wallstreetamigo Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 4 minutes ago, LaBamba said: If Horvat doesn't take the Defensive draws then who will? I get what you are saying but we just don't have the depth to pull it off. We don't have that Richardson or Malhotra to take the load in the D-Zone. I like the Sedin's taking all the O draws. That's how they thrived in the past under AV. Bo will get his chance. Sutter is the guy to use in those defensive situations. No one is saying don't use Bo there. But lightening that load a bit in favor of offensive deployment can be made up for with Sutter. The Sedins still need offensive deployment to be effective but that doesn't mean they are as effective as they used to be in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyg43 Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 1 hour ago, iceman64 said: what on earth would another coach do with this team? until next year and the year after with cap space, we have what we have, which is a few fries short of a happy meal... Hmm good one Now the trick is to promote it as healthy an good for you. Go at it marketing folks . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 On 11/18/2016 at 8:31 AM, Ossi Vaananen said: Benning is on 1040 right now. I'll add notes and a link when they update. Notes: - on Jake - step forward on recent roadtrip. 'since already out there go play a few games in Utica, get confidence' - arrived in time on Sunday, healthy scratch on Tuesday. Met as group, best thing is to learn in Utica. Play minutes, develop. - Harder to develop young players in west coast (less practice time). - Want to be competitive, compete for wild card spot. Get to net, score more goals. Still solid defensively. - Offense has to come from Eriksson, Baertschi, group effort. Burrows is looking better. - Sabres/Canucks rumors (Kane) - 'wouldn't talk about players from other teams (lol)' - Wants to add forward with speed/skill - Stands behind Willie. Losing Hansen/Tanev tough, still competing. 'Keep monitoring' - Dorsett - needs testing - Miller - just has flu, backup tomorrow. - Tanev - hasn't skated yet, 'couple weeks, no firm timeline' - Rodin - skating before group, roughly 3 weeks out - On Defense - have depth, rebuilt entirely. Young, strong group. Use depth on blueline to add forward (!!) - On waiver players - look at every player, can he help? If yes, pick him up. Likes depth, Megna/Chaput playing well. - Give chance to Utica players over waiver wire - Rebuild while trying to be competitive - drafted well, more depth. tricky waiting for players. - On fans wanting complete rebuild - references contracts, Sedins, teach others how to be accountable, win. Feels the fans understand what he's trying to accomplish, 'no apologies'. Good young players in system, some develop on team. Good team in future. LIking how he wants to give minutes to Jake in the minors, I think that's the appropriate thing to do and overdue for his development. While I'm liking some of the roster players in place (Bo, Rodin, Sutter, Sven, Granlund, Tanev, Stecher, Tryamkin, Gudbranson, Markstrom for the future), and I'm also fine with his desire for the team to compete as that would likely lead to a more entertaining on-ice product, I hope he does this without adding major assets for major futures (in fact, optimally they would sell off vets for premiums to transition youth in where possible), and I hope the team drafts as high as possible (ergo lose competitive but close games). In his defense I must say that it's a tough line to toe, since teams rarely undergo rebuilds without experiencing major growing pains (both in the team culture and the fan base), but with the reputable vets at the helm to insulate the youth in the short term that should at least help them transition in better. Given where the vets are (1st liner Twins, solid complementary vets in Hansen, Burr; 1st D-man in Edler, #1 goalie in Miller) I think this is honestly as close to a strip-down of the roster as possible without outright exposing the kids (1st line/ 1st pairing/ starting goalie minutes should only be taken by players who are ready for it IMO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guntrix Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 3 hours ago, Comet Fan 0727 said: You do realize that Kane has played 6 games, has 1 secondary assist, and is a -6 right? Not sure how we would trade for him unless Buffalo eats some of his cap hit. I wouldn't give up Spiza for him straight up. So let me get this straight, after a few broken ribs CDC gives up on Kane after 6 games but gives Virtanen over a year of leeway for a dislocated shoulder despite proving to be utter trash every time he plays for us? Yep, typical CDC. 1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said: So in your mind he is worth his cap hit to us? He has played a high of 65 games in the past 4 years and his highest point total in that time is 35. Not exactly screaming out "Solution to the Canucks consistency or scoring woes" to me. He is incredibly overrated in terms of actual production for what he is paid and all of the attitude and off ice issues. If in Benning's mind, a declining 31 year-old Eriksson is worth 6 million x 6 years, then a 25 year-old Kane is definitely worth 6 million x 2 years. Also, not sure why you stop short at four years when you know full well that he logged 57 and 43 points before that. Even if you use the 4-year parameter, you'd still be wrong as he logged 41 points three years ago at 22... probably better than most of CDC's self proclaimed world beating prospects save for Horvat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 9 minutes ago, guntrix said: So let me get this straight, after a few broken ribs CDC gives up on Kane after 6 games but gives Virtanen over a year of leeway for a dislocated shoulder