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[Discussion] An Open Letter to Our Beloved GM with a Blue Print for the Rebuild


Byrix

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1 hour ago, Chris said:

I personally don't agree with moving Burrows or Hansen, although I do think if the price is right...Hansen should be given the chance to fight for a cup.

 

Burr should be allowed to finish things out here/fight on a PTO in my eyes, he's earned that much from Vancouver.

 

 

Point well make. You are right. I'm sure nobody will mind taking just the cap space at  the end of the season.

 

Just trying to remind everyone that cap space can be traded and it has value. When opportunity arises, I guess.

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It's rare that this message board gets a well thought out post with clear explanations on why the moves are good ones. Great post.

 

I am pretty excited for the times ahead, but at the same time I'm worried with what is happening in the organization. There's players like Boeser, Juolevi, Stecher, Demko, etc who you think are solid to be Canucks for the long run. Besides that, it's hard to really see who has the potential to truly be a top player.

 

Horvat is obviously a great player already, with an even higher ceiling. The guy straight up hates losing as well, and is super emotional when he scores. Top quality, captain material player.

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2 hours ago, Byrix said:

Dear Mr. Jim Benning,

 

I was just listening to radio and I've heard that you are in a bit of hot water recently. There are disagreements with your boss, headaches with your coach and disarray with your players.

Since it seems that the decisions on how the team should be run are made on a  day to day basis by reading this forum, I'm going to post a generic S.O.P. for rebuilding a team here(with yours as an example) and hope you read it when you have time.

 

1. Decide to rebuild and convince your boss to agree with you.

A compelling reason you can use is that if you start the rebuild and give the fans a sense of direction and hope, they might buy more tickets to watch an exciting young team working hard as opposed to this current team that needs to play dull and defensively to be competitive and still looses at the end of the day. 18 games into the season, it's pretty obvious this team needs change, this city needs hope, and this team needs to sell some more tickets(now and hopefully for the next 3 years).

 

2. Apologize to your veterans.

As you said on radio, there's no need to apologize to fans. You are right. You need to apologize to Daniel and Henrik Sedin. Just call up the twins and tell them that you are sorry about selling them on this re-tooling process and it is turning into what really is a rebuilding process. If they are on board with being the mentors on a rebuilding team, great. If they are not, please respect their wishes and trade them to a contending team at the deadline. Also call up the guys who are on long term bad contracts, apologize, tell them to enjoy the cash and the rest of the bumpy ride.

 

3. Identify Pieces

To do this, set a goal on when you want to be good. Let's say we want to be good when 2020 rolls around. What age do you want the oldest core piece on your roster to be at that given year? Take this birth year and count 6 years down inclusively. In my case, I picked 22 years old now and at 2020, that should be 26. Then, the range of the core players age should be between the birth year 1994~2000. Everyone on the roster that's outside of that range can be moved. Now, before you actually start making the trades, you can always come back here and adjust the blue print. However, once you start doing trades, stick with this. In negotiation, there's always a temptation of throw in a pick here and a pick there to get things done. Just say no. Trade goes both ways, there's a need on the other side, too. With all the things you've said on radio, I think you've set that age at 24, which is not wrong, but I drew that one out a couple days ago, and the player quality you have right now is just not good enough compared to other team's 24,25 year olds. Move that age bar down to 21,22, I think you'd have a case, but you still need to add and upgrade.

 

Let's put them into categories and pencil them into line-up projections at 2020:

Core Pieces

Brock Boeser - 1st Line RW

Bo Horvat - 2nd Line C

Jake Virtanen - 2nd Line RW

Olli Juolevi - Top4 LD

Nikita Tryamkin - Top4 LD

Troy Stecher - Top4 RD
Thacher Demko - Starting G

 

*Brandon Guance - 3rd Line C

*Guillaume Brisebois - Bottom Pairing LD

There's going to be prospects that belong to this age group, but are longer shots to become productive regular NHL players.
I put * beside them, they are movable, but should be held on to and see what they develop into.

There are more in the system, but I'm not going to list everyone because, at this point, we have to accept the fact that they are unknowns.

