Com'on people, 17 games, really

[VanGnome]

3 hours ago, Inge34 said:

I haven't posted in a while and will get flamed for this but who cares. Most won't even take the time to read this but here we go,

 

So the Canucks are 17 games in and so far,

 

1. We need to fire WD
2. We need to fire JB
3. TL is going to quit
4. Erickson is a bust
5. Virtanen is a bust
6. Gudbranson is a bust
7. We need to trade everyone away for picks
8. We need to buy out the Sedins
9. Why can't we do what Toronto did?

 

Holy crap are we the most ridiculously impatient fan base in sports. I would hate to be the one to tell you but we are not a good team everyone. We will not be a good team for 2-4 more seasons, not including this one. What did all of you expect from a bunch of young guys playing in their first years and another bunch of old guys near the end? We were a bottom 3 team last season and had no luck in the draft lottery. We are going to miss the playoffs and most likely be another bottom three team again and again and again.

 

We may be sellers at the TDL and we won't get "the value" for what we give up that most everyone thinks we should get. Why? Because our players are not that good or coveted by anyone.

 

Firing WD will do nothing for this team. Yes, he makes questionable line combos and lineups. Yes, he is trying to win. Yes, for some reason he has issues with Virtanen. But if you think another coach( Green, Jarvis, Roy, Hartley or whoever) will come in here and have this team win like what happened in Pittsburgh last season you need to check yourself in for some treatment. This team just doesn't have the finishing skill to get the job done and that aint changing with a new coach. Everyone is so hot for Green but tell me this, who has he developed in the last three years in Utica? Hutton? no. Horvat? no Tryamkin? no. Baertschi? no. Granlund? no. Stecher? not really. Oh I'll tell you, Guance and Markstrom, that is it. Now is that a reflection of him as a coach, probably not but is a reflection of the lack of talent that the Canucks are dealing with. So go ahead and fire WD, it won't make a shread of difference, this team has a huge gap in talent and it going to take time to fix this. It took Edmonton 10 years to get their team going, Calgary is still struggling even with their "great young players", same with Buffalo, Arizona and Columbus. Toronto has some good young players but they are still outside the playoffs if they started today. 

 

Firing JB will again set this team back another two-three seasons. He is slowly turning this team over and drafting and signing some decent young players. Aside from Edler, our defence is pretty young and will only get better. Our Goaltending looks to be pretty solid for years to come with Markstrom, Demko and even Garteig. His signing of high profile FA's has not been very good but really most of those types of players never really pan out for their new teams. Just google the last 5-6 years of FA signings and there are very few that change the fortunes of a team. His trading has been spotty and he has pissed off fans by saying "We are a playoff team" and they are not. "We are building through the draft" but yet trading picks and prospects for more developed young players. But realistically he had very little in the cupboards and on the ice when he took this team over. The worst thing that could have happened to him and the Canucks is that bounce back season after Torts. It fooled him, it fooled the core, it fooled TL, it fooled the Aqualinis and it fooled all of us. We are not that talented and it will be 2-3 years till we see some of these good young players (Virtanen, Boeser, Demko, Joulevi) show their stuff. 

 

TL is not going to quit. Freidman is a rumour monger and a hack of a journalist. I'm sure TL feels like quitting everyday, especially after being questioned by media and fans on a daily basis. He can't turn on the radio, watch TV,  or go to a restaurant without someone questioning him and his decisions. I know he took the job and this is part of it but holy moly lets wait this out and see what the hell happens folks.

 

