Bruce Boudreau Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 The biggest thing I took from this is that he seems extremely immature. Evander Kane is a good comparable as a power forward to his career arc. He still hasn't matured and he is almost 26. This is why character and work ethic is so important when evaluating a teenager's talent level now compared to where the potential is if/when everything clicks. I have said this before. I have a feeling that Virtanen is too comfortable being the local guy and high pick and feels opportunities should be just given to him because the Canucks have said countless times how desperate they are to get a player with his skill set be an impact player. All Benning talks about is getting faster and bigger and Virtanen fits that to a tee. Problem is lately he doesn't play to his size. If ever figures it out if will probably only happen once he is on his third team like Kassian and potentially Kane to Vancouver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6string Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 Do you think the kid came into camp out of shape, a few people said that when they saw him in the summer time that he was looking plump not pumped! I've watched more than few videos of NHL'ers off season training ( Bo's was very impressive and Ben Hutton is on a early learning curve ) and you find out quickly why some athletes get left behind and others accelerate their careers, I wonder if this a problem with Jake that can easily be repaired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocksterh8 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 1 hour ago, Nuxin07 said: I don't see how this kid is going to have success if he in only playing 10 minutes a night in the AHL. Another JB disaster. Just on a side rant - JB was brought in for scouting - when you compare the draft success of JV and OJ to Nylander and Tkachuk it just futher reminds me we should have brought in an experienced GM. In the future Aquillini has to learn not role the dice on a junior coach/rookie gm/rookie prez. It only adds to the whole "ownership control" theory. Somewhere Mike Gillis is laughing his ass off... Why the hell does everyone get on their little minus horse as soon as someone talks negative about the management (Jim Benning) on here? I'm beginning to think there is nothing but a bunch of babies on here that can't take any criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6string Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 Well a closing statement that Gillis is laughing his ass off, is a contradiciton to his article ( he claims to want an experienced GM, Gill is was none of that ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeard Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 it was probably better to have McCann stay and virt traded, perhaps we get to keep the additional pick, as This team needs some skill even our farm on the A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 1 hour ago, WHL rocks said: Rookie GM, Rookie coach, Rookie President. Mistakes are bound to be made, all three are on their first Job in their respective roles. Second time around they will know better. Thing is none of these 3 will likely get a 2nd time around at these positions. The only mistake JB might have made was selecting Virtanen. And if it was, there was 3/4 of CDC who also wanted Jake. Jakes biggest fault is he wanted to "talk the talk before he could walk the walk" He forgot that this is a job where everyone wants your place and if you don't dedicate yourself to it you will find you are in the A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 34 minutes ago, Honky Cat said: About 75% of the GM's in the league are rookie GM's.... I said President, GM and Coach. Not just GM. I've made plenty of posts on here about GM's and how long their careers last.(much longer average on US based teams btw) All three are 2 years into their respective positions who came in at the same time as rookies. Mistakes are bound to be made. Even seasoned vets make mistakes, but when you have all 3 top guys in charge of improving the team who came in as rookies there are bound to be learning pains. . Virtanen was their first draft pick. Both player picked after him, Ehlers and Nylander are gold, Virt looks like he'll be lucky to pan out as a solid 3rd liner at this point in time. They screwed up his development. Look back on my posts, I've said this since they rushed him into the NHL just to excite the fanbase and sell a few tickets to please the owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocksterh8 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 47 minutes ago, MJDDawg said: The more I hear come out of Jake's mouth, the more I think that this is less about what the team is or isn't doing and more about the lack of brain matter between his ears. IMO, everything he's said from last season up to now has been him saying what he thinks the team and fans want to here, while his actions both in practice and in games indicates he hasn't "heard" a damn thing. At some point, he's going to have to figure it out himself. Now that he's down in the minors, we're still getting the "I don't understand, I don't get it, They haven't talked to me"? Way to throw your employer and immediate boss under the bus Jake. It'll keep you down in the minors for a good couple of seasons. Yeah because he should lie like his coach and boss do, that is the way