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What's happening with this team? The new core is learning to win by themselves


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2 minutes ago, Pete M said:

All three games the Canucks won were nail bitters. One goal games.

Hamhuis is a dman (defends before he scores) and was a very good dman back then. Losing him hurt the team. 

He was a key player...losing him finally caught up to the Canucks.

I can't prove it...but if he was in the line up in SCF, the Canucks would have won the cup. I know, easy for me to say, but hard for me to prove.

Defence wins championships.

 

Except that they lost because of lack of scoring. They were shutout twice including game 7. Defense was NOT there problem in that series goal scoring was. Did you not go through that whole series and wonder "WHEN" are the Sedins going to "Turn it up" or "turn it on". It never happened.

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6 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

 

No, I said that when the Sedins are having an ineffective game they don't suddenly step it up in the final two minutes of games. Have their been times they have? Sure just like any other top player. Can you count on them to do it a lot of the time Ike a guy like Toews, etc.? Nope, not even close and only been getting worse the last several years.

 

8 total goals in 7 finals games is on your primary scorers, not your secondary ones.

So you're saying they're not Toews.  I guess we can criticize an awful lot of players on that basis. 

 

Here's a thought....you're gonna be unhappy with whomever Desjardins puts out there unless they score.

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Just now, WhoseTruckWasIt said:

What about last year's playoffs?  Boom.  The one example win.  I think that's what we're doing here right?

 

Unfortunately there are many examples the last several years of the Sedins not getting the job done in key times, especially in the playoffs. They have one job - create offense. They get a ton of offensive and PP time. When they don't produce its on them not the rest of the team. Thats all they have ever been asked to do.

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21 minutes ago, wallstreetamigo said:

 

Yes because clearly that was not the most important game in Canucks history. 

 

The Sedins played for the PP but then did nothing when they actually got one. They don't get nearly enough responsibility for the Canucks losing that final. Luongo, injuries, secondary scoring, etc. All certainly factors but never mind secondary scoring. We had no primary scoring. What did we score 8 goals in 7 games? Your top players need to own that level of failure too.

 

Hate to break it you you but even Crosby etc frequently gets shut down in the playoffs. That's the name of the game come that time of the year. Teams absolutely smother your top offensive players and refs generally let them do so with far less oversight. 

 

Playoff games are won with that defense (ability to smother your opposition's best players) and secondary scoring (ability for your secondary players to contribute offensively). For the secondary scoring, either they score against weaker defense and you win or your opposition is forced to spread out their defensive players and coverage and that opens up space for your top line to score.... And you win.

 

Having Hamhuis out negatively affected our ability to smother their offensive players and having no secondary scoring support affected our ability to score. Luongo not playing within himself trying to compensate for those things was the cherry on top of our big losing sundae.

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2 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

 

Except that they lost because of lack of scoring. They were shutout twice including game 7. Defense was NOT there problem in that series goal scoring was. Did you not go through that whole series and wonder "WHEN" are the Sedins going to "Turn it up" or "turn it on". It never happened.

So they needed to score 9, or can we blame Luongo too?  What about the D that let in 8?  Wait...is it a team game?

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1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

 

Unfortunately there are many examples the last several years of the Sedins not getting the job done in key times, especially in the playoffs. They have one job - create offense. They get a ton of offensive and PP time. When they don't produce its on them not the rest of the team. Thats all they have ever been asked to do.

At least you're not over-simplifying.

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Just now, wallstreetamigo said:

 

Unfortunately there are many examples the last several years of the Sedins not getting the job done in key times, especially in the playoffs. They have one job - create offense. They get a ton of offensive and PP time. When they don't produce its on them not the rest of the team. Thats all they have ever been asked to do.

"Thats all they have ever been asked to do."

 

So all those years they played on the PK don't count?

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1 minute ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said:

So you're saying they're not Toews.  I guess we can criticize an awful lot of players on that basis. 

 

Here's a thought....you're gonna be unhappy with whomever Desjardins puts out there unless they score.

 

Actually that's not true at all, at least to me. Whether they score or not is irrelevant. It's whether whoever he puts out has the best chance to get us a goal based on how they are actually playing in that game. That's what good coaches do. 

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2 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

Hate to break it you you but even Crosby etc frequently gets shut down in the playoffs. That's the name of the game come that time of the year. Teams absolutely smother your top offensive players and refs generally let them do so with far less oversight. 

 

Playoff games are won with that defense (ability to smother your opposition's best players) and secondary scoring (ability for your secondary players to contribute offensively). For the secondary scoring, either they score against weaker defense and you win or your opposition is forced to spread out their defensive players and coverage and that opens up space for your top line to score and you win.