Erickson, Virtanen and Gudbranson are not busts. Well they may be but 17 games into the season? Let's not check that one yet. Erickson is a solid two way forward who was never a star player, who will net you 20-30 goals a year. The problem was most of you were listening to 1040 too much. There was a lot of hype around him and the Sedins chemistry and the possibility and allure of 40 goal seasons. Give your head a shake, that has never been his game nor will that ever happen. Yes he is a minus 5 but there are 11 guys equal or worse then that on the Canucks right now, two of them being favourite sons Horvat (-6) and Hutton (-9). Yes we overpaid for him, welcome to free agency everyone. Virtanen story has been totally goofy this year. He should have started in Utica this season but unfortunately there was some injuries and that didn't happen. He is now where he should have been and hopefully he gets 18-20 min per game and can develop his game away from friends and the spotlight. Better late then never. Gudbranson is a solid, stay at home, take the body defender with some solid upside. he's young, big, physical and a good skater. Was he worth what we gave up? I say yes, you say no. We have a young and upcoming d-corp and he will be here for years to come. But he is -9!!! OMG, so is Hutton so he must be a bust too. This team is not very good and can't score goals. So when you don't score a lot and let in lots of goals guess what???? You lose a lot and have a lot of players in the minus. 

 

Let's trade the core players, buy out the Sedins and build like they did in Toronto. Well, aside from Edler, Tanev and Hanson who has any value? Sedins? Got value but no one will take both at 7 mil per season without us eating lots of salary. Dorsett? 5th rounder at best. Sutter? Not a lot of value there. Miller? He only wants to play on the west coast and besides LA who's looking for a rental goalie. Sbisa? Not getting much in return. We could trade some of the young guys but that only moves us back not forward. And who knows, we could move Tanev, Edler and Hanson for some picks, maybe a couple seconds and some AHLer's. But that is not going to change the fact that we are still 2-4 years away from getting good again.

 

We are rebuilding but like I said in the summer I don't think many of the fans have the stomach for a rebuild. We all want the quick fix, blockbuster trade that rips another team off and the franchise drafted player that becomes an instant star. We all want that, the problem lays that so does every other team and fan base. Let's settle down and try to enjoy the little things with the Canucks for the next couple years because that is what it's going to take to turn this team around, another 2-4 seasons. It's really that simple. Just thought I would point out some of the obvious to everyone, and no I don't have a plan to fix things cause I'm not a GM. 

 

 

Going to respectfully disagree with you on that. WD's erratic decision making and determination has a trickle down effect on the rest of the team as he sets the agenda. As a result of poor deployment, strategies and overall game plan, the team is ill prepared against just about every other team in the league.

 

The players are trying hard to follow the system, but it's obviously not working. The harder they try, the harder they grip the stick and the more they over think the game.

Firing WD represents a change of mindset, not about recovering the season. It's about a fresh outlook on the game, and the players being able to relax and play without worrying about every little mistake they make being magnified out of proportion.

 

I generally agree with the rest of your post, but firing WD will absolutely achieve results, they may just not be the results everyone is thinking of or expect.

It's also why I'm not a fan of bringing in Green or another rookie coach to take over. IMO a perfect candidate with experience would be Hartley, to transition this team while we rebuild. The team is not competing, and will not contend for a number of years. I'd like to see what someone like Hartley can do with the young players on our team now, and those to join soon.

[Dr. Crossbar]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

I guess because the only era we had that was a truly consistent Cup type team was with the .Twins, who we picked 2-3.  We know it takes those elite guys to really compete for Cups, and the higher the pick, the more likely the elite talent, no? 

That means we need to go from impatient to patient. Can we?

[Guest]

Bravo!  Bravo!  Bravo!  

OP, you got my vote for Prime Minister.  

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, VanGnome said:

 

II'd like to see what someone like Hartley can do with the young players on our team now, and those to join soon.

 

I'd be on board with Hartley, but also wouldn't mind Crawford back.  He had some very entertaining teams and really was productive in having 20-25 year olds come through and break out in the NHL.  

Either way, my preference would be to let Willie ride out the rest of the season.  Wouldn't be fair to the Tankers

[cripplereh]

so you are trying to get multiple - ???

 

The coach I agree with but rest you need to look and know this team is rebuilding and that takes time even if they think we should win most games have been very close

[Shirotashi]

OP are you high?...... right now? You take every complaint ever made, most of which comes from the media, and you say "the fan base" is impatient?

Remind me was it the fan base or was in management that said the goal was to be better than last year and make the playoffs?

Was it the fan base that made Eriksson under perform by literally everyone's expectations?

Was it the fan base that decided the whole "scoring goals" thing was passe and was not necessary to win games?

