firestorm238 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 8 hours ago, mrreindeer said: Its not so much its a big deal to send him down, he needs to play in Uttica for a while. The problem is that the people that are running this team don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. They say he's going down for 2 games and coming back. Then he comes back, doesn't play a game and they send him back down using some lame excuse he had to get his stuff. It's obvious nobody knows what to do with him so how is he supposed to know what they want. This team is already a laughing stock and moves like this just keep making it worse. I mean... it's also possible that he needed to get his stuff, and they wanted to pay him for another game at the NHL level. I really think the average fan doesn't understand just how much money the players make at the NHL level vs. the AHL level. That recall probably put something in the order of $40,000.00 extra (including per diems, etc.) in Jake's pocket. If he wasn't going to play anyways, he might as well go home pack his own stuff - and buy himself a nice new pick-up truck with the extra money he made for doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 38 minutes ago, Boudrias said: Danny has said that in the past but I agree. What bothers me more is poor play in the d-zone which never gets commented on. Much of the Twins comments is positive in an honest effort to shield the team from criticism. I feel sorry for them as they near retirement and the realization that a CUP is not in the cards unless they are dealt. I honestly hope that is the case and that they are traded to a contender next spring. I honestly think the Sedins deserve a shot at a cup. It would not affect my appreciation of their long service to the Canucks or diminish them in any way if they asked to be dealt. In many ways they have been under appreciated around the league their whole careers so ending without a cup only allows their legacy to be further dismissed after they are gone. It would probably help the team rebuild too but the main reason to consider trading them is for them in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, firestorm238 said: I mean... it's also possible that he needed to get his stuff, and they wanted to pay him for another game at the NHL level. I really think the average fan doesn't understand just how much money the players make at the NHL level vs. the AHL level. That recall probably put something in the order of $40,000.00 extra (including per diems, etc.) in Jake's pocket. If he wasn't going to play anyways, he might as well go home pack his own stuff - and buy himself a nice new pick-up truck with the extra money he made for doing so. This is a fair point. He would make more for those few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoseTruckWasIt Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 6 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: Please stop saying stuff. Haha....Willy is Vey's uncle. Hahaha. Stuff. Sbisa is terrible. Corrado's an asset. Am I doing the echo chamber correctly? We should get some really big tough guys on the team. Imagine? Hahahaha...be all like, welcome to the WWF mutha.....Pedan on the wing....we'll see if the Rags get 7 then hahahahaha.....Willy doesn't know tough.... Like, imagine 12 6'6 300lb guys. Oh my god....I'll just need a minute in the bathroom. Seriously though....stuff? What a joke. Stuff. Gimme a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 12 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said: Haha....Willy is Vey's uncle. Hahaha. Stuff. Sbisa is terrible. Corrado's an asset. Am I doing the echo chamber correctly? We should get some really big tough guys on the team. Imagine? Hahahaha...be all like, welcome to the WWF mutha.....Pedan on the wing....we'll see if the Rags get 7 then hahahahaha.....Willy doesn't know tough....stuff Like, imagine 12 6'6 300lb guys. Oh my god....I'll just need a minute in the bathroom. Seriously though....stuff? What a joke. Stuff. Gimme a break. Again. Breathe. In and out. Focus on a spot in the room and find your happy place. And stop SAYING STUFF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Four Sport Guru Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 19 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said: If Virtanen turns out to be good in a year or two are you going to come on here and say what an idiot you are? No? You'll be saying what a mistake they made by not developing him more quickly? You'll smugly mock line combinations without being at practice? Thought so. Hey, it's pretty easy to spout off about things that won't be determined for several years, it's just absurd, that's all. Do you think sending him down for 2 games, recalling him, sitting him and then sending him down is normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoseTruckWasIt Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Just now, PhillipBlunt said: Again. Breathe. In and out. Focus on a spot in the room and find your happy place. And stop SAYING STUFF! Hey man....we're just two guys looking for a vicarious experience of masculinity. No big deal. Now - quick take - what league does Willy belong in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoseTruckWasIt Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Just now, Four Sport Guru said: Do you think sending him down for 2 games, recalling him, sitting him and then sending him down is normal? We may be missing some information. There could be all kinds of reasons for coming back home for a couple of days, like a chat upstairs, or a personal thing, or a family thing, or a practice thing.....or the decision could be based on other factors and events. Maybe they were serious about him only having to go for two games, but they didn't like how he played. Maybe they did him a solid by letting him whip home for something. Like, who needs personal effects? He's supposed to be a robot, right, not a very young man? But whatever. We could always default to the assumption that everything these guys do is literally retarded, because that would be a killer way to aggrandize ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 11 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said: Hey man....we're just two guys looking for a vicarious experience of masculinity. No big deal. Now - quick take - what league does Willy belong in? Stuff. Okay, now that that is out of the way. I think Willie could use another assistant coaching gig in the NHL after this one. He was an assistant in Dallas before, so sliding into another similar role would probably be the most sensible trajectory. Regarding the vicarious experience of masculinity, are you part of one of the groups that sits around a fire and yells "Mama! Papa! I am Animal!"