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What's happening with this team? The new core is learning to win by themselves


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7 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

 

Didnt Daniel also get an offsetting minor penalty though? 

 

I actually still have all those games saved on DVD. Too heartbroken to watch them again though....

 

He got unsportsmanlike conduct for lipping off the ref.

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38 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I have talked to a lot of former players about their take on that finals series and most of them point to Daniel Sedin and the entire team letting him get speed bagged by Marchand as a deflating and defining moment for the entire Canucks team. One former star player told me it was the most embarrassing thing he had ever seen from a team leader in the NHL. I know they were playing for the PP at all times (and it had worked for them up to that series) but even when they did get a PP they could not do anything with it unfortunately.

 

I don't think it's fair to pin it all on the Sedins. But if you want to be the go-to guys you have to be able to raise your game when push comes to shove.

Not as big a deal but it was repeated in the last playoff series the Canucks have had. Calgary! One has to ask if the prime desire is making playoffs then you would think the battle to make the games count would be there. I saw it in Bieksa, Burrows and Hanson end of story.

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1 hour ago, DIBdaQUIB said:

Yeah...as if all the top players in the league don't face top defensive opposition.  The difference is Toews, Crosby etc, rise to the occasion and find a way to contribute, usually on the scoreboard but if not, in other ways.  The Twins have to score to be a factor and they need others to do much of the heavy lifting in order for them to score.

 

1 hour ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said:

The leading storyline of their first cup was that Sid couldn't get on the board during the final, but they had Malkin.  Team.  Team.  Team.

 

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21 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

 

I can actually understand why they were doing that. I can see Daniels logic and I do honestly believe he was doing what he thought was best for the team. I don't question the motive, just the outcome. I do willingly admit the Sedins were kind of damned if they do and damned if they don't in those situations.

 

After that shameful display of reffing bias though, I would have come at it from a completely different angle. I would have said f this noise and started being chippy right back, even the Sedins. Easy to say in hindsight I know. But even if we lost the series we would have won back some self respect. 

 

I cant see Horvat or Gudbranson etc. putting up with that kind of crap under any circumstances. And that's a good thing. 

 

AV had preached restraint to the team all season. Let the other team take penalties and get payback on the PP.  But Henrik went into that series with a back injury from San Jose and Chara was on him like stink on cow crap every time he was on the ice. Stop Henrik and you limit the PP. Particularly with Edler playing with broken fingers and Ehrhoff a buggered shoulder. When they did get anything going on the PP Thomas was there. Thomas was outstanding in that series. Even in their losses.

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Just now, Baggins said:

 

AV had preached restraint to the team all season. Let the other team take penalties and get payback on the PP.  But Henrik went into that series with a back injury from San Jose and Chara was on him like stink on cow crap every time he was on the ice. Stop Henrik and you limit the PP. Particularly with Edler playing with broken fingers and Ehrhoff a buggered shoulder. When they did get anything going on the PP Thomas was there. Thomas was outstanding in that series. Even in their losses.

Thomas was the real difference in the series.

 

He had an unbelievable, more than career playoff... played way over his head.

 

Any team who ran into him would have had a problem.

 

Next year he sucked.

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32 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

 

I can actually understand why they were doing that. I can see Daniels logic and I do honestly believe he was doing what he thought was best for the team. I don't question the motive, just the outcome. I do willingly admit the Sedins were kind of damned if they do and damned if they don't in those situations.

 

After that shameful display of reffing bias though, I would have come at it from a completely different angle. I would have said f this noise and started being chippy right back, even the Sedins. Easy to say in hindsight I know. But even if we lost the series we would have won back some self respect. 

 

I cant see Horvat or Gudbranson etc. putting up with that kind of crap under any circumstances. And that's a good thing. 

I agree with the Sedins. They've pretty much always played the game as honorably as possible. I can't honestly remember a questionable hit or play that they have made.

 

They were hoping that the officials would call the game fairly and impartially, but in hindsight it was anything but. I don't want to open up that can of worms now, as the bias was infuriating to say the least. That being said, the team seemed to retreat further into themselves as the series went on. I'm not sure if that was because the team followed the Sedins lead in the regard, and if the Sedins retreated, because they realized that they were bringing a knife to a gunfight, and lacked the soldiers to fight what had become a back alley brawl.