 

Then, we look at the pieces that are stuck here(untradable or unlikely) and has no trade value what so ever and where they'll be at 2020:

Stuck Pieces

Loui Eriksson - 3rd Line LW,RW

Henrik Sedin - Retired

Daniel Sedin - Retired

Brandon Sutter - 3rd Line C

These pieces are you mentors or teachers on this team and this current group needs to get more vocal. Not a big problem, but something to keep in mind later.

 

Since Everyone else could be moved as trade pieces, there are some that are more valuable than others. This following catagory can be moved if and only if the player coming back can be added to the core group. Otherwise, we are fine with them staying on the roster as well. When their contracts are up, please, please don't over pay and make them become stuck pieces.

Must Return Sell Pieces

Sven Baertschi - 3rd Line LW

Markus Grunland - 3rd Line C,LW

Anton Rodin - 3rd Line LW, RW

Chris Tanev - Top 2 RD

Erik Gudbranson - Top 4 RD

Ben Hutton - Top 4 LD

Jacob Markstrom - Starting G

 

Now the next group needs to go sooner. The return might be lower, but they need to go to open up roster spots and cap space to sign your core pieces. Some of them were core pieces from the last era and it'd be very emotional for them to go. However, this is the tough decision part of the job. Let them go at or even a bit lower than market price.

Sell Pieces

Jannik Hansen - 3rd Line RW on a good team. Find a team with a need to add play-off depth.

Derek Dorsett - 4th Line RW on a good team. Find a team with a need to add play-off depth.

Alex Burrows - 2 options here. 1.Let his contract expire and use that cap space in the off season. 2.Trade him to take on a bad contract and get a young core player in a salary dump deal.

Alexander Edler - Top 4 D on a good team. Find a team with an injury problem at the deadline or a team that needs a veteran presence on their top4 and bring back a young prospect and a place holder player on expiring contract.

Luca Sbisa - Bottom pairing D. He actually has an ok contract and at 26. There's probably a taker if you are not asking for too much. Wonder if you can get a 3rd rounder for him and a place holder guy back?

Alex Biega - If you can't move Sbisa, move Biega to a team that needs someone to expose to the expansion draft. 

 

Fire Sell Pieces

Philip Larsen - Bottom pairing D. Recover anything, just anything would be good.

Ryan Miller - Trading deadline. Again, 2 options. 1. Find a team with cap space, trade him for a pick. 2. Find a play-off team buying goaltender, take a bad contract back and a young prospect.

 

4. Identify the targets

You need to add a lot to your core group. Since we have narrowed down what we are looking for in our core group, it's not hard to target players.

 

a. 1st Line C - These guys are hard to come by. Most likely you'd need to draft one. If you trade for one, probably need to send out one of those MUST RETURN pieces.

My suggestion is pencil in your 2017 first round pick to do this with Patrick, Vilardi, Mittelstadt, Rasmussen? one of those. Do what you do best, scout and find the one that will pan out.

Make sure this guy is a good passer AND a scoring threat. You not only need a guy that can feed Boeser, you also create space for Boeser because you don't know if Boeser's skating at this point can create enough separation to get his shot off in the NHL. If you want to go the EXPENSIVE trade route, here are some targets(I just don't know if you have enough sell pieces to get any of these):

Reinhart(BUF)

Draisaitl(EDM)

Barzal(NYI)

Brown(OTT)

McLeod(NJ)

DuBois(CBJ)

 

b. 1st Line LW - Ok. You can go power or you can go skill with this one. Again, needs to be a scoring threat. Scoring threat+passing skill? or Scoring threat+physicality. Again make sure he can skate and has speed. Some names out there that can be asked about:

Nichushkin(DAL) - currently in KHL. He's not playing with the Stars, should be cheaper than other prospects?

Drouin(TBL) - showed well in the playoffs last year but not doing much now.

Dal Colle(NYI) - stuck in the AHL?

Ehlers(WPG)

Conner(WPG)

Perlini(ARZ)

Crouse(ARZ)

Svechnikov(DET)

Nylander(BUF) - Yes, don't go after Kane. Ask about Nylander.

The list goes on and on, do your scouting homework. You should know these players better than I do.

