDL...............

IMO that yields us substantial extra picks and prospects and further speeds up our rebuild

 

Matter of fact, if we could land a #1 line player, I would consider moving Tanev..............maybe not all of them, but the majority of those named, still have good value, and would substantially add to our rebuild, and because our team would be so young, we would still have very good picks, for even the year or 2  after the Sedins depart

 

So as much as I know, all of CDC thinks it is crazy to move all those players, and it would never happen. I feel that adding even 2 more 1sts and a 2nd in the next 2 years, is in the teams best interest..............

 

I am just so tired of seeing us waste assets and spending 2nd rounders............build through the draft is my firm belief!

 

I have no issue with moving Miller at the trade deadline, or any other pending ufa's. The Sedins won't be moved, as much as additional assets would be nice, players come along one in a blue moon that earn the right, and deserve the respect, to retire with the team they've done so much for. The Sedins imo, fall into that category.

 

Hansen and Edler I'm more inclined wait until they were pending ufa's unless somebody comes knocking with a great offer. Tanev on the other hand I'd be looking to move for a quality young forward this year. Really, have we missed him since he's been out? He's a rather one dimensional d-man and we have more D depth coming.

 

I have no issue with the 2nd's traded for Vey, Baertchi, Sutter and Gudbranson. They're all young and in Vey and Baertschi's cases good gambles. The picks included for Gudbranson and Sutter are for good veterans that help now and down the road. Picks are no different than players - they can be used as trade pieces to improve the team. If those 2nd panned out at all they'd still be years away from being any help at all. The one thing I'm opposed to is trading our 1st rounders.

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I believe Ferraro said it best - I'm just paraphrasing:  When teams are going through a low cycle, they have to rebuild.  Period.  Even if the team doesn't want to and they try to avoid it - they end up being forced into a rebuild.

 

So... that means saving picks and not trying to fill the cupboard with mid-20s and early 30-s talent.  Not trying to fill the gap so the team can be competitive.  It means selling off assets at the trade deadline.

 

Staying competitive and a winning environment.  All very good.  Except that it needs to be done with the young players.  Meaning they feel good about playing even if they lose.   Being proud of how they play.  I don't mind keeping the Sedins around, they are good mentors - excellent in fact - but by not playing the young players the team is not providing a competitive and winning environment for the young players.  Because they aren't a part of it!!!   And don't have prominent roles!!!!  

 

What is really going on is unknown, but probably they are looking to save their jobs (coach, manager, president) and that's all - and they value keeping their jobs over doing what is right.  Money trumps Truth (wait... this isn't an election post...)  

 

Anyways, the way I see it this organization is being held back by not rebuilding.  If you don't embrace the rebuild, then there is never anything in the rebuild to get excited about, making it last longer - like Toronto - 10 years of failing until someone got their head out of their ass.   JB could have had a young competitive team in 3 years.  So far he has wasted 2 of those years and we have F all to show for it really...  Forsling is a great example of the problems (not that JB couldn't see the value... but that he sacrificed it so he could save his job)

 

Trevor, JB:  get some guts and stand up for what you think right.  If you get fired who cares?  The alternative is to fail anyways...

 

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20 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

 

But as a manager, I feel you have to manage for today, and for the future.........decisions are based on age of equipment, market, production, return, future return, etc......sometimes borrowing money today for future markets tomorrow........but I have never seen managers just say "let our assets decay", let's not upgrade, lets not plan for the future..............this is very different than what a player thinks....very different

 

Players play for the day.......................managers manage for tomorrow!

 

 

Well-said. Like I've said a few times, both Tank Nation and the Playoff Nation have the same goal - the very first ever Stanley Cup for the Canucks. The execution is where the difference is, and for as long as the discussion is focused on the nuances of the approach, it's worthwhile reading.

Playoff Nation thinks that high draft picks are not needed to win and points to the Habs and Kings. Tank Nation thinks that high draft picks help a lot and points to the Penguins and the Blackhawks.

Playoff Nation thinks that trading away good players for picks is tantamount to introducing a losing culture that the current players will never recover from and points to the old Oilers. Tank Nation disagrees and also points to the current Oilers.

Playoff Nation thinks that delivering an untalented lineup will cost them the fans permanently. Tank Nation disagrees and points out that the season ticket count has already been decreasing tremendously.

Tank Nation thinks that management and ownership and players are anti-Tank. Playoff Nation agrees.

