elvis15 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 2 hours ago, kingofsurrey said: Yah we know how that goes.... Vrbata and LE have both been such excellent UFA acquisitions.... Great approach to prop up our team so we can draft lower level prospects. Sounds like a recipe for long term failure.... Vrbata was the first year even if he didn't work the second. Eriksson has been a slow starter every year, and it isn't a surprise on a team having trouble overall. But your way is cool too, let's send all the prospects back to Utica and trade all our vets for picks so we can sign replacement level players. Or what is your plan exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 38 minutes ago, elvis15 said: Vrbata was the first year even if he didn't work the second. Eriksson has been a slow starter every year, and it isn't a surprise on a team having trouble overall. But your way is cool too, let's send all the prospects back to Utica and trade all our vets for picks so we can sign replacement level players. Or what is your plan exactly? My plan is to bring in UFA's on 1- 2 year deals only as needed. Play as many of the young kids as possible in all situations. Don't bench them for mistakes, work with them. Give them the freedom to make mistakes as long as they are learning and improving. Sell older vets for picks and prospects. Hire a GM that does not just want rejects from other clubs. Hire a GM that does not give crazy contracts to very average players... Hire a GM that values speed and grit / sandpaper in forwards... Hire a Coach that knows how to develop young NHL players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 3 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: My plan is to bring in UFA's on 1- 2 year deals only as needed. Play as many of the young kids as possible in all situations. Don't bench them for mistakes, work with them. Give them the freedom to make mistakes as long as they are learning and improving. Sell older vets for picks and prospects. Hire a GM that does not just want rejects from other clubs. Hire a GM that does not give crazy contracts to very average players... Hire a GM that values speed and grit / sandpaper in forwards... Hire a Coach that knows how to develop young NHL players. So put the kids in control and hope it doesn't break them before they have a chance to develop. Only sign non-rejects, who aren't very average, and only to 1-2 year deals, and for non-crazy contracts. Replace our GM and coach since the current ones apparently don't meet your criteria of bringing in speed/grit or developing young players even though we now have players like Virtanen and Gudbranson, and have given key roles to players like Horvat, Beartschi, Hutton and Stecher. People don't know what they want when they've already got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 How about I run the team. I think I could do as good of a job honestly. The only great moves have been Boeser, Tryamkin and Demko. Juolevi was a good consolation prize...I Wanted Nylander, didn't want Eriksson. Wanted to trade Hammer last deadline which would have probably kept is in last to second last place to draft a future star. The worst move was Ericksson... 6 years ? What a total bone headed signing for a rebuilding team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 1 hour ago, elvis15 said: So, we've lost some games and of course the sky is falling. Sure, it's never fun to lose.... Elvis, bud, I want the sky to fall and I want to lose. My biggest beef is if we aren't winning like they invested in doing and we aren't Manufacturing future assets then what the hell the hell is going on?! What the hell is our purpose?! Where are we? Like let's face our problems head on and getter done. Trading for a 20 goal scorer isn't going to work. A UFA 30 goal scorer didn't. IMO our offensive lacklustre is do to our lack of Mobility and creativity on the blue line. We can't acquire those guys. We need to develop our way out of this problem. Investing in today must must stop now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two drink minimum Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 On 11/12/2016 at 1:56 PM, Jam126 said: What else can they say? This market is not tolerant of rebuilds. Plus, playoffs were a realistic goal. But because of our scorers being dry (especially Eriksson), we aren't doing good. At least our D and goal-tending have been doing well. Its quite simple. They could say " We're going to focus on developing our young players. We're going to let them play and go through the growing pains necessary to be a strong contender for years to come once they're developed into top NHL players". Look at the plan laid out by Babcock and Lamoriello. They came out and faced facts that they needed to go down the road to recovery. Or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam126 Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 1 hour ago, two drink minimum said: Its quite simple. They could say " We're going to focus on developing our young players. We're going to let them play and go through the growing pains necessary to be a strong contender for years to come once they're developed into top NHL players". Look at the plan laid out by Babcock and Lamoriello. They came out and faced facts that they needed to go down the road to recovery. Or not Fans in TOR are going to come no matter how bad the team is. Fans in VAN have multiple options next door and don't stick with the team if they are bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Stammer- Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 I feel like we already are rebuilding, we're in the bottom 5 for a reason. Yes, we could blow it up at the deadline but still, we're not contending Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 team is already rebuilding in case you haven't noticed. Jake, Stech, Gud, Hutton, Bo, Gran, Sven, Trymakin, Gaunce and then semi young guys Markstrom and Sutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tavrohorvat53 Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 On November 12, 2016 at 8:51 AM, komodo0921 said: We are in a rebuild. More youth is being injected into