wallstreetamigo Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Just now, oldnews said: It's a team game. yawn you don't seem to understand the benefits of having that right handed release on the weak side - it opens up so much, including the points - and Sutter can shoot the puck, probably as well as any forward in the lineup. sorry, but the protesting undertone of everything you post really undermines how seriously I can take you. It implies you think you always know better than the players, coaching staff and management and I've never gotten that impression from what you post. I see the advantages to it. So do all the other teams in the league who have now figured out the Sedins rely on it. That is part of why they have become so predictable on the PP over the years. Especially when our team is not really effective at using the point to its advantage on the PP. We are talking about two very creative players in Henrik and Daniel who have become too reliant on their go to tactics on the PP. Their previous success with them is not in dispute here. Their ability to continue doing the same things expecting other teams to not catch on and counter is partly why there were so many playoff collapses for our team. I think given time to gel that Eriksson and the Sedins would be able to come up with a few new tricks on the PP. I would love to see a return to creativity and unpredictability from the Sedins. We know they have the talent for that. They just have to shake themselves out of the rut of doing the same things all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 5 minutes ago, oldnews said: It's a team game. yawn you don't seem to understand the benefits of having that right handed release on the weak side - it opens up so much, including the points - and Sutter can shoot the puck, probably as well as any forward in the lineup. sorry, but the protesting undertone of everything you post really undermines how seriously I can take you. It implies you think you always know better than the players, coaching staff and management and I've never gotten that impression from what you post. IN all fairness. We've ALL been saying the same things for years, they've yet to be addressed in more than partial measures and those same issues continue to grow. So in a sense we have seen everything tried BUT the things we keep saying so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rychicken Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Bro Jake + Jim Benning on the air at the same time is 84% of the reason for global warming..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 18 minutes ago, LaBamba said: What about the other 45mins? Seriously man, I love your optimism but you have a really hard time constructively criticizing this team man. We are one of lowest scoring teams in the league and you use things like low Shooting % as an excuse. Do you know how you increase your shooting %? Shoot at the net when you are directly infront of it. You make it sound like that low shooting % is from goalies making career saves every time they play the Canucks. We have a 1990's style D in a leaugue that is eating us up with speed. I'd agree with you LB, but it is a work in progress - and like I said the latest answers to your valid point would be Tryamkin's bomb from the point and Stecher's creativity - and willingness to shoot as well. I don't deny the constructive criticisms - I have my own and post them (perhaps in a more 'constructive' form than a lot of you guys lol). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Oldnews I am interested to see your take on the stats Sid posted about players numbers with Eriksson and without him. And your take on Eriksson in general. Do you think Sutter is a better offensive player? What are you basing that on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 20 minutes ago, oldnews said: There's another reason they've opted to use Sutter in that spot - aside from the fact he's an elite defensive forward and has been outstanding at retrieving pucks and maintaining possession (no step back from Loui in this respect). Sutter is that right handed release that they used to have in Kesler - which opens up lots of possiblities, including he one timer from the off side (we all know where Henrik sets up). Honestly - these micro protests over deployment are tiresome. The Canucks didn't simply sign Eriksson in order to marry him to the Sedins. Good point, and maybe the same reason Hansen has had success with them too? But what's the difference between the Sedin's-Loui having international success and now? Why not leave them together and let Bo and Sutter play together, which also seems to work well. Maybe its micro but I'm wondering why WD was so quick to break this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Gotta give credit to JB for rebuilding the backend. Two years ago, I didn't think it would be possible to rebuild it like it is now. I think he hit a home run with Tryamkin. According to this article (http://thecanuckway.com/2016/11/16/vancouver-canucks-nikita-tryamkin-making-strides/), Tryamkin is making even Sbisa look good. He has high corsi, he hits hard (for example, Jamie Benn is a big guy but was punished by Tryamkin), and makes smart decisions moving the puck. Once Tanev is back, I think Tryamkin-Tanev pairing will definitely need to be considered, which would give Tryamkin a bigger role. Also, no one expected Eriksson and Baertschi to struggle scoring