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What I don't understand is why people find a need to knock the veterans down. Going as far as to criticize the 2011 playoffs which is not fair when you consider the Canucks have only went three times in it's history. To me the need to find a way to try and knock that great memory down is disgraceful as a Canucks fan. Henrik captained that team to Game 7 same as Linden. Different game different era. For the fans now, 5 years later and knock it down and criticize the Sedins is beyond me. The Sedins don't need to retire. They need to lead through the second line much like Thorton and Marleu. No one would be happier than me if Bo Horvat earned the right to take the first line center position and let the Sedins slide down to second. Much like they said on ESPN. No Sedins even with the new core means no second line and veteran leadership. Think about it, imagine if the Sedins don't need to face other teams top defenders night in and night out, they would be a dynamite second line.

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19 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

I might actually watch those games over the next couple of days. I think it might be time to exorcise my demons about it.

 

I tried, couldn't do it. The reffing was awful. Just awful. And contrary to belief here, the Nucks got away with a lot as well. When you put the whistle away it usually plays more in favour of the ugly team than the skilled team.

 

I really saw the turning point as losing Hamhuis. What was he thinking trying to hip check a gorilla? Losing our best defensive d-man, who was also our healthiest at the time, was a killer. Too many injuries to try and compete on the scoreboard. At that point I said to friends our only real hope of winning was Lou playing like a Vezina goalie every game to try and sqeak out the wins. We know that didn't happen.

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2 minutes ago, Katobaron said:

What's funny about this is when we were leading the league the big criticism was that we couldn't close out the easy games. Now that they're doing that the response is "well they can't beat the good teams regardless".

 

The problem back then was that they would "let their foot off the gas" and that was on the leadership to stop that from happening. Happened when Nazzy was Captain too.

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13 minutes ago, Baggins said:

 

AV had preached restraint to the team all season. Let the other team take penalties and get payback on the PP.  But Henrik went into that series with a back injury from San Jose and Chara was on him like stink on cow crap every time he was on the ice. Stop Henrik and you limit the PP. Particularly with Edler playing with broken fingers and Ehrhoff a buggered shoulder. When they did get anything going on the PP Thomas was there. Thomas was outstanding in that series. Even in their losses.

Henrik got that back injury from an unpenalized Weber cross-check.  He torched SJ while playing with that injury.

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4 minutes ago, smokes said:

What I don't understand is why people find a need to knock the veterans down. Going as far as to criticize the 2011 playoffs which is not fair when you consider the Canucks have only went three times in it's history. To me the need to find a way to try and know that great memory down is disgraceful as a Canucks fan. Henrik captained that team to Game 7 same as Linden. Different game different era. For the fans now, 5 years later and knock it down and criticize the Sedins is beyond me. The Sedins don't need to retire. They need to lead through the second line much like Thorton and Marleu. No one would be happier than me if Bo Horvat earned the right to take the first line center position and let the Sedins slide down to second. Much like they said on ESPN. No Sedins even with the new core means no second line and veteran leadership. Think about it, imagine if the Sedins don't need to face other teams top defenders night in and night out, they would be a dynamite second line.

 

There you go you said it, "they would be a dynamite second line". That is where they belong right now and could provide support to the young ones still.

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1 hour ago, EdgarM said:

 

There you go you said it, "they would be a dynamite second line". That is where they belong right now and could provide support to the young ones still.

 

Yes, I've always been on that mindset. I'm just saying you can't discredit the veterans and that they help more than we know. What I don't get is the all or nothing fans who seem to be ready to pitch them out to pasture through early retirement or trade.

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2 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

 

The problem back then was that they would "let their foot off the gas" and that was on the leadership to stop that from happening. Happened when Nazzy was Captain too.

 

It happens to all good teams though. It's the "this will be easy" syndrome. I've seen it time and again from top teams. Sometimes they can turn it late on to get the win but frequently it becomes too little too late.

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4 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

 

There you go you said it, "they would be a dynamite second line". That is where they belong right now and could provide support to the young ones still.

 

Thats why as coach I would try separating them while Baertschi is out. Teams would be forced to respect both lines ability to generate offense. A Sedin is still a Sedin after all.

 

I think the biggest misconception, and quite frankly insult, to the Sefins is that they can't play effectively without one another. Injuries over the years have certainly showed that this is, at least to some degree, not true.

 

Henrik seems to be more aggressive and shoots more without Daniel and Daniel slips into that patient, run the plays playmaker without Henrik.

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4 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said:

Henrik got that back injury from an unpenalized Weber cross-check.  He torched SJ while playing with that injury.

 

I thought it was the Thornton crosscheck in game 5. I know Kesler was injured in both series.

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