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasCanuck Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Best place for him right now. Let Green work with him a little and smooth out some of the rough edges and get him playing the game that the team needs him to play. No point in having him sit in the press box watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierdaddy Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 I like JV. I like GMJB. I dislike how JV has been handled by the Canucks since he was drafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoseTruckWasIt Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 6 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said: Thank you for this, Truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeser Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 My first post and as a bit of an "old timer" compared to many here (is my guess), I find the passion both great and at times funny! I notice a lot reading these boards and through the comments you can definitely discern a lot about people's biases! Firstly, to the "youngins" (and no offense intended), as you age one of the biggest mental abilities you can create for yourself is what's called emotional intelligence - it's knowing your biases and learning to separate yourself from them in order to be objective. Why I say this is I see a number of posts here that are not really very objective, full of emotion and really lacking a fair judgement on Virtanen to date. I understand a lot of people love this kid and I do too as he has all the tools to be a great pro but..... here's the kicker folks, he's just not ready. Here's my take: A. This "oh they are jerking the poor kid around" by sending him up and down is absurd. How many players have we seen this happen to over the years and across teams? It happens all the time. So is Jake "special?" No he is not. They called him back, maybe to get his stuff for a year organized because he's staying in Utica, likely as another poster astutely mentioned to have a face to face on why he's going down, what he needs to work on, and get him focussed. Heck last year people were "happy" for players like Gaunce and Pedan to come up and sit in the Press Box to earn an NHL check but now it's "jerking someone around?" - that double standard implies bias. B. Blaming WD is absurd. People keep saying he needs ice time. Again, is jake special? He doesn't have to show commitment on and off the ice and in game to earn it?!? This appears to actually be his ENTIRE issue, he doesn't seem to "get" how hard he has to work. Anyone can see WD has been reluctant to play young guys but when they show they can play he plays them. Bo, Hutton, Stecher, etc. People arguing Jake isn't getting fair treatment are not being objective. Many will say well look how long it took him to give Bo 17 mins a game- so what, the issue is Bo FORCED him to do it via his play. He EARNED it. Saying he's "confused", "over coached" is an excuse for his lack of effort. Who here has watched his games and HONESTLY said "wow look at how hard Jake is working, WD needs to play him more!" If you're being objective no one has said that, because Jake has not done so this season. Last year there were times, this year no. Effort is in jake's control. C. Look around the league at Jake's peers who are playing and getting ice time, watch the games. I notice Ehlers most games trying to create, I notice Nylander (who played a year and a half in the AHL btw) trying to create, I notice the kid on Detroit trying to create, and sure they are more offensively gifted but I NOTICE them. I have not once this year really noticed a "hell of a shift from 18" - Again, effort is really easy folks and in his control. D. Does anyone here really believe that Jake has done his utmost in whatever ice time he's received to make an impact? To force WD to make a tough decision? It's not about ice time it's what you do with it. Does anyone not notice how hard Bo plays every shift? How about Stecher? You "notice" them even if they don't score right? How hard they go into corners, how hard they are skating. Jake can be screwing up positonally but is so fast it wouldn't matter to the coaches (because they'd see the effort) if he used his wheels to recover, but he's doing NOTHING with his ice time. Does anyone really believe that if Jake was giving that 110% Bo or Stecher like effort (regardless of numbers) he wouldn't be earning more ice time? Especially given our lacklustre play? Effort doesn't require ice time nor talent it's in ones head. E. Jake is better off in Utica and should have been back in junior last year. He is not a bust and he is not screwed up by WD. What he is, is a young kid, who has never had to really outwork players as he's moved up the ladder because of physical gifts and talent and has assumed he's "made it". His reaction to his ice time shows his lack of maturity and a lack of understanding of what it takes vs what he's "entitled" to. His view on what he needs to do to succeed are clearly not aligned with the reality of being a professional "anything". Your place in this world is earned, you are not entitled or owed anything and that's what he's now learning the hard way. It doesn't matter where you are drafted, it matters what you produce with your opportunities. Anywhere in this world, a young kid when given an opportunity has two choices, understand you have a great oppty and work very hard - this then endears you to your bosses- regardless of outcome as all they want to see early is heart and drive, or think you've "made it" and be taught a lesson. F. Jake is simply a young kid who needs to learn how to "work" now. This is quite normal for most young people and a shock to many young athletes when they come up against 28 yr old men fighting for 400k a year on two way contracts. That being said, people here need to stop acting like he's Cam Neely because I remember watching Cam and it was clear the way he played the game, that with the drive and effort he had he would succeed. The Jury is still out on Jake, he has all the tools but does he have the will and drive to succeed and that is on him and THAT is why he has been sent down- he has not shown it YET to any serious degree. He is not being "jerked around", he's being treated like a man and a professional making 1 mil a year that needs to earn his keep, just like everyone else. If they treated him differently he would be getting 2nd line ice , pp time etc - which any OBJECTIVE fan can see he has not earned. That would be the wrong message to him and the team. Simply put, the effort has not been there, and THAT has always been in his control. Green will turn his game around but the Canucks are doing the right thing and it has zero to do with WD, JB, aqua man, and everything to do with Jake. You can blame others all you want for your shortcomings and lack of success but there's a point where you have to ask, have I been giving it my all? I think if Jake looks himself in the mirror and asks that question they answer is clearly no. Stop sulking Jake, man up, grow up, and compete. And if you cannot, you don't deserve to be in the NHL and sadly will not be. 