Fidel Castro Dead at Age 90

[ShakyWalton]

3 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Very close relationship. It made the Americans very angry.

"Viva Castro".

 

I'm sure @ShakyWalton recalls that.

I do actually...I didnt know what to think at the time because Castro was being painted as this monster and I was alot younger......Castro and Che are together again.

[Ryan Strome]

4 minutes ago, JV77 said:

Americans get away with everything and ignore what they have done and it's really pissing me off now.

 

Guy on CNN talking about Castro "encouraging" the Soviets to use nuclear weapons on the US...for god sakes they are the only country to ever use them!!

 

And they totally ignore it and excuse it! 

It's my understanding that Castro wasn't big on Soviet Nukes being placed in Cuba but the Soviets were pushing for it and making promises to Fidel.

 

Btw don't watch cnn it's a joke...just look at the election and cnn's scandalous garbage. 

 

Again I wouldn't call Fidel a saint but cnn is always ridiculous. America is always the good guy, but to be fair all U.S media plays that card.

[Blue Jay 22]

52 minutes ago, JV77 said:

Americans get away with everything and ignore what they have done and it's really pissing me off now.

 

Guy on CNN talking about Castro "encouraging" the Soviets to use nuclear weapons on the US...for god sakes they are the only country to ever use them!!

 

And they totally ignore it and excuse it! 

 

You're not actually comparing the two situations are you?

[Lancaster]

Castro and his regime did do a lot of terrible things, but whether you believe they're justified or not will depend on your own political stance and your opinion on the United States.

 

Foreign assets seized, countless families shattered due to many fleeing, economic hardship brought upon by poor economy theory, many individuals disappearing/tortured/executed for simply not being sheep to the state.

 

or

 

Stopping abusive companies/USA from extracting resources from Cuba without any economic benefit to the island, removing the corrupt political apparatus, attempting to redistribute wealth to citizens, protecting the Cuban revolution against internal/external forces that may harm it. 

[JV77]

1 hour ago, Blue Jay 22 said:

 

You're not actually comparing the two situations are you?

Why not?  One committed the crime, one didn't.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Normalizing relations with the Yanks literally killed the guy...

[CaptainCanuck001]

A very polarizing figure. His government definitely did some pretty bad things, but the way he reformed healthcare and education in Cuba is a positive.

[Johnny Shotgun]

It always bothered the US that Canada remained on good terms with Castro and his country.  So much that many in their government and the FBI considered Trudeau to be communist.  Under Batista Havana was considered to be the "whorehouse of the Caribbean" and when the mob was kicked out the hate began.   Nothing angers the US more than losing a cash cow.

 

[ABNuck]

8 hours ago, JV77 said:

Americans get away with everything and ignore what they have done and it's really pissing me off now.

 

Guy on CNN talking about Castro "encouraging" the Soviets to use nuclear weapons on the US...for god sakes they are the only country to ever use them!!

 

And they totally ignore it and excuse it! 

 

7 hours ago, Blue Jay 22 said:

 

You're not actually comparing the two situations are you?

 

5 hours ago, JV77 said:

Why not?  One committed the crime, one didn't.

 

OK OK OK...apples/oranges. To start off with I'll state that I in NO WAY support what the US did in 1945. As a former soldier I simply can never tolerate the death of civilians during any conflict...it actually goes against everything that a soldier stands for.

 

But to understand the nuclear arms race and it's subsequent use (true, only one nation is guilty of using them) I'll use an analogy:

 

A judge must sentence a serial killer to death for his crimes (again I am in no way advocating one side or the other here, simply explaining the situation). This does 2 things:

1/ punishes the criminal for his acts

2/ acts as a deterrent to anyone else who might even think of getting away with the same crime

 

People tend to downplay or forget altogether the terrible atrocities committed by Japan during WW2. Timing came into effect as well. If Hitler's regime still had its death grip on Europe in 1945, we may well have seen Berlin reduced to a pile of rubble as well. But they had surrendered already. The Japanese only stepped up their ferocious campaign of brutal and deathly dominance over the Asian-Pacific theatre, right up until the end. So the use of nuclear force although necessary, was not a decision arrived at very easily.

 

So this brings us to the Cold War. It was a war based on propaganda about opposing ideologies. The Soviets didn't trust us (of course they only knew about the Western World what they were told) and we didn't trust them (again, for the same reasons). The fact that the US + Soviet Union never went to war is because of what happened in 1945. Neither side wanted a repeat of that. But in order to ensure that neither side gained an advantage, they both met each others destructive levels nuke for nuke. And not only nuke for nuke, but strategic placement of said WMD's...hence the problem with Fidel.