(jumping topics a little here) Recently, there has been news AGAIN about Evander Kane. Kane is not a character you want in your locker room. If you are looking to take both Kane and Nylander back on the deal with Kane as the place holder player and Nylander as the main piece to bolster your core group, then that's a long and hard MAYBE? Then Kane should be flipped at the draft after a miraculous character transformation with some home cooking. (ok, back to 1st Line LW)There are some more names in the 2017 draft as well like Vesalainen, Pettersson, Strome, etc. which you need to get a mid-1st round pick to take. Keep that in mind too. It's a good idea to get 2 of these guys if you can, you also need a 2nd Line LW. Which ever one trickles down there will be fine.

 

c. Top pairing RD - Probably need to draft one. Just as if not more rare than a 1st line C. In 2017, probably only Liljegren fits the bill, but that'll mean that using your 1st round pick on him. Meaning you probably have to trade for another high pick in 2017 draft to address the 1st line C issue or wait til 2018 to do that. You could try trading Hutton for Trouba, but unless you feel like dealing with his power ball agent, it's probably not worth the trouble.

 

The big idea is to ADD to your core group so you get to 6 top 6 quality Forwards, 4 top 4 Defences and 1 starting Goaltender. Right now it looks like you do have some pieces to play with. Keep your draft picks and keep on upgrading your core. You are right about addressing the LW issue first, because it looks like the easiest to do. The other 2 positions you need are extremely difficult to fill. However, you are looking at 23~26 year olds, I'm suggesting you look at 20~22 year olds. Another thing that you'll notice is that there are several teams that keeps on popping up with a plethora of players in that age group, Arizona, Buffalo, Winnipeg, New York Islanders...? Compare prices, see if you can make them bid up a bit. Call and bluff. Don't be too honest on the trade front.

 

5. Get 1 or 2 More Vocal Mentor on the roster

It's hard to get everything in place in one swoop. In trades, you might need to take back a bad contract, but make sure we don't end up with a cancer in the locker room as well. Identify good character guys on bad contracts. Also, look for vets in the FA pool when summer comes. Sign mentors, teachers, character guidance during the summer. Don't run out and sign a 30 goal scorer over 30years old just for the goals. Ops, you just did last year. Never mind. Learn the lesson there and live with the fact that he is stuck for now. Keep the term short and keep the cap hit low. Along with the players who are STUCK here, you need to create a positive environment in these couple year. Guys like... hum... Hamhuis? Ops... sorry, you lost him last summer, too. This is not too big an issue while the Sedins are still here compared to other problems you are having, but still one or two more vocal veteran presence would be needed to back up the twins.

 

6. Hire a sensible coach

Since you are in rebuild, take winning is a bonus. So, get a coach that really knows the players and is willing to spend the time developing them. A coach that can identify the players' strengths and design a winning system according to that. Now, you should know you are in trouble when your coach tells one of your core young power forward,"Just play your game, be physical" and "Stay on the right side of the puck, stay in position, don't hit a guy because they'll get 2 on 1" at THE SAME TIME. That's a coach so desperate that he's trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Simply put, your coach is turning your 1st round pick into a 3rd round pick while wasting a year of development time. When at happens, it's only the beginning. He will destroy more young player's confidence, next thing you know, you'll have to send your young 2nd pairing D to the AHL to develop. Huge waste of time. Just answer this one. We all know that this team has trouble scoring. But, where are you in the Goals Against rankings compared to the league this season with this coach's defensive "structure"? Your current coach is employing a system that can't defend, can't score and doesn't fit your group of players. Waste of time. If a coach is wasting my time, my players time and at the same time is deteriorating my assets? As a GM, this coach should be gone in 5 minutes, not in 20 games.

 

7. Hire some experience help

One thing I like to do in a GM position is to bring in my teachers and mentors as an senior assistant GM or an senior operation advisor. It makes the decision making process much much faster and things go much smoother. These are guys that has been at the GM position at a long time and are now half-retired. These are guys that can just listen to your idea and tell you what will likely happen 10 steps later. These are the guys usually misses their job as GM but can't take the rigorous day to day workload health-wise. They are about 10~20 years older than you. Look for one and listen to what they have to say. You'll be surprised to find out how much knowledge they can offer you. I know we already have Smyl and Weisbrod, and all the respect to them, but they have 2 years of hands on GM experience between the 2 of them and those were in the NBA. I just looked up Scotty Bowman and he is still a senior advisor for Chicago at the age of 83. Look for some help.