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spook007 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 3 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: I think the worst thing for the team is to ignore when certain players keep making the same mistakes over and over again, especially for the reasons you suggest. That has been one of the biggest reasons for the apathetic play of this team many times over the past several years. I never said anything so ridiculous as bench them or take their letters away. But if they are so sensitive that they can't handle realistic criticism in the interest of making them think about improving too or recognize themselves that they need to be better then it is no wonder why this team cannot rise to the occasion most days. I know I am sick of hearing Henrik talk about the team needing to bury their chances when he really should say he needs to personally do so too. Markstrom lets in 7 and takes responsibility for it by saying HE needs to be better and would like a few of those goals back. That is a young player taking responsibility. Have you ever heard a Sedin actually take personal responsibility? Nope they talk about the team as a whole rather than say, "I know I need to start shooting when I have those opportunities. The team needs me as a top offensive player to bury those chances that could have changed the complexion of the game." It may be the politically correct approach but it certainly doesn't sound like they think they might be part of the problem with the offense. I would disagree. They get prime offensive time and despite their historical production (which doesn't and shouldn't make them exempt from producing now) they really haven't been generating much offense with that huge opportunity. Fair enough.... Well nobody knows what is being said behind closed doors, and I would not be surprised if the Sedins feel they are running against a bricked wall. However, I still believe you treat you greatest ever players with respect s long as stay with you. Otherwise let them go... I don't think there is much the coach can do exept maybe limit their ice time, but unless others show they are capable to step up to the plate that won't happen as long as the Canucks maintain they want to stay competitive. I don't see any other team taking the Sedins on, and also, if they left, it would mean the management admitted defeat in rebuilding the way they've been planning to do, and start tanking instead. There is nobody ready yet to lift the torch... (but that another debate). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 2 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: I honestly think the Sedins deserve a shot at a cup. It would not affect my appreciation of their long service to the Canucks or diminish them in any way if they asked to be dealt. In many ways they have been under appreciated around the league their whole careers so ending without a cup only allows their legacy to be further dismissed after they are gone. It would probably help the team rebuild too but the main reason to consider trading them is for them in my opinion. Believe everyone will accept and be happy for the twins, if they say goodbye with a cup. Can't imagine anyone more deserving around the league... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 21 minutes ago, spook007 said: Believe everyone will accept and be happy for the twins, if they say goodbye with a cup. Can't imagine anyone more deserving around the league... Even as they slow down, with the right linemate in a second line role I have no doubt they could be real difference makers to a cup contending team. If there are others to do the offensive heavy lifting even at worst just their cycle game hemming in the other team for their shifts helps their team win games. They have fallen off a bit in terms of producing quality chances off their cycle but their cycle game as a minute munching tactic would still be useful to a coach who recognizes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Quote Watching what’s happening with Jake Virtanen and the Vancouver Canucks brings up a personal pet peeve: that being sent to the AHL is a bad thing, a punishment. To steal a line from Dennis Miller, I don’t want to go off on a rant here, but it is not a negative for a 20-year-old, second-year pro to go to the American League. Somehow people have it in their heads that this is a failure for a young player. It’s not. Not even close. Not everyone is ready right away, not everyone can dominate so quickly. There is a long, long list of players who benefitted from being there. I don’t get this line of thinking and never will. - Elliot Friedmanhttp://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-will-nhl-walk-away-2018-olympics/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 17 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said: I think the AHL is the right place for Virtanen. Just like I thought junior was the right place for him last year. I think what has some upset is not that he is being sent down but the indecisiveness by management and coaching about it. He should have been there from the start of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck73_3 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Just now, wallstreetamigo said: I think the AHL is the right place for Virtanen. Just like I thought junior was the right place for him last year. I think what has some upset is not that he is being sent down but the indecisiveness by management and coaching about it. He should have been there from the start of the year. To be fair it was looking like the plan was to have him in the AHL then Rodin got hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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