 

It has been stated over and over again by many lettered history professors, the Cold War was nothing more than a push and shove, prideful school yard matchup. The Capitalists wanted to halt any spread of Communism, and the Communists wanted to halt the destructive effects of Capitalism.

 

Fidel simply wanted what was best for his people...he stood to gain very little personally. I may not agree with his politics (or any politics for that matter), but you must admire the man's desire to try and do the best for his people, even if it didn't turn out perfectly. I was in Cuba last January, and the people there seem happy. Now that Cuba is open to American tourism, I'm not sure I'll ever go back.

[Alflives]

7 hours ago, Lancaster said:

Castro and his regime did do a lot of terrible things, but whether you believe they're justified or not will depend on your own political stance and your opinion on the United States.

 

Foreign assets seized, countless families shattered due to many fleeing, economic hardship brought upon by poor economy theory, many individuals disappearing/tortured/executed for simply not being sheep to the state.

 

or

 

Stopping abusive companies/USA from extracting resources from Cuba without any economic benefit to the island, removing the corrupt political apparatus, attempting to redistribute wealth to citizens, protecting the Cuban revolution against internal/external forces that may harm it. 

The easiest way to decide his leadership was through the number of people ESCAPING to the USA.  How many Americans, during those years, escaped to Cuba? 

[Warhippy]

When I lived in the US and people would ask why I thought Fidel fought the US when it came up my only example was

 

have you ever been to haiti or the Dominican Republic?

 

The US exploited Haiti to the absolute extreme while exploiting the Dominican in a different way based on beauty but also political leaders.  One wouldn't play nice (haiti) and one would (DR) over the years.

 

Castro was NOT a nice man.  But then real leaders rarely are.  The US spent 30+ years painting Castro as a communist monster, a socialist evil.  They spent over 40 years doing that to their population about any country that did not play ball with them

 

Haiti, Iran, Russia, Palestine, China, Vietnam, N. Korea and more.  While some of those countries were truly deplorable Cuba never seemed one of them.  I know of many people that go yearly or bought property where they were permitted too.  There was never an issue.  

 

Castro had built by many accounts a better education system.  Health system.  kept his resources and control over his country while only being 90 miles from arguably the most divisive and greedy nation on the planet

 

One can only hope they continue treating with the US at that arms length now that Obama opened the doors

 

Castro was one of the last remaining fixtures of what was one of the greatest ages in human history.  He was a giant among historical figures.  He fought the US, and won.

 

He rests with Che now, and for good or ill; without the evils he may have brought on his own people.  he left them a country intact in an age where people are finally learning from their mistakes.

 

Rest well Fidel, they never beat you

[JM_]

I'm glad I went to Cuba before the US gets in and screws it up. When you compare travelling there to Mexico e.g., there's just such a huge difference in what its like to go to a place that isn't designed to cater to Americans. Everywhere my wife and i went in Cuba the people were wonderful. I hope that they can keep their culture intact once the US has the borders open. 

[Brad Marchand]

13 hours ago, Wilbur said:

During the revolution a lot of good people fled/were kicked out too.  A polarizing figure for sure.

Those in the US will probably always view Castro as a totalitarian, anti-American dictator whose government was responsible for numerous human rights abuses. His contributions to improving Cuba's healthcare and education standards among other things will always be weighed against his undeniable track record for suppressing political dissent, hence my general ambivalence towards him.

 

Even so, it's just another historic example of America picking and choosing which oppressive regime to vilify. The US government hasn't directed nearly as much criticism towards the Saudi government and their vast array of human rights abuses thanks to their reliance on oil. America has always been about championing democracy only when it's in their best interests.

[Ossi Vaananen]

In case you guys missed it, here's Trudeau's softhearted response:

 

http://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2016/11/26/statement-prime-minister-canada-death-former-cuban-president-fidel-castro

 

Quote

The Prime Minister, Justin Trudeau, today issued the following statement on the death of former Cuban President Fidel Castro:

“It is with deep sorrow that I learned today of the death of Cuba’s longest serving President.

“Fidel Castro was a larger than life leader who served his people for almost half a century. A legendary revolutionary and orator, Mr. Castro made significant improvements to the education and healthcare of his island nation.

“While a controversial figure, both Mr. Castro’s supporters and detractors recognized his tremendous dedication and love for the Cuban people who had a deep and lasting affection for “el Comandante”.

“I know my father was very proud to call him a friend and I had the opportunity to meet Fidel when my father passed away. It was also a real honour to meet his three sons and his brother President Raúl Castro during my recent visit to Cuba.

“On behalf of all Canadians, Sophie and I offer our deepest condolences to the family, friends and many, many supporters of Mr. Castro. We join the people of Cuba today in mourning the loss of this remarkable leader.”