 

8. Know when to quit

If you are still reading this, I'd like you to know that I thank you very much for having an open mind. So, if all this blue print mumble jumbo doesn't make sense you and still believe trying to make the play-off with empty seats is a long term goal, please sign that piece of paper called the resignation letter. Because the bottom line is that winning mentality goes from top down. And if you want to make the play-offs, aim for the Stanley Cup. That's what winners do, they aim at the grand prize, so even if they fall short, they still land respectably. This team is a joke. This re-tooling on the fly is a joke. At some point, you got to tell your boss "Today is the day I stop embarrassing myself, and stop putting my reputation on the line for an illusion."

 

At the end of this long long rant, I leave you with my favorite quote in sports business.

 

"You are either a championship team or you are rebuilding to be one."

sorry, I forgot who said that.

 

 

Finally, thank you for your time.

 

 

 

from someone who spent 3 hours on a break from running his own company to write this...?

 

 

 

 

...

...

...

OH SHOOT! and of course I forgot....

*Sign Your Core Pieces Fast*

Don't wait til off season, don't use that whole season to evaluate. If the piece is eligible for RFA by July 1st, you should have signed him by March. Dragging everything into the summer is going to create a lot more uncertainty and you will pile yourself with too much work at that time. Lock them down early. They will thank you for doing it early. They will hate you if you drag it long and make them feel unwanted.

 

I like your tenacity and you make some good points

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What Benning really thinks and what he says on the media are two different things. 

 

I'm pretty sure he's tactful enough to sugar-coat the situation to give the media enough to do their job.

 

What goes on behind the scenes we really don't know. The Gudbranson trade came out of the blue.

 

When Benning is candid, and honest, he says too much and gets a slap on the wrist. 

 

If Benning says be patient, I'll be patient. You can waste your time armchair GM'ing. In reality Benning has the job, and we don't. 

 

Go play NHL 17 if you want to run things your way. You'll feel a lot happier. 

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3 hours ago, DollarAndADream said:

I am pretty excited for the times ahead, but at the same time I'm worried with what is happening in the organization. There's players like Boeser, Juolevi, Stecher, Demko, etc who you think are solid to be Canucks for the long run. Besides that, it's hard to really see who has the potential to truly be a top player.

 

Horvat is obviously a great player already, with an even higher ceiling. The guy straight up hates losing as well, and is super emotional when he scores. Top quality, captain material player.

 

I actually would temper my excitement a bit. Cautiously Excited, there, there are the words I was looking for.

 

Given that nothing changes by the time Boeser gets here next year?

Boeser is going to be told by WD to "Just play your game and show us what you've got." and AT THE SAME TIME "Stay on the right side of the puck and don't allow odd men rushes. OR I WILL SIT YOU DOWN." Boeser is not the the best known skater, Virtanen skates faster.
Q1. Can Boeser's skating give him the separation he needs to get his shot off in the NHL on a regular basis?

There are lots of examples of players with a big beautiful shot that scores a bunch in the AHL, but can't find the room to use that shot in the NHL.

 

Q2. If Virtanen can't skate back into "structure" fast enough after hits and has given up forechecking to match playing style to WD's system, what make you think Boeser would be able to stay in the O zone for an extended period of time to look for a scoring chance and skate back into "structure" fast enough for WD's taste?

If Boeser sits like Virtanen this year, I don't know...

 

Q3. WD can't last that long, can he?

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10 minutes ago, Byrix said:

 

 

I actually would temper my excitement a bit. Cautiously Excited, there, there are the words I was looking for.

 

Given that nothing changes by the time Boeser gets here next year?

Boeser is going to be told by WD to "Just play your game and show us what you've got." and AT THE SAME TIME "Stay on the right side of the puck and don't allow odd men rushes. OR I WILL SIT YOU DOWN." Boeser is not the the best known skater, Virtanen skates faster.
Q1. Can Boeser's skating give him the separation he needs to get his shot off in the NHL on a regular basis?

There are lots of examples of players with a big beautiful shot that scores a bunch in the AHL, but can't find the room to use that shot in the NHL.

 

Q2. If Virtanen can't skate back into "structure" fast enough after hits and has given up forechecking to match playing style to WD's system, what make you think Boeser would be able to stay in the O zone for an extended period of time to look for a scoring chance and skate back into "structure" fast enough for WD's taste?