 

Having Hamhuis out negatively affected our ability to smother thewir offensive players and having no secondary scoring support affected our ability to score. Luongo not playing withing himself trying to compensate for those things was the cherry on top of our big losing sundae.

Wait.....you've paid attention to other playoffs?

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7 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said:

What about last year's playoffs?  Boom.  The one example win.  I think that's what we're doing here right?

      Yeah 4 goals in 7 games what a bum. :lol:                                        

 
Ryan Kesler Career Stats
Season Team GP G A P +/- PIM PPG PPP SHG SHP GWG OTG S S% FO%
Career - 80 23 32 55 2 95 9 16 0 1 3 1 204 11.3 54.4
2006-2007 VAN 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 28.57
2008-2009 VAN 10 2 2 4 -2 14 1 1 0 0 0 0 28 7.1 52.87
2009-2010 VAN 12 1 9 10 3 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 21 4.8 52.99
2010-2011 VAN 25 7 12 19 0 47 4 8 0 1 2 1 76 9.2 54.11
2011-2012 VAN 5 0 3 3 -1 6 0 1 0 0 0 0 16 0 53.1
2012-2013 VAN 4 2 0 2 -2 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 13 15.4 52.43
2014-2015 ANA 16 7 6 13 2 24 1 2 0 0 1 0 33 21.2 57.55
2015-2016 ANA 7 4 0 4 2 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 15 26.7 56.4
Season Team GP G A P +/- PIM PPG PPP SHG SHP GWG OTG S S% FO%
 
2006-2007 VAN 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 28.57
2008-2009 VAN 10 2 2 4 -2 14 1 1 0 0 0 0 28 7.1 52.87
2009-2010 VAN 12 1 9 10 3 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 21 4.8 52.99
2010-2011 VAN 25 7 12 19 0 47 4 8 0 1 2 1 76 9.2 54.11
2011-2012 VAN 5 0 3 3 -1 6 0 1 0 0 0 0 16 0 53.1
2012-2013 VAN 4 2 0 2 -2 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 13 15.4 52.43
2014-2015 ANA 16 7 6 13 2 24 1 2 0 0 1 0 33 21.2 57.55
2015-2016 ANA 7 4 0 4 2 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 15 26.7 56.4
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1 minute ago, wallstreetamigo said:

 

Actually that's not true at all, at least to me. Whether they score or not is irrelevant. It's whether whoever he puts out has the best chance to get us a goal based on how they are actually playing in that game. That's what good coaches do. 

And hecklers sit on the sidelines with the luxury of second-guessing everything.

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4 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said:

He's a clown.  He was extremely fortunate to play in the Sedins' shadow.  Put him on another team and his career likely has even less offense.  The Sedins are hall of fame leaders that have never had serious help.  They played through injury in a final where the rulebook was disregarded.  Kesler will not be spoken of in the same breath.  But, if I had issues with my masculinity I would probably obsess about players that I perceive as tough.

 

Do you not watch hockey outside of the Nucks? last year with the Ducks Kes was their best player winning draws, scoring and being placed in all important situations. 

 

You diss Kess, but IMO and many others, this guy had the compete level and skill to outpace the Twins, who are nothing but regular season champs. 

 

Prove me wrong, I dare you, show me some highlights or precious youtube vids where the Twins actually won some important games for us..... instead you will be resigned to learn that they haven't done anything for this franchise other than provide us some garbage points. 

 

Compared to the 3 time Cup champ Toews, these guys are nothing and deserve their regular season trophies, because that is all they are worth. 

 

Linden and Bure say Hi! 

 

Prove me wrong bud, but I guess you will answer with another question and/or statement which diverts the subject matter at hand. GL! 

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Let's go back 6 years, shall we?

 

Canucks 2010/11 playoff point leaders:

 

Henrik Sedin - 3 goals 19 assists = 22 pts

Daniel Sedin - 9 goals 11 assists = 20 pts

Ryan Kesler - 7 goals 12 assists = 19 pts

 

I think the Sedins should be given some credit for their playoff success that year.