 

It has since prompted #trudeaueulogies to trend on twitter:

 

 

Bahahahhaha. Oh Trudeau, you meathead. Pretty hard to romanticize a tyrant but he managed to. 

[JV77]

5 hours ago, S'all Good Man said:

I'm glad I went to Cuba before the US gets in and screws it up. When you compare travelling there to Mexico e.g., there's just such a huge difference in what its like to go to a place that isn't designed to cater to Americans. Everywhere my wife and i went in Cuba the people were wonderful. I hope that they can keep their culture intact once the US has the borders open. 

Fully agree.  We went in 2012 with bunch of familes together.  Young kids to elderly.   We felt so safe there to go anywhere we pleased and it was.

 

I wouldn't even go to Mexico now even just staying on a resort.  Would you rather go to Cuba or places in the USA such as Chicago or Detroit??  lol Americans act like they live in such a warm welcoming and safe country.

[Shift-4]

Sounds like it will be rum and coke tonight

[Ghostsof1915]

One man's tyrant is another man's freedom fighter. It's all about perspective isn't it? Sounds to me Trudeau is mourning the loss of the man, not the regime. 

Was Castro a saint? No. I'm sure there were lots of enemies that were locked up for no good reason. But one must remember he kicked out the mafia infested Havana.

In fact JFK pointed out:

 

"At the beginning of 1959 United States companies owned about 40 percent of the Cuban sugar lands—almost all the cattle ranches—90 percent of the mines and mineral concessions—80 percent of the utilities—practically all the oil industry—and supplied two-thirds of Cuba's imports."

— John F. Kennedy

 

Batista was just as corrupt.

 

"Fulgencio Batista murdered 20,000 Cubans in seven years ... and he turned Democratic Cuba into a complete police state—destroying every individual liberty. Yet our aid to his regime, and the ineptness of our policies, enabled Batista to invoke the name of the United States in support of his reign of terror. Administration spokesmen publicly praised Batista—hailed him as a staunch ally and a good friend—at a time when Batista was murdering thousands, destroying the last vestiges of freedom, and stealing hundreds of millions of dollars from the Cuban people, and we failed to press for free elections."^[36]

 

By the end of Batista's rule, later described by U.S. President Kennedy as "one of the most bloody and repressive dictatorships in the long history of Latin American repression".^[36]

 

Wikipedia.

 

So two wrongs don't make a right. 

 

[CBH1926]

6 hours ago, JV77 said:

Fully agree.  We went in 2012 with bunch of familes together.  Young kids to elderly.   We felt so safe there to go anywhere we pleased and it was.

 

I wouldn't even go to Mexico now even just staying on a resort.  Would you rather go to Cuba or places in the USA such as Chicago or Detroit??  lol Americans act like they live in such a warm welcoming and safe country.

I wonder how many people consider place like Detroit as a vacation spot vs. Caribbean.

As far as safety goes in 2015 Chicago had almost 52 million visitors, I think most of them survived.

 

[Warhippy]

21 hours ago, Ossi Vaananen said:

In case you guys missed it, here's Trudeau's softhearted response:

 

http://pm.gc.ca/eng/news/2016/11/26/statement-prime-minister-canada-death-former-cuban-president-fidel-castro

 

 

It has since prompted #trudeaueulogies to trend on twitter:

 

 

Bahahahhaha. Oh Trudeau, you meathead. Pretty hard to romanticize a tyrant but he managed to. 

My favorite thing about people losing their minds about this is that they are people who lean right

 

Supported Harper

 

Yet never spoke up about this

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/01/22/stephen-harper-king-abdullah_n_6528942.html

 

Can sit and spin about Castro all one likes.  There is no way in Hell Castro was more brutal than the former king of Saudi Arabia.

[Mustapha]

On 26/11/2016 at 8:59 AM, Alflives said:

The easiest way to decide his leadership was through the number of people ESCAPING to the USA.  How many Americans, during those years, escaped to Cuba? 

 

Some of the apologetics I am reading on here makes me sick.

 

Just a few examples here:

 

- Murdered thousands of Cubans by firing squad without due process. 

- Murdered civilians who tried to escape the country,

- Persecuted gays, religious minorities and other 'undesirables' by placing them in forced labour camps.

 

These are not actions against the 'encroachment of the USA' or because of the Cold War. These are atrocities committed against his own people.

 

I find it so hilariously ironic that some of the same people who denigrate Donald Trump for supposedly being a 'fascist dictator' in waiting are actually defending Castro. Of course, Donald Trump was one of the few people to actually remind the public who Castro was when he died. 

 

I can understand why some would romanticize and make excuses for the guy. I mean, if I was a social justice Marxist idiot who hates the concepts of the free expression of ideas and basic liberalism, I would think Castro was a swell guy too.