If Boeser sits like Virtanen this year, I don't know...

 

Q3. WD can't last that long, can he?

It's definitely cautious excitement. That's the only kind I ever have these days watching Canucks hockey. Since watching Boeser get drafted and seeing him play since then, the kid's future is promising.

 

Awesome prospects or not, I'm exciting to watch the youngsters play in any fashion. That's why I love pre-season though as well.

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48 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

What Benning really thinks and what he says on the media are two different things. 

 

I'm pretty sure he's tactful enough to sugar-coat the situation to give the media enough to do their job.

 

What goes on behind the scenes we really don't know. The Gudbranson trade came out of the blue.

 

When Benning is candid, and honest, he says too much and gets a slap on the wrist. 

 

If Benning says be patient, I'll be patient. You can waste your time armchair GM'ing. In reality Benning has the job, and we don't. 

 

Go play NHL 17 if you want to run things your way. You'll feel a lot happier. 

 

I know.

When JB talked at the 2016 draft, "There are players available that we didn't know were available." , that comment just made a lot of people realize how much work is done behind doors. And how fast a GM has to react to a situation and come up with possible scenarios to counter. That takes a very specific skill set to do, and I'm not trying to say that I have the that skill set in a PUBLIC FORUM. LOL. It is in deed his job, but again, I'm not saying that JB has that skill set, either.<_<

 

I kinda liked JB in the media before the Subban fine and I don't have NHL 17.

 

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27 minutes ago, Toews said:

I would put Dorsett in the "stuck" category.

 

Let's look at some 4th Line RW salaries...

DET - Miller $1,025,000

PIT - Kuhnhackl $625,000

ANA - Boll $900,000

CGY - Hathaway $690,000

ARZ - White $1,000,000

PHI - Read $3,625,000

SJ - Wingles $2,475,000

CHI - Tootoo $750,000

MIN - Steward $1,150,000

MON - Hudon $625,000

 

That's 10 teams, I'm not gonna find all 30...

Dorsett @ $2,650,000 is one of the highest paid 4th Line RW in the league.

Tell me, which team can you think of that can't find a 4th Line RW in their system and needs to trade for one?

STUCK

YES YOU ARE RIGHT!

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OP,

 

 

great post. A lot of info to process but I believe this is more a discription of what is happening already.  Take our defence and goalie situation going back 3 season ago. Only 3 remain, everyone has been traded and we have only signed on FA of any consequence in Miller. 

 

The new core has Edler, Tanev and newly arrived Gudbranson to lead the way. Very much a work in progress, but compared 3 years ago, a retool seems very much accomplished.  Lacking one player to be our puck mover, but Stecher seems to have taken the ball and is running with it.  

 

This follows JB's stated course and he is holding to it. 

 

 

I agree that Eriksson and Sutter are players that will be around to stabilize the turn over.  The twins do deserve the choice to stay or go. Maybe so for Edler, Burrows, Hansen and Tanev. If any want to leave then they can always request a trade.  They are all that's left from the older core. 

 

JB was shown that he will cut bait on players not working out.  The transition players are all question marks. Sbisa, Dorsett, Granlund, Baer, Rodin and Larsen.  These guys do not have secure jobs. They will get replaced as soon a someone takes their spot. 

 

That is JB's other stated goal, to build a system that gets fed from within. Players having to compete to earn a spot. Something that was long missing from the organization.

 

Maybe JB was too optimistic that he would see better results from his diligent scouting this season, but one, maybe two more years and the pipeline will be fully loaded and players will have to play to keep their spots. 

 

I say keep on and carry on to JB.  He is rebuilding his roster, whatever he may call it. He just isn't tearing it down. Consider it a Reno. Room by room. 

 

If a trade is available to speed up his process, he will take it. If the Twins want a shot at the cup, he will honour that. Only a handful of guys (all younger) are safe from being moved unless a blockbuster of epic proportions comes down the pipe. 

 

 

Keep on posting OP. Nice to have another decent contributer to the CDC 

 

EW

 

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6 hours ago, Byrix said:

 

 

I actually would temper my excitement a bit. Cautiously Excited, there, there are the words I was looking for.

 

Given that nothing changes by the time Boeser gets here next year?