like they do now. My guess is that they will get better and the whole team will perform better. Rodin getting injured also didn't help; because he already missed so much time to injury, he probably won't be able to contribute much this season even if he comes back. I think JB improved the team in various ways and went in to the season with optimism but somehow, some of the offensive pieces are underperforming at the moment (system? coaching?), so I think it's unfair to blame him for the team's troubles now... The only blame that he deserves is regarding Virtanen's development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weasel Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 23 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said: But this makes no sense when you watch them play together on international teams. Why not just let them figure out their timing and positioning for smaller ice? Willie D needs to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon45ca Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 20 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: Don't forget choking in game 7 of the SCF. Oh, I didn't realize they were the only ones playing that game...huh. Learn something new everyday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 3 minutes ago, Warhippy said: IN all fairness. We've ALL been saying the same things for years, they've yet to be addressed in more than partial measures and those same issues continue to grow. So in a sense we have seen everything tried BUT the things we keep saying so.... On this particular point - I think Kesler was a somewhat ideal third forward for the Sedins on the powerplay - fast, good in the hard areas, and with a good right handed release that opened up the weak side and created more space for the Sedins and the point. Sutter is imo a very good V2.0 of that (and Honey Badger aint so bad either). I have absolutely no criticisms of playing Eriksson with the Sedins - in any situation - but I also see why they'd opt to rotate Sutter, Hansen and Eriksson in those roles - and home/away, the opponent, etc also play into these decisions imo. I just don't value the reductive and oversimplified protests (let alone the tone) to every micro-move in the lineup - and therefore out comes the old crust lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 4 minutes ago, falcon45ca said: Oh, I didn't realize they were the only ones playing that game...huh. Learn something new everyday! With the advantages of being your best players and counted on almost exclusively for your teams offensive production, not to mention being leaders, comes a reasonable amount of the responsibility when you are shut out in a game 7. They can't get credit for the successes without taking responsibility for the failures too. The Sedins were a big part of the issues in the finals as they were (somewhat understandably) trying to play for the PP. They couldn't take advantage of that at critical times though like they had an awful lot that season. It it is not all on them of course. But to point out how they have won this award or that international championship without also admitting their failures on the biggest hockey stage is too rise colored and myopic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 2 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said: Good point, and maybe the same reason Hansen has had success with them too? But what's the difference between the Sedin's-Loui having international success and now? Why not leave them together and let Bo and Sutter play together, which also seems to work well. Maybe its micro but I'm wondering why WD was so quick to break this up. I think it's because the team has been struggling to score - so they're exercising their options. I have no problem with using Eriksson with them but it's hard to argue with the results Sutter has been getting with them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 1 minute ago, oldnews said: On this particular point - I think Kesler was a somewhat ideal third forward for the Sedins on the powerplay - fast, good in the hard areas, and with a good right handed release that opened up the weak side and created more space for the Sedins and the point. Sutter is imo a very good V2.0 of that (and Honey Badger aint so bad either). I have absolutely no criticisms of playing Eriksson with the Sedins - in any situation - but I also see why they'd opt to rotate Sutter, Hansen and Eriksson in those roles - and home/away, the opponent, etc also play into these decisions imo. I just don't value the reductive and oversimplified protests (let alone the tone) to every micro-move in the lineup - and therefore out comes the old crust lol I can't argue it, but we've seen the last 4 years throw everything BUT what is needed at the walls in hopes it sticks. None of the right stuff has sadly. Can't argue with Sutter Hansen etc but the absolute lack of any production off of the back end and unending forcing 2 way play has completely killed the offence of this team Whether that's coaching or roster. It's not a good recipe for success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denniskearns Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 2 hours ago, stuman491 said: I think the whole idea is that "stereotypical" leaders look like Linden did after our 94 run. Playing hard nosed hockey all the time. I think the Sedins are great leaders, but not in the way we remember the great