Was it the fan base that hired a defensive wiz for an assistant coach only to see us give up 3-5 goals a game?

Must have been the fan base that farted Virtannen around before FINALLY deciding to send him down.

Must have been US the fans that sat Tryamkin for so long when CLEARLY he belongs on the team.

Must be the fans that are making are hockey operations look like a circus.

Must be the fans that promised all this youth and "depth"(Jim Bennings words not mine) yet when we need to call-up suddenly no one is there.

 

We have every right to be impatient. Every. Single. Right. We were promised things we aren't getting and I don't think the Canucks are paying

my fycking cable bill are they? I haven't fully navigated this website so I don't know if theres a "reimbursement" section for the fycking Aquilini's

to pay my cable bill. Purhaps you could direct me. Until then ill keep paying my cable bill and being as impatient as I damn well please, because after

all these years of no cup and play-off failure I'm allowed to be impatient when we have lost 11 of the last 13. Choke on your pom poms.

[Dr. Crossbar]

2 hours ago, diesel_3 said:

 

Sometimes I wish I was like @apollo

The guy only sees the good...I'm just an old, bitter, jaded A-Hole who wants an entertaining hockey team win or lose.

Well, being that bitter, old, jaded A-hole can be fun and entertaining, too! Especially the older you get! You become your own comedian who doesn't give a frack about patience!

 

 

[WhoseTruckWasIt]

3 hours ago, Davathor said:

 

 

 

 

 

Can you post in a forum without coming off like a little B?

Fair ball.

[agent007]

6 hours ago, Run n Gun said:

Benning is not slowly turning this franchise around..  Move after move thus far has been bust after bust...  The fact that he thought that this was a competitive team speaks volumes about his competency as a GM

 

This is a competitive team hoe

[LaBamba]

Textbook win thread. Very inspirational. Everything is ok. 

[wai_lai416]

it's not really just 17 games it's been like this since the Torts day.. other than that 1 year we over achieved with lack and miller

[Chris12345]

I particularly agree with point 7. Why/how the Leafs traded Matthias and the Canucks didn't is nothing but sloppy management.

[Alflives]

Just now, Chris12345 said:

I particularly agree with point 7. Why/how the Leafs traded Matthias and the Canucks didn't is nothing but sloppy management.

That was our 101 point season.  Yes, we should have traded all our coming UFA's, but JB has a legitimate excuse for that TDL.  Although he should have made the trades anyway.

[iinatcc]

14 hours ago, Four Sport Guru said:

Willie has been a below average coach from day 1.

 

101 points in his first year coaching in the NHL I'd say he's ok 

[canucks411]

14 hours ago, danjr said:

Another thing that blows my mind is how much everyone has been pumping Gaunce's tires over the years.  Seriously why is he even on the roster, cause I haven't seen him on the ice.  I have seen a pylon wearing his jersey out there though.

I could not agree more. CDC was pretty horny over Gaunce getting NHL minutes. I haven't been impressed with him since day 1. I get it he's a 4th liner, but even so doesn't seem like he brings anything to the table (excitement, hitting, solid defensive play, etc). Albeit, I have most of the canucks on as background noise, but I'm not a fan and would like to see someone else in the system take his spot and see what they can do. What would be the harm?

[Phat Fingers]

11 hours ago, VanGnome said:

 

 

Going to respectfully disagree with you on that. WD's erratic decision making and determination has a trickle down effect on the rest of the team as he sets the agenda. As a result of poor deployment, strategies and overall game plan, the team is ill prepared against just about every other team in the league.

 

The players are trying hard to follow the system, but it's obviously not working. The harder they try, the harder they grip the stick and the more they over think the game.

Firing WD represents a change of mindset, not about recovering the season. It's about a fresh outlook on the game, and the players being able to relax and play without worrying about every little mistake they make being magnified out of proportion.

 

I generally agree with the rest of your post, but firing WD will absolutely achieve results, they may just not be the results everyone is thinking of or expect.

It's also why I'm not a fan of bringing in Green or another rookie coach to take over. IMO a perfect candidate with experience would be Hartley, to transition this team while we rebuild. The team is not competing, and will not contend for a number of years. I'd like to see what someone like Hartley can do with the young players on our team now, and those to join soon.