Boeser is going to be told by WD to "Just play your game and show us what you've got." and AT THE SAME TIME "Stay on the right side of the puck and don't allow odd men rushes. OR I WILL SIT YOU DOWN." Boeser is not the the best known skater, Virtanen skates faster.
Q1. Can Boeser's skating give him the separation he needs to get his shot off in the NHL on a regular basis?

There are lots of examples of players with a big beautiful shot that scores a bunch in the AHL, but can't find the room to use that shot in the NHL.

 

Q2. If Virtanen can't skate back into "structure" fast enough after hits and has given up forechecking to match playing style to WD's system, what make you think Boeser would be able to stay in the O zone for an extended period of time to look for a scoring chance and skate back into "structure" fast enough for WD's taste?

If Boeser sits like Virtanen this year, I don't know...

 

Q3. WD can't last that long, can he?

 

OP,

 

Good questions, Boeser will have to be a responsible player, no matter who is the coach. Only four players I can think of were allowed not to be in Vancouver, Bure, Bert the Twins. Everyone else needed to back check. 

 

Boeser has to continue to improve his skating. Word has it that his skating has improved since going to UND. The coaches there likely have also seen this weakness and are working to correct/improve it. Horvat did very well in addressing his biggest knock. Let's see if Boeser can do the same. 

 

Virtannen's issue was not mobility. He has the speed, but winded quickly. Maybe he put too much emphasis on strength training this off season. Either way, IMO the NHL was the wrong place for him at this time, even before the season started. The PF position is a tough assignment.  

 

The PF is the 'bully' on the ice. Think of the way Bert played. Fearless, mean and absolutely disregarded his opposition. He didn't give a $&!# who he ran over on the way to the goal. 

 

Jake could still be in Junior this year.  He is supposed to take on and intimidate grown men. Jake isn't ready to do that, but he could progress by beating up on AHL opponents and learning to be a '

Bully' again 

 

What WD asked of Jake was holding him back from what he is as a player IMO. Jake isn't the two way force, but can still back check due to his God given speed. His underlying stats bore this out. He just isn't that guy, and he needs to play like he did in JR.

 

Score and goal and then taunt the other bench by slapping their gloves. Bring the puck into the o zone and launch the defender when contact is made and then skate right at the goalie, running him over if needed.  He needs to get in a few fights, and figure out that he can win them.

 

IMO Jake was intimidated by the NHL.  It's one thing to beat some one by being elusive, but when you have to beat them in the trenches the old fashioned way, that toughness takes time. 

 

The only players that seem to beat that curve are the farm boys like Linden, Doan, Horvat and LetterKenny ;)  Not really PF bullies, but freakishly strong.  These guys worked with large animals, that type of toughness is almost born into you.  Jake is a big kid from the burbs and it shows. 

 

Edit... As for WD. I hope he gets removed. 

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Jim Bennings plan 

 

Step1: strong goaltending; miller, markstrom, and demko

 

Step2: strong defense; edler, tanev, tryamkin, juolevi, hutton, gudbranson, stecher, subban 

 

Step3: strong offence; work in progress rn. Currently have horvat and boeser... but the next couple drafts will complete the plan

 

Goaltending defense then offense... the roster we have now will be strong when all additions make the roster.

 

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35 minutes ago, orcasgonewild said:

Step3: strong offence; work in progress rn. Currently have horvat and boeser... but the next couple drafts will complete the plan

 

I think I disagree on Step3. If you remember JB describing what they had in Boston back in 2011, he said

"We didn't have the best team. We weren't the best offence by far. But that team got the job done with a group effort."

To me that sounds like he's just going to have just enough offense, and by the looks of it.

He's trying putting together a forward group with 9 2nd~3rd Line talent guys and hoping that's enough.

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19 hours ago, orcasgonewild said:

Jim Bennings plan 

 

Step1: strong goaltending; miller, markstrom, and demko

 

Step2: strong defense; edler, tanev, tryamkin, juolevi, hutton, gudbranson, stecher, subban 

 

Step3: strong offence; work in progress rn. Currently have horvat and boeser... but the next couple drafts will complete the plan

 

Goaltending defense then offense... the roster we have now will be strong when all additions make the roster.

 

Didn't you post in another thread that we need to get rid of everyone and start over?

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