 

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12 hours ago, Baggins said:

 

I have no issue with moving Miller at the trade deadline, or any other pending ufa's. The Sedins won't be moved, as much as additional assets would be nice, players come along one in a blue moon that earn the right, and deserve the respect, to retire with the team they've done so much for. The Sedins imo, fall into that category.

 

It is a very romantic idea that elite players are not traded, but as much as I respect your opinion, there are just way too many examples of elite players being traded or in some cases not resigned....not to mention some just asking to be traded......the Sedin's are no different IMO

 

Quote

 

Hansen and Edler I'm more inclined wait until they were pending ufa's unless somebody comes knocking with a great offer. Tanev on the other hand I'd be looking to move for a quality young forward this year. Really, have we missed him since he's been out? He's a rather one dimensional d-man and we have more D depth coming.

 

With Hansen and Edler, you run the risk of them declining more in skill or just getting injured.......their value will ever be higher, and although just one year less, it would give any asset one more year to develop while we accumulate more picks

 

Quote

 

I have no issue with the 2nd's traded for Vey, Baertchi, Sutter and Gudbranson. They're all young and in Vey and Baertschi's cases good gambles. The picks included for Gudbranson and Sutter are for good veterans that help now and down the road. Picks are no different than players - they can be used as trade pieces to improve the team. If those 2nd panned out at all they'd still be years away from being any help at all. The one thing I'm opposed to is trading our 1st rounders.

 

Good point!................I always hated the Vey trade though, as it seemed it was more Willie's pick than Jim's............and I like Benning's drafting...........still a good point, though!

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well I keep saying it but we have in our system 25 players 25 or younger and that is a rebuild

 

do the math and look at who we have

 

when you rebuild you need players that can teach the younger players and that is why we have some older guys still on the team helps the rebuild which we are doing right now if people have not noticed

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On 11/14/2016 at 9:47 PM, icycold said:

3 years? What makes you so sure? Honestly we have some payroll raises but with miller and burr off the books next yr is a big chunk of salary cap to we have no problem spending to. What happens if Rodin gets back and lights it up as in the pre-season and Boeser does the same next yr?

 

I'm pretty confident on Boeser or Rodin on a line with Bo and Baer on 2nd line and Virtanen Sutter Rodin/Boeser on 3rd...

 

Leaves Guance,Dorsett, and Hansen on 4th

 

I have a hard time seeing those 4 lines "sucking"

 

Most people who are demanding a trade for another scoring forward may not even be needed if Boeser plays his game as normal. Pure scorer and not afraid to get into dirty spots to get goals. Rodin is much the same, plus both being very good skaters!

 

I think it's the opposite but then your only truth there kicks in... Twins gone and another huge shot of salary cap kicks in and i hope we get 2 bigger faster tougher goal scoring players take over on top line making it lethal is all i want.

 

We won't suck though...  quote me on that for next year... 

 

I agree with much of your optimism for Boeser and that going forward they won't necessarily suck.  I don't see that lineup dominating, either.  There will be more salary cap money, but we haven't seen that turn into game-changing players very often--elite talent is usually locked up before getting to free agency.  I'd argue it's the imminent improvement is why they need to not try to prop up this team right now.  There are maybe two years they will be able to draft top four or five and then the talent of Boeser, Demko, Horvat, hopefully-sorted out Virtanen and their improving young D will make lottery picks unavailable.  

 

I would feel better about it though if I heard some 2017-eligible juniors were starting to light it up and look like sure fire future stars.  Would suck to get the only first overall pick in franchise history in the worst draft of the decade.

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31 minutes ago, denniskearns said:

 

 

  Would suck to get the only first overall pick in franchise history in the worst draft of the decade.

Yes it would suck, but we won't know if this draft is good or bad for 5 years at least. Pundits have been wrong before and even then there are usually a couple of top notch players even in a bad draft.  I think the word "generational" gets thrown around way too much in the media and on the internet these days. 

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45 minutes ago, denniskearns said:

 

I agree with much of your optimism for Boeser and that going forward they won't necessarily suck.  I don't see that lineup dominating, either.  There will be more salary cap money, but we haven't seen that turn into game-changing players very often--elite talent is usually locked up before getting to free agency.  I'd argue it's the imminent improvement is why they need to not try to prop up this team right now.  There are maybe two years they will be able to draft top four or five and then the talent of Boeser, Demko, Horvat, hopefully-sorted out Virtanen and their improving young D will make lottery picks unavailable.  