the lineup and deals JB has made have been bringing in younger players that will fill key positions moving forward (with the exception of Eriksson). Bringing in Gudbranson is going to be a great move for the new core. Hutton, Stetcher, Tryamkin, Baer, Granlund and Horvat are all young. Boeser is probably in the lineup next year with Joelevi right behind him not to mention high picks we're going to get in the near future. Just because they haven't, straight up said they're rebuilding, doesn't mean that's not their focus. You say Vancouver fans have the patience to watch young players develop yet the stands keep getting emptier and emptier with every game. I don't see it. Watching on tv at home doesn't cut it. They are not foolish enough to believe the fans will keep showing up if they know the team is not going to do well on most nights. They are doing it exactly the way they have to in this city. With the utmost caution. i think the argument is more about the quality of players that we are filling those positions with moving forward. We definitely can't say we have enough higher end talent to make a difference game in and game out yet. Everyone is kind of average in their upside. Apart from Horvat, Hansen, Hutton among some others . Although the Baertschi, Granlund trade has stood out in a good way so far they need to produce every game to be the type of players you need to do any damage in the regular season or the playoffs. If they don't show that they can maintain good play in every game they play then they might be the guys we need. Its too early to tell. We should know what we have in them by the midway mark in the season. And the situation with Jake needs to get better. He needs to start showing why he was touted as a six overall pick. He was picked for his speed firstly then his hitting. His hands used to be pretty good too. Do we just need to let jake run free? Just let him be a wrecking ball creating turnovers and taking it to the net? thats how he needs to play. but Mr. Willie #### Dejardin has killed all of his tenacity and ferociousness. His hands have died as well. The guy needs to play. He shouldn't be benched if he makes a mistake or two or three. If the Vets aren't being effective in a game they young'ns need to play Willie. What do you have to lose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
komodo0921 Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 7 hours ago, Tavrohorvat53 said: i think the argument is more about the quality of players that we are filling those positions with moving forward. We definitely can't say we have enough higher end talent to make a difference game in and game out yet. Everyone is kind of average in their upside. Apart from Horvat, Hansen, Hutton among some others . Although the Baertschi, Granlund trade has stood out in a good way so far they need to produce every game to be the type of players you need to do any damage in the regular season or the playoffs. If they don't show that they can maintain good play in every game they play then they might be the guys we need. Its too early to tell. We should know what we have in them by the midway mark in the season. And the situation with Jake needs to get better. He needs to start showing why he was touted as a six overall pick. He was picked for his speed firstly then his hitting. His hands used to be pretty good too. Do we just need to let jake run free? Just let him be a wrecking ball creating turnovers and taking it to the net? thats how he needs to play. but Mr. Willie #### Dejardin has killed all of his tenacity and ferociousness. His hands have died as well. The guy needs to play. He shouldn't be benched if he makes a mistake or two or three. If the Vets aren't being effective in a game they young'ns need to play Willie. What do you have to lose? Benning's picks, in my opinion, are of higher quality than the positions they were chosen at. Boeser is proving to be a steal and should be in the lineup next season. The interest in him from other teams tells me a lot of managers see this kid in a brighter light than was expected. Demko is our future in goal and we grabbed Juolevi last draft, who is the player we need. I'm glad we have a GM who has the eye for talent and the vision of the team he wants and is willing to make a decision that may go against popular opinion in order to do what's right for the team. We are on track to get another high level prospect at the end of this season and I have full confidence that management will make another quality choice. Jake Virtanen is a victim of the pressure being put on management from above. Benning and Linden want to rebuild but ownership wants money. To me, JB took the only course available to hm by putting Jake right into the lineup in the hopes that he would shine, thus kick starting the rebuild and, hopefully gain a little traction with ownership to go in that direction. It worked for a while, but JV quickly faded and it became obvious that he wasn't ready for a grueling 82 game season. Now it's obvious that he needs to be in the AHL for a couple seasons to, properly develop, playing big minutes and gain the confidence to play with the big boys. I like the Gudbranson move and believe it will prove fruitful for years to come. I was just listening to 1040 where it was stated that Linden has been the fall guy for decisions being made by ownership. Do you think Benning's hands aren't being tied by the same decisions? I think he's done an admirable job, given the mess he inherited from the previous regime where NMC's were handed out like halloween candy to all who demanded them. It's crippled this team for years and will continue to, as long as we're still paying for Luongo's contract. I agree that this whole situation is frustrating but also believe blame is being placed on the wrong individuals. Not for a second, do I believe that this is what Jim and Trevor envisioned when they took their positions with the organisation. Ownership has ridden the Sedin money train for too long and it's way past time for change. I think the blame lies, squarely, on ownership and their need to meddle in things better left to the people they hired to do the job of providing a competitive