 

Gotta agree Gnome.

 

Everthing the OP alluded to is valid, but fans are justified in wanting WD to go.  We have nothing to lose by changing coaches.  Maybe someone else can get better results.

 

Unless this is a stealth tank with the plan to get Patrick all along and to rise like a Phoenix from the ashes next year with the Sedins playing out their final year.  

 

JB is doing well and the restocking has come leaps and bounds in only a few short years.  It would be a disaster to fire the best drafting GM this club has had since Burke stole the Sedins in 1999 when drafting is our only way out of the mess we are in 

 

Whatever WD's fate, it is safe to say that we won't be seeing him around for much longer. 

[RogersTowell]

6 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

 

Gotta agree Gnome.

 

Everthing the OP alluded to is valid, but fans are justified in wanting WD to go.  We have nothing to lose by changing coaches.  Maybe someone else can get better results.

 

Unless this is a stealth tank with the plan to get Patrick all along and to rise like a Phoenix from the ashes next year with the Sedins playing out their final year.  

 

JB is doing well and the restocking has come leaps and bounds in only a few short years.  It would be a disaster to fire the best drafting GM this club has had since Burke stole the Sedins in 1999 when drafting is our only way out of the mess we are in 

 

Whatever WD's fate, it is safe to say that we won't be seeing him around for much longer. 

I'm slowly coming around to the fire WD position, but I'm not quite there yet.  One 9 game losing skid doesn't make a season or break a career.  I'd still give it until Christmas to see what's trending by then.  If the team has turned around into a near 0.500 record over that time, I think you leave it as it is - that's about what you expect from this roster on paper.  If there's another long losing skid, you have to think it's time to pull the plug, but you don't make panic decisions on it over a fairly short term.  He's had a fairly decent record in his two years considering the injuries last season, but with an average number of injuries so far, we need to see some decent progress.  WInning four, losing 9 and 3-2 in the last five.  I think we might be seeing things settle down.

[Four Sport Guru]

37 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

 

101 points in his first year coaching in the NHL I'd say he's ok 

And a decline ever since. Kind of like getting a nice maserati and every day adding a teaspoon of sugar to the tank. It has gotten worse, not better.

[Phat Fingers]

10 minutes ago, RogersTowell said:

I'm slowly coming around to the fire WD position, but I'm not quite there yet.  One 9 game losing skid doesn't make a season or break a career.  I'd still give it until Christmas to see what's trending by then.  If the team has turned around into a near 0.500 record over that time, I think you leave it as it is - that's about what you expect from this roster on paper.  If there's another long losing skid, you have to think it's time to pull the plug, but you don't make panic decisions on it over a fairly short term.  He's had a fairly decent record in his two years considering the injuries last season, but with an average number of injuries so far, we need to see some decent progress.  WInning four, losing 9 and 3-2 in the last five.  I think we might be seeing things settle down.

 

 

There is is room on the Bus. I will save you a seat .  It's WD's deployment and lines that drive me crazy.

 

Our d pairings look good and make sense, but until very recently, his lines made little or no sense to me. His deployment was also dubious at best. 

 

I kepy waiting for his logic to win out, but it didn't. Instead he started using Horvat properly and moved Sutter up to play with the twins. Stuff posters her on the CDC figured out before the puck dropped for game 1.

 

Thats why WD is a lost cause to

me. As long as he is the coach, he may yet get out of my doghouse, but I am not a believer.  

 

WD

[Boudrias]

34 minutes ago, canucks411 said:

I could not agree more. CDC was pretty horny over Gaunce getting NHL minutes. I haven't been impressed with him since day 1. I get it he's a 4th liner, but even so doesn't seem like he brings anything to the table (excitement, hitting, solid defensive play, etc). Albeit, I have most of the canucks on as background noise, but I'm not a fan and would like to see someone else in the system take his spot and see what they can do. What would be the harm?

Gaunce is a NHL rookie. It could take most of the year before he gets settled. Not worried at all. He needs the TOI so keep playing him. This is not a playoff team so his ice is not hurting.