We have a lot of second line players, but no first

[Derp...]

Just perusing the stats boards to see where the Canucks are standing league wide in a few areas. I know our goal totals are remarkably low, but after 17 games it seems a decent sample size to see where players are at. If we were to continue at our current production and other teams also did the same the Canucks would have 5 second line producers and 0 first line producers this season compared to the rest of the NHL this year.

 

We would also only score 169 goals this year.

While giving up 265... Ugh let's not go there quite yet.

 

Current League Scoring Positions

91. Henrik Sedin

93. Daniel Sedin

119. Bo Horvat

130. Brandon Sutter

175. Markus Granlund

 

First Liners

1-30 Top first line player

31-60 Second tier first line player

61-90 Third tier first line player 

 

Second Liners

91-120 Top second line player

121-150 Second tier second liner

151-180 third tier second liner

 

The good news is we have 3 legit second line players behind the Sedins at the moment. If hansen was playing I would say we have 4 actually. This is something the Canucks have been trying to get for a while. The bad news is the Sedins are leading the team in scoring, but at a second to first line tweener rate. As it stands I don't think we can maintain this abysmal goal production for the rest of the season something will change. When it does, if Loui Eriksson and the Sedins can get there production up to first line levels, we could actually see a team that has a normal first, second, third, and 4th line production for the first time in a long time. 

 

So what about the D?

Well as we know our D production has been sub par for a longish time now. I don't think that is changing to soon though. In terms of Offense form Defense this is where we rank league wise:

 

102. Philip Larsen

118. Troy Stecher

127. Erik Gudbranson

135. Luca Sbisa

154. Ben Hutton

171. Alex Edler

174. Chris Tanev

208. Nikita Tryamkin

 

First Pairing

1-30 Top Offensive Dman

31-60 Second level OFD

 

Second Pairing

61-90 Normal 2nd pair Offense

91-120 Decent 2nd pair Offense

 

Third Pairing

121-150 Normal 3rd pair Offense

151-180 Decent 3rd pair Offense

 

As you can see the Canucks don't have a top 3 offensive Defenseman this year yet. Stecher and Larsen are fine second pairing producers of offense for an average team. We need much more than that though. 3 goals from the whole D this year is pretty abysmal. Hopefully Edler can get some puck luck soon and pick up some points, and the same with Hutton. Sbisa and Gudbranson are producing at pretty normal shut down D rates which is good. The tough news is we have Hutton, Tanev, and Edler producing at 6th Defender levels.

 

Hopefully the D can pick it up soon, because we need to get the offense flowing from the backend. I would be opposed to putting both Stecher and Larsen in the lineup to see what happens. As a matter of fact I would like to see Subban get a look this year at least. Hopefully

 

Anywho if you read through this and found it interesting cool, if not no worries, just some rambles from a guy, who needed to ramble.

 

Derp...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

Not sure how accurate that assessment is.  You look at some of those Rangers players who have a crazy amount of points.  They are scoring out of their minds right now, but they still have first liners, second liners and third liners.  My point is that I don't think ranking by points is the best way to assess productivity.

 

In fact, there are many other ways to describe how this team sucks...

[SaintPatrick33]

This is what happens when an organization fails to nurture offensive talent. Yea sure, lets stick our top goal scorer and young talent Bo on the 4th line, moved up to the 3rd and rely on a few 35 plus year old players. 

 

This convo has been beaten to a pulp on these boards. Where is the leadership, coaching, goal scoring and future coming from? Yea lets ask Boeser and Demko go step right in as rookies and right this ship. Give me a break. Signing Loui, trading for Sven, trading for Gudbranson has not worked out thus far.

 

Maybe give it another 20 games? Come on bud sad to say but the oilers and leafs right now have much more potential and excitement than us. They righted their ships (without interference from their notoriously bad owners) and are now on the path to contending. Us? Well we are in bipolar mode, wishing for the playoffs but instead contending for the top pick in the next few weak ass drafts (BTW, we missed out huge due to luck and not realizing where we were at). 

 

So what is there to look forward to? Virt is kind of a bust. Bo is stuck playing checker's minutes. Once again rely on the promise of Boeser, Doemko and Joulevi even though they have not even played a game in the NHL. Meanwhile look at the Jets, leafs and oilers with all that firepower. Exciting to watch, and they will soon be winning games once they learn the NHL. 

 

Maybe another "bandwagoners" thread is in order, oh right they dont post after horrible losses. Talk about bandwagoners. 

[smithers joe]

i thought the team battled hard but in the end, they were just outplayed. rebuilding takes time.  sedins may be second line players, points wise but they are the most consistent players we have. the coaches don't want to rush horvat. i know some fans want him higher up the line up but the coaches are trying to build a complete hockey player. is he ready to move up? how would we know. ?  we just have opinions.

[smokes]

What scares me is that Horvat is pretty much the hier apparent for first line center duties.

[Lafayettecrossbar]

3 hours ago, SaintPatrick33 said:

This is what happens when an organization fails to nurture offensive talent. Yea sure, lets stick our top goal scorer and young talent Bo on the 4th line, moved up to the 3rd and rely on a few 35 plus year old players. 

 

This convo has been beaten to a pulp on these boards. Where is the leadership, coaching, goal scoring and future coming from? Yea lets ask Boeser and Demko go step right in as rookies and right this ship. Give me a break. Signing Loui, trading for Sven, trading for Gudbranson has not worked out thus far.