despite proving to be utter trash every time he plays for us? Yep, typical CDC. If in Benning's mind, a declining 31 year-old Eriksson is worth 6 million x 6 years, then a 25 year-old Kane is definitely worth 6 million x 2 years. Also, not sure why you stop short at four years when you know full well that he logged 57 and 43 points before that. Even if you use the 4-year parameter, you'd still be wrong as he logged 41 points three years ago at 22... probably better than most of CDC's self proclaimed world beating prospects save for Horvat. Eriksson had a 30 goal year LAST YEAR and has consistently been a productive player. He is also not a locker room cancer. If if you really believe anyone is only looking at 6 games this year to pass judgement on Kane you clearly haven't been paying attention. Paying to get Kane based on what he accomplished many years ago when combined with how little he has accomplished since is a recipe for disaster. He as shown an inability to be a consistent offensive performer, plays 3/4 or less of the season due to injuries, has a huge cap hit for (in your estimation) a 40 point player, has legal troubles, has been a proven dressing room cancer, and can't keep his mouth shut. Whats not to like? If Benning trades for him he instantly wipes out any lingering credibility when he says that teaching the young players to play the right way and be a positive character person, players need to earn what they get, etc. are how they are building the team culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 If we are pinning our hopes on Evander Kane suddenly changing pretty much everything about who he is as a person and a player in order to get us to respectability, then honestly we just need to tear it down and start over. I have never ever seen a more desperate idea on CDC and that's saying something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 54 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: If we are pinning our hopes on Evander Kane suddenly changing pretty much everything about who he is as a person and a player in order to get us to respectability, then honestly we just need to tear it down and start over. I have never ever seen a more desperate idea on CDC and that's saying something. It certainly is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 2 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: If we are pinning our hopes on Evander Kane suddenly changing pretty much everything about who he is as a person and a player in order to get us to respectability, then honestly we just need to tear it down and start over. good thing that's not remotely representative of why you'd take a chance of a bear asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 3 hours ago, LaBamba said: If Horvat doesn't take the Defensive draws then who will? I get what you are saying but we just don't have the depth to pull it off. We don't have that Richardson or Malhotra to take the load in the D-Zone. I like the Sedin's taking all the O draws. That's how they thrived in the past under AV. Bo will get his chance. That's exactly what we brought Sutter in for no? Why are we trying to force Bo down a path, why not let him hit his own potential Sedin's aren't the players they were in 2011 are they? Unless we plan on riding the sedins for the next 5 years it's time to start the transition and I don't know about you but bo it the best thing we have in our system to plan around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 3 hours ago, CaptainLinden16 said: You do have to admit that Bo plays with Horse blinders on in the offensive zone. The guy doesn't pass much. I have seen him take mason raymond esque laps in the offensive zone. I am not sure that you can change much of that. If you want him to be a better offensive zone player than he should be the linmate for the Sedins. He plays almost exactly like Kelser. Kesler was awesome with the Sedins. i for one would love to see that. Burrows and Hansen are three times the players they were after playing with the Sedins. I have seen Hansen saucer passing, and burrows and Hansen play such a smart positional game in the offensive zone. That to me is true developement. You play your highest potential player with your best players. You learn from plays on the ice in game way more than you do from practice. The only point of transitioning or retooling is if we partner our veterans with our young players so they can learn and get better. I don't agree with those blinders. Last year we saw the chemistry between him and sven, Bo has great vision, but when the players you are playing with aren't finishing, you then start to try and take things in your own hands more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmm Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 3 hours ago, J.R. said: See hlinkas post below yours. You're right, he's only 21 and has plenty of time still to find his own ceiling. Completely disagree he should be getting 50+% ozone starts. A bit more pp time I could see but that's tough when most of the time the twins have possession in the ozone for over half the PP. You want them to just throw the puck back to Markstrom so they can change? Was that a serious question? I might need to check with Old News on whether that was a straw man comment. PP or not some teams make changes while pressing in the O-zone. I think the trick is to change one player at a time and not all 5 at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 21 minutes ago, oldnews said: good thing that's not remotely representative of why you'd take a chance of a bear asset. I don't see any good reason to take a flier on Evander Kane. The risk far outweighs the potential reward, especially at that cap hit for another year. The only way I would take him is for next to nothing going the other way and quite