captains of the past. They are not emotional players and I think a lot of the captains we remember were. Perhaps this is why Luongo was given the C before Henrik was. This is an interesting point. The Sedins are great role models in the community--they give hugely to the Children's Hospital, they don't cheap shot or respond when taunted by other players in the media--but would you see Smyl or Linden or even the hated Messier just take repeated punches from Marchand in an intense finals game? Yes, the refs were derelict in letting it happen, but at that point you have to do something if only for the morale of your team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Goose Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 16 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: The right handed shot defense really only opens the same old tactics the Sedins repeatedly go to with diminishing effect in recent seasons. It points more to the Sedins being unwilling to adjust even though it is painfully obvious that is a key to improvement with how predictable and ineffective the PP has been for years now. If you don't think Eriksson was signed to play with the Sedins both 5 on 5 and on the PP then you missed the whole Radim Vrbata scenario. There was no reason to sign Eriksson to not be with the Sedins or in a prominent PP role, especially at that term and cap hit. Plus, as much as I like Sutter as a player, Eriksson is a much better long term option on the PP. He has proven just how effective he can be for several years. You seem so set in your beliefs despite the fact Sutter has been playing very well with the Sedins. 17 minutes ago, J.R. said: Offensively, he's REALLY good at counter punching. That's the strength of his offensive game. He's also pretty good in his own end and creates offense transitioning from it. Sounds to me like WD is playing him to exactly his strengths and the twins to theirs. What he needs to do is move Baer off his line. Although I think WD is trying to avoid adding too much responsibility to Horvat given what happened last year, I'd love to see him test out a Eriksson, Horvat Hansen (when he returns). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSVII Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 Standard interview, he said a lot of things i expected him to say. So pretty much meh. that being said, two things didn't sit well with me. 1.) Giving Utica call ups the priority over waiver wires - waivers are very situational, if a good player (Parenteau/Griffiths) is on there, you pick them up. It costs you nothing. utica right now is struggling, let them keep their players and develop down there. Anyone we call up now is basically a 4th line grinder at this point. 2.) Harder to develop players on the west coast than east coast - Can't buy that, Anaheim has a great farm in San Diego and just sounds like an excuse to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 1 minute ago, oldnews said: I think it's because the team has been struggling to score - so they're exercising their options. I have no problem with using Eriksson with them but it's hard to argue with the results Sutter has been getting with them.... Actually your right handed shot option above explains it well, thanks. I've decided not to argue with you and get humbled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 8 minutes ago, khay said: Tryamkin is making even Sbisa look good. I hate that kind of crap tbh. Sbisa has looked good all year - Sbisa actually propped up Larsen and enabled him to do what he does by providing a solid stay at home presence for him. The Vancouver talking heads will be scrambling to rescue the absolutely horrible 'analytics' and projections they've dumped on Sbisa for the past few years - and the attempt to credit Tryamkin with Sbisa's development is just more weak crap from that 'community'. Tryamkin is and has been great. But Sbisa deserves credit of his own accord. He's not a product of Tryamkin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denniskearns Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 4 minutes ago, SILLY GOOSE said: Although I think WD is trying to avoid adding too much responsibility to Horvat given what happened last year, I'd love to see him test out a Eriksson, Horvat Hansen (when he returns). Yes, and hopefully give them offensive zone starts Willy seems reluctant to give Horvat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuck2288 Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 3 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: I am not naive enough to think Desjardins is the only problem but he is a problem for sure. His decisions are counter productive to what this team needs to do. If you are going to ride the Sedins then ffs put Eriksson with them and leave him there to find his way. Get him on the PP with them too because he is a better bet presence than anyone he uses in that role. Double shifting Jack Skille ffs????? He is a throwaway much like Vey was before him. Give the opportunity to people who can maybe do something with it and who are in the plans of the team going forward. I agree WD does not have a lot to work with but that is not an excuse to do NOTHING his lines and player choices are always head scratchers. Dorsett, Skille his game management is terrible. Bad line changes, never works the refs like the good coaches. Stands there with zero pulse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.