 

Maybe give it another 20 games? Come on bud sad to say but the oilers and leafs right now have much more potential and excitement than us. They righted their ships (without interference from their notoriously bad owners) and are now on the path to contending. Us? Well we are in bipolar mode, wishing for the playoffs but instead contending for the top pick in the next few weak ass drafts (BTW, we missed out huge due to luck and not realizing where we were at). 

 

So what is there to look forward to? Virt is kind of a bust. Bo is stuck playing checker's minutes. Once again rely on the promise of Boeser, Doemko and Joulevi even though they have not even played a game in the NHL. Meanwhile look at the Jets, leafs and oilers with all that firepower. Exciting to watch, and they will soon be winning games once they learn the NHL. 

 

Maybe another "bandwagoners" thread is in order, oh right they dont post after horrible losses. Talk about bandwagoners. 

 

I hear what you're saying but I wouldn't be so quick to point to the Leafs & Oilers and say that's how it's done. I'm not a fan of our owners either but Vancouver is not like Edmonton where they have a loyal fan base and a rich history of dynasty championships or Toronto, an original-6 team, which is also the biggest hockey market on planet Earth. 

 

Willie shouldn't have ever made it to the NHL, Virtanen should've been handled very very differently, some picks shouldn't have been traded away, and some FA's shouldn't have been given such expensive contracts. 

 

Other than that, I agree with the rest of your post. Except the bandwagoners part. If people are bandwagon fans I don't let that ruin my day.  

[Stelar]

We have 2 first line players (Hank and Danny), 1 second line player (Bo) and 10 fourth line players.  

[Rocksterh8]

38 minutes ago, smokes said:

What scares me is that Horvat is pretty much the hier apparent for first line center duties.

 

Thats embarrassing 

[LaBamba]

Offensive production determines where you stand in pairings eh? 

 

Larsen is our #1 d-man? 

 

Nice theory. Derp. 

[SaintPatrick33]

50 minutes ago, Lafayettecrossbar said:

 

I hear what you're saying but I wouldn't be so quick to point to the Leafs & Oilers and say that's how it's done. I'm not a fan of our owners either but Vancouver is not like Edmonton where they have a loyal fan base and a rich history of dynasty championships or Toronto, an original-6 team, which is also the biggest hockey market on planet Earth. 

 

Willie shouldn't have ever made it to the NHL, Virtanen should've been handled very very differently, some picks shouldn't have been traded away, and some FA's shouldn't have been given such expensive contracts. 

 

Other than that, I agree with the rest of your post. Except the bandwagoners part. If people are bandwagon fans I don't let that ruin my day.  

 

The Oilers had incompetent mgmt until Nicholson and Chia pet came on board. The Leafs were morons until they brought in Shanny and Lou Lam. It all comes down to who you hire. Remember we had the great HOF Quinn who gave us a winning atmosphere and a cup final game 7 appearance which your namesake reps. 

 

This Org right now has yet to yield to the new NHL, and it is a joke right now. Sign some old FA's, fail to stockpile draft picks, Virt is a bust, horvat is a Gillis pick, etc etc. Until we get the owners out of hockey ops, and have a GM and Pres who are commited to this new NHL, this franchise will continue to disappoint. Until then, I will continue to PVR games rather than pay for garbage. 

 

Regards, 

SP33

[drsofthands]

same with our defence

[combover]

The system the team plays has a lot to do with scoring. Not to mention the fact the opposition knows after the top line skill is lacking which makes it even harder for the top line to produce. 

A one line team that's been trying to play a more defensive game is naturally going to have lower totals. 

[Lancaster]

[189lb enforcers?]

Trade the Sedins and Edler.

 

Enough of the hangers on offering reasons not to, never mind the NTC vending machine GM's we've had; I get why we can't physically trade the gentlemen.

 

Thanks GMMG.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

Who needs 1st line forwards when we have a "foundational center"....

[DirtyYerocmai]

I dont really agree with those ratings of scoring meaning you are a top dman. We however should be really concerned about the complete lack of offence from our defence. 

[cripplereh]

6 hours ago, Stelar said:

We have 2 first line players (Hank and Danny), 1 second line player (Bo) and 10 fourth line players.  

I think Dank and Hank are now second liners at best,Bo is a second liner

 

we need a goal scorer to play with eriksson as he is like the twins and sets people up better then scores

[Derp...]

5 hours ago, LaBamba said:

Offensive production determines where you stand in pairings eh? 

 

Larsen is our #1 d-man? 

 

Nice theory. Derp. 

Only from an offensive standpoint. Didn't look at any defensive metrics. Honestly didn't need to, it's pretty easy to see we haven't had anyone play like a first pairing guy, just based on the offensive numbers they have put up so far this season. 

[Derp...]

1 hour ago, DirtyYerocmai said:

I dont really agree with those ratings of scoring meaning you are a top dman. We however should be really concerned about the complete lack of offence from our defence. 

Again this is a look at pure Offense, no d metrics were considered. We haven't had anyone play like a first pairing guy, just based on the offensive numbers they have put up so far this season. Doesn't mean the top 30 offensive producers are #1's just means they are producing at #1 offensive output so far this season.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Derp... said:

Only from an offensive standpoint. Didn't look at any defensive metrics. Honestly didn't need to, it's pretty easy to see we haven't had anyone play like a first pairing guy, just based on the offensive numbers they have put up so far this season. 

 

2 minutes ago, Derp... said:

Only from an offensive standpoint. Didn't look at any defensive metrics. Honestly didn't need to, it's pretty easy to see we haven't had anyone play like a first pairing guy, just based on the offensive numbers they have put up so far this season. 

You get called a DERP (what ever that is) and that's it.  We have Edler and Tanev as top pair guys, don't we?  Stecher is looking like a top pair guy.