likely expecting some salary to be retained to put him in the proper salary bracket for the few sure things about him. I don't think he adds anything we don't already have there to develop in Virtanen for much cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 41 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: I don't see any good reason to take a flier on Evander Kane. The risk far outweighs the potential reward, especially at that cap hit for another year. The only way I would take him is for next to nothing going the other way and quite likely expecting some salary to be retained to put him in the proper salary bracket for the few sure things about him. I don't think he adds anything we don't already have there to develop in Virtanen for much cheaper. Well first of all Virtanen is a right winger where Kane is a left - so you're apples and oranging - kinda like the idea we already have Tryamkin, why would we need Gudbranson. Salary retention could very well be an expectation of any deal - who knows - I find the panicking over what media talking heads attribute to straw Jim entertaining though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 1 minute ago, oldnews said: Well first of all Virtanen is a right winger where Kane is a left - so you're apples and oranging - kinda like the idea we already have Tryamkin, why would we need Gudbranson. Salary retention could very well be an expectation of any deal - who knows - I find the panicking over what media talking heads attribute to straw Jim entertaining though. I wasn't talking position but skill set, but I think you knew that before presenting your own strawman on me there I am not really panicking at all. Benning will do what he does for good or ill. I am merely giving my opinion that adding Kane at any price is a desperation move that really solves nothing short or long term. Unless he suddenly becomes not only a consistent player but a completely different person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 5 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said: I wasn't talking position but skill set, but I think you knew that before presenting your own strawman on me there I am not really panicking at all. Benning will do what he does for good or ill. I am merely giving my opinion that adding Kane at any price is a desperation move that really solves nothing short or long term. Unless he suddenly becomes not only a consistent player but a completely different person. Meh. I'm not going to pretend to forecast the future. Kane certainly could add 'something' - whether or not he remains as advertised, who knows. Some young men change, some don't. I'm not going to pretend to know him either, and a few hearsay accounts don't really sway me one way or the other either. Position certainly matters. The possibility of rolling a line with Kane on one wing and Virtanen on the other - if a person can't see why a hockey person would consider that, that's their prerogative. But there are always the underlying complaints around here that the team is too nice, the team gets pushed around too much, the team doesn't have pushback - so if they're considering someone that isn't a boy scout, perhaps they've been swayed by all the whining in the fanbase. (and like the point about B-otch, don't be daft enough to take that literally.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: I don't agree with those blinders. Last year we saw the chemistry between him and sven, Bo has great vision, but when the players you are playing with aren't finishing, you then start to try and take things in your own hands more. Added to that, Bo hasn't had the greatest linemates. Burrows has improved and Bonis finding him with passes. Baer has been ice cold. Would love to see Eriksson with Bo. Can't blame the guy for taking it to the net when he gets the chance, maybe he can create a garabage goal with the guys that he normally been saddled with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 3 minutes ago, oldnews said: Meh. I'm not going to pretend to forecast the future. Kane certainly could add 'something' - whether or not he remains as advertised, who knows. Some young men change, some don't. I'm not going to pretend to know him either, and a few hearsay accounts don't really sway me one way or the other either. I never said any of that. I said I see the risk of that not developing as hoped to be more significant than the possibility it will. I personally know two NHL players who have played with Kane. I can tell you that his reputation is not simply hearsay. I don't expect you to take that as gospel of course but based on things I have personally heard, the rumours about him and his effects on a locker room are pretty accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Latest report from Mackenzie says any trade talk around Kane has ceased. With all the drama just surrounding the speculation I am glad it seems to have died. Hopefully it does not get revived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 I think the team needs the skills and presence of a guy like Kane for sure. I just don't think they need Kane himself to fill that especially with all the other baggage that comes along with him. As you like to say, that is a strawman in suggesting I am saying we don't need the skill set when I am clearly saying we don't need the player himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 1 minute ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said: Latest report from Mackenzie says any trade talk around Kane has ceased. With all the drama just surrounding the speculation I am glad it seems to have died. Hopefully it does not get revived. I would not be surprised to see this trade happen to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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