 

I would feel better about it though if I heard some 2017-eligible juniors were starting to light it up and look like sure fire future stars.  Would suck to get the only first overall pick in franchise history in the worst draft of the decade.

The forward group is the biggest challenge with the Canucks at this point. Goal tending and d-core now have breadth and depth. You mentioned the only, hopefully, blue chip prospects in the org at Horvat, Virtanen and Boeser. The only one with any level of certainty is Horvat. This is pretty dire situation and it leds me to believe that Benning will in fact trade a current roster d-man for a forward prospect or draft pick. Many fans think it will be for an existing NHL player which might be what happens but I do not rule out a prospect or draft pick.

 

My thought being is that the Canuck situation will get even worse up front before it gets better. Knowing this timeline and willing to take fan flack Benning might bite the bullet and invest for a return 2 or 3 years down the road. IMHO the priority for the franchise is a timeline focused 4 - 5 years out. Acquisition of draft picks and prospects combined with development and assessment becomes more important than standings.   

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On 11/16/2016 at 7:30 PM, Salacious Crumb said:

It's so awesome to come here and read the informed opinion of fans who solely base their opinions on what Gallagher, Botchford, Pratt and Sekeres have to say. Makes me feel smrt.

you forgot lain mc   LOL!  but pretty much yeah...  i think it's for the ego boost of thinking their "informed" or in the loop so to speak. There's a few posters on here who think their own mind but not a lot, just enough to stay.  Most of the discussions are simply trolling but some are really well thought out.

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On 11/19/2016 at 9:35 AM, Boudrias said:

The forward group is the biggest challenge with the Canucks at this point. Goal tending and d-core now have breadth and depth. You mentioned the only, hopefully, blue chip prospects in the org at Horvat, Virtanen and Boeser. The only one with any level of certainty is Horvat. This is pretty dire situation and it leds me to believe that Benning will in fact trade a current roster d-man for a forward prospect or draft pick. Many fans think it will be for an existing NHL player which might be what happens but I do not rule out a prospect or draft pick.

 

My thought being is that the Canuck situation will get even worse up front before it gets better. Knowing this timeline and willing to take fan flack Benning might bite the bullet and invest for a return 2 or 3 years down the road. IMHO the priority for the franchise is a timeline focused 4 - 5 years out. Acquisition of draft picks and prospects combined with development and assessment becomes more important than standings.   

I think you either haven't done your homework on Boeser or you wouldn't say that, i'd bet Boeser does have certainty. It's not only his decent size and natural skill you can't teach BUT it's his attitude on the ice. He has that other gear and you can see it in his eyes when he's pissed off, not everyone has that capability or the maturity to control it  i.e. Virtanen  (maturity)

 

Speaking of Virtanen, all he needs IS maturity like any other power forward as in Bertuzzi etc...

 

I think this fan base forgets that part...  It's like a young guy trying to shovel a pile of gravel in 5 mins flat when it takes 30 mins, power forwards are especially thinkers like that but they need to find maturity at their own pace and take longer. That's all... 

 

But seriously, watch Boeser, there's tons of youtube vids on him and you can see all of what i mentioned. Actually i wish more people would do the same thing for Rodin, can hardly wait for him to be healthy and back in the line-up!

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On 11/19/2016 at 8:39 AM, denniskearns said:

 

I agree with much of your optimism for Boeser and that going forward they won't necessarily suck.  I don't see that lineup dominating, either.  There will be more salary cap money, but we haven't seen that turn into game-changing players very often--elite talent is usually locked up before getting to free agency.  I'd argue it's the imminent improvement is why they need to not try to prop up this team right now.  There are maybe two years they will be able to draft top four or five and then the talent of Boeser, Demko, Horvat, hopefully-sorted out Virtanen and their improving young D will make lottery picks unavailable.  

 

I would feel better about it though if I heard some 2017-eligible juniors were starting to light it up and look like sure fire future stars.  Would suck to get the only first overall pick in franchise history in the worst draft of the decade.

Well part of how you said spending the cap and it's never given us a game changer but remember how we were back end cap heavy?  that was for years and that hampered spending higher on forwards as other teams have and  that has only recently changing and same with goalies actually too.

 

FINALLY cap is coming available but the proper players who fit our role and line needs is another story, but only Benning or MG has wanted what this team has always been lacking, as in BIG TOUGH skilled forwards who can skate well. One "Kopitar" would certainly make a lot of people happy here. Can we get that?  well we can afford one soon (at least)

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