 

 

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Just now, EdgarM said:

      Yeah 4 goals in 7 games what a bum. :lol:                                        

 
Ryan Kesler Career Stats
Season Team GP G A P +/- PIM PPG PPP SHG SHP GWG OTG S S% FO%
Career - 80 23 32 55 2 95 9 16 0 1 3 1 204 11.3 54.4
2006-2007 VAN 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 28.57
2008-2009 VAN 10 2 2 4 -2 14 1 1 0 0 0 0 28 7.1 52.87
2009-2010 VAN 12 1 9 10 3 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 21 4.8 52.99
2010-2011 VAN 25 7 12 19 0 47 4 8 0 1 2 1 76 9.2 54.11
2011-2012 VAN 5 0 3 3 -1 6 0 1 0 0 0 0 16 0 53.1
2012-2013 VAN 4 2 0 2 -2 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 13 15.4 52.43
2014-2015 ANA 16 7 6 13 2 24 1 2 0 0 1 0 33 21.2 57.55
2015-2016 ANA 7 4 0 4 2 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 15 26.7 56.4
Season Team GP G A P +/- PIM PPG PPP SHG SHP GWG OTG S S% FO%
 
2006-2007 VAN 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 28.57
2008-2009 VAN 10 2 2 4 -2 14 1 1 0 0 0 0 28 7.1 52.87
2009-2010 VAN 12 1 9 10 3 4 0 1 0 0 0 0 21 4.8 52.99
2010-2011 VAN 25 7 12 19 0 47 4 8 0 1 2 1 76 9.2 54.11
2011-2012 VAN 5 0 3 3 -1 6 0 1 0 0 0 0 16 0 53.1
2012-2013 VAN 4 2 0 2 -2 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 13 15.4 52.43
2014-2015 ANA 16 7 6 13 2 24 1 2 0 0 1 0 33 21.2 57.55
2015-2016 ANA 7 4 0 4 2 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 15 26.7 56.4

Where was he in game 7?  That's all that matters right?  If your team has an embarrassing loss it's on your leaders right?  Isn't that the point?

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1 minute ago, NUCKER67 said:

Let's go back 6 years, shall we?

 

Canucks 2010/11 playoff point leaders:

 

Henrik Sedin - 3 goals 19 assists = 22 pts

Daniel Sedin - 9 goals 11 assists = 20 pts

Ryan Kesler - 7 goals 12 assists = 19 pts

 

I think the Sedins should be given some credit for their playoff success that year.

 

 

What place do facts have in an emotional argument?

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1 minute ago, EdgarM said:

 

Except that they lost because of lack of scoring. They were shutout twice including game 7. Defense was NOT there problem in that series goal scoring was. Did you not go through that whole series and wonder "WHEN" are the Sedins going to "Turn it up" or "turn it on". It never happened.

When Hamhuis went down after trying to hip check Lucic, my first thought was the Canucks are toast.

They battled hard and made the series close; however, losing their best Dman (not to mention other Dmen who were lost and playing injured), contributed to the lack of scoring, and the Bruins winning their games easily. Good defence creates scoring chances, The Canucks fell short because of their injured Defence...Hamhuis being the biggest loss.

 

A team needs good defence to win and when a team loses their good defence, it is hard to win.

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5 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

Hate to break it you you but even Crosby etc frequently gets shut down in the playoffs. That's the name of the game come that time of the year. Teams absolutely smother your top offensive players and refs generally let them do so with far less oversight. 

 

Playoff games are won with that defense (ability to smother your opposition's best players) and secondary scoring (ability for your secondary players to contribute offensively). For the secondary scoring, either they score against weaker defense and you win or your opposition is forced to spread out their defensive players and coverage and that opens up space for your top line to score.... And you win.

 

Having Hamhuis out negatively affected our ability to smother their offensive players and having no secondary scoring support affected our ability to score. Luongo not playing within himself trying to compensate for those things was the cherry on top of our big losing sundae.

 

This is a stupid argument, did you not see Crosby win key draws, or play the PK or make some great plays on the PP???  Does not even matter if he even scores points, he was named Conn Smythe because of his great play even without the puck. 

 

How much of a homer are you to diss Crosby? WOW. Go back to being a homer and @LaBamba's wife, you know nothing about hockey to diss Sid like this. The greatest player of our generation and you assign him secondary status? Are you dull bro?

 

 

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2 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said:

Where was he in game 7?  That's all that matters right?  If your team has an embarrassing loss it's on your leaders right?  Isn't that the point?

 

No because I said the Twins scored 1 goal each in " 7 GAMES" . Kessler alone scored 4 in seven games in which you said he failed last year. See the difference?

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4 minutes ago, WhoseTruckWasIt said:

And hecklers sit on the sidelines with the luxury of second-guessing everything.

 

Fans always second guess things. It's called being passionate about your team. 

 

The biggest issue in any business, hockey included, is doing the same things that previously got you some success when the landscape has changed. You need to adjust to that and not try to force something that is no longer working the way you hope.

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