team. As owners, they have the right to stay in the loop; I have no problem with this. But they should keep it to a yearly review to make sure their is a cohesive direction being taken and that things are moving that way. As long as everyone's in agreement, management should be, once again, left alone to continue. Until this happens, the Canucks will remain in a state of chaos and the rough ride will continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Rebuild is already happening, makes a petition pretty redundant and silly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_T83 Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 I'll sign that. We need an experienced GM with full control over the team to rebuild. I'd honestly like to see the Canucks try and trade the twins. And this isn't because they are bad -- I think they still have the potential to be at the top of their game. However, we clearly aren't going to win now, and getting some assets for them would be great. This would also give them a chance to be champions. We could retain 50% of their salary (this year and next year), making their AAV cap hit only 7 million combined for another team (very manageable). This could yield a huge return in terms of trade value. I'm sure a few teams would be willing to do this. Imagine adding the twins to your 2nd line for only 7M salary combined. That makes an already competitive team and instant Stanley Cup favourite. Deals like this could really net us a glut of top prospects and picks to rebuild over the next 5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Dear GMJB, Keep doing what you're doing. You've made great progress in two years. Some of us are patient enough to give it another, and some of us see what you're actually doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Deer onership, I wunt sum mor tikets 2 gamez. I lyk the Canukz! Thankz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 22 hours ago, LaBamba said: Elvis, bud, I want the sky to fall and I want to lose. My biggest beef is if we aren't winning like they invested in doing and we aren't Manufacturing future assets then what the hell the hell is going on?! What the hell is our purpose?! Where are we? Like let's face our problems head on and getter done. Trading for a 20 goal scorer isn't going to work. A UFA 30 goal scorer didn't. IMO our offensive lacklustre is do to our lack of Mobility and creativity on the blue line. We can't acquire those guys. We need to develop our way out of this problem. Investing in today must must stop now. So investing in our prospects that are making the NHL right now should go by the wayside as well? We should just forget about any of their development by surrounding them with decent players and hopgin we play good hockey? Because that's what the rest of my post you conveniently ignored was about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 3 hours ago, J.R. said: Rebuild is already happening, makes a petition pretty redundant and silly... Kinda like the multiple threads on this. A new one today!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 25 minutes ago, elvis15 said: So investing in our prospects that are making the NHL right now should go by the wayside as well? We should just forget about any of their development by surrounding them with decent players and hopgin we play good hockey? Because that's what the rest of my post you conveniently ignored was about. I don't believe in that whole winning in a heathy environment BS. There is absolutely no substance to that theory. The then young players on LA, Chi, Pitt, Ana, TB, Wash and the list goes on played on teams that sucked really hard. They became champions. A lot of champions will credit losing and hitting rock bottom to their success. Every second Cubs player brought it up in their post game 7 interviews. I will even argue that losing teaches you more about how to win then winning all the time. I know that sounds crazy but I honestly believe it's true. You learn more about your game in a loss. Even in real life, humans are always trying to correct themselves. Bottom line is there is no environment proven to make a player successful. It's up to the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 38 minutes ago, LaBamba said: I don't believe in that whole winning in a heathy environment BS. There is absolutely no substance to that theory. The then young players on LA, Chi, Pitt, Ana, TB, Wash and the list goes on played on teams that sucked really hard. They became champions. A lot of champions will credit losing and hitting rock bottom to their success. Every second Cubs player brought it up in their post game 7 interviews. I will even argue that losing teaches you more about how to win then winning all the time. I know that sounds crazy but I honestly believe it's true. You learn more about your game in a loss. Even in real life, humans are always trying to correct themselves. Bottom line is there is no environment proven to make a player successful. It's up to the players. I don't disagree you can learn from losing, but where we differ is learning from continually losing, and losing bad. That's what we'd be doing with a full tear down without some top level talent to replace people like the Sedins. Chicago and Pittsburgh were terrible until they drafted top level talent in successive drafts. We had a chance to do a short turnaround if we were lucky enough to get key picks the past few years, but the next couple drafts don't have the quality we'd need where we'd end up drafting to justify it. For every team that's done poorly only to come out of it winners with top level talent, there's 10 teams who've been losers for years and still had very little development and star players to show for it. No one way is proven, you're right, but some are more successful than others. In this case, a targeted rebuild is the way I support. Are we doing that correctly? Maybe not, but we are where we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doobiedoodoo Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Where do I sign? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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