to go through life. Good call dude. Glad your here taking up air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckleheads fan Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 6 hours ago, 6string said: Do you think the kid came into camp out of shape, a few people said that when they saw him in the summer time that he was looking plump not pumped! I've watched more than few videos of NHL'ers off season training ( Bo's was very impressive and Ben Hutton is on a early learning curve ) and you find out quickly why some athletes get left behind and others accelerate their careers, I wonder if this a problem with Jake that can easily be repaired. I think Jake and Traymkin both came to camp way out of shape. For Tryamkin, it's understandable, he probably came to camp in the same shape he did in the KHL, but this isn't the KHL. Willie made his point with him, and Tryamkin obviously worked hard, earned the coach's trust, and has improved. Jake on the other hand seems to be dense as a rock. Last year Willie saw issues with Jake's diet and fitness level DURING THE SEASON! Willie bag skated Jake several times when Jake was holding down a seat in the press box. You'd think the kid would have learned. I've said this before, I honestly believe that Willie was using Bo as an object lesson for Jake. We knew that Bo wasn't a 4th line player, and would not stay on the 4th line. I think Willie put him there to show Jake, who hadn't even earned 4th line minutes, how a professional goes about his game. Bo started on the 4th line, worked his ass off, and never complained. I think Willie was trying to show Jake what a professional hockey player does when faced with adversity, but Jake is too immature, or stupid to learn. Instead, he complained publicly about his ice time and line mates. That is NOT the way to earn the trust of your coach or your mates. I fear we have Kassian redux, so far without the addiction problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 Just now, alfstonker said: The only mistake JB might have made was selecting Virtanen. And if it was, there was 3/4 of CDC who also wanted Jake. Jakes biggest fault is he wanted to "talk the talk before he could walk the walk" He forgot that this is a job where everyone wants your place and if you don't dedicate yourself to it you will find you are in the A. Agree for the most part. Even after selecting him I think they messed up Virt's development by rushing him into the NHL. I just read an article on JV and coach Green thinks JV needs to improve in all aspects of the game not just offense. Which we all know anyways. Point is he should have been learning this "stuff" in the jr's last year. He was rushed and may never recover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 1 hour ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said: So that doesn't sound good. But then later in the interview: Which sounds like they did communicate a plan to Virtanen. And then regarding Willie and the "stuff": This all seems like a case of a reporter taking advantage of a kid who isn't very media savvy. And the result is some juicy quotes that can be used to make the Canucks organization appear inept. But it seems clear that Virtanen knows what's expected of him and what he needs to do to get back to the NHL. Which again suggests there is a plan and that it has been communicated to the player. And Benning did say that they had meetings in Vancouver to decide what the long term plan was for Virtanen. Which really seems like the main reason why they brought Jake back to Vancouver before re-assigning him to Utica. The rest of the interview just strikes me as the reporter manipulating Virtanen into saying some things that might make the team look bad. And unfortunately, it seems that Jake hasn't quite learned to keep his mouth shut when it comes to statements that are potentially damaging to the reputation of the team and its management and coaching staff. Hope you are right SID... People keep speaking about a youngster, but surely somebody from the organisation has explained to him by now, that he should keep his head down, and keep a low profile. Otherwise his future could easily end up laying somewhere else... there is only one captain in any ship, and he dictates where the ship is going. Its not a democracy. Stories like this will annoy management... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 14 hours ago, Rocksterh8 said: Yeah because he should lie like his coach and boss do, that is the way to go through life. Good call dude. Glad your here taking up air. You just don't get it. Intentionally or not Virtanen has embarrassed WD and JB every time he has opened his self entitled mouth. This is sign of a weak character given that the coach was the one guy who really batted for Virtanen when the media were slating him after the WJC. Imo he comes over as spoilt, selfish and someone who is always looking to paint himself as a victim. That is not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 1 hour ago, BlackBeard said: some immaturity there when he said he doesn't know the stuff they're talking about, he should've had gotten that it was just a made up and went along with it to keep things professional and avoid making things bigger, the kind of things a lot of the media feeds on. imagine WD being honest on Virtanen, in his interviews, that would've been sick That's exactly what I thought too. JB comes across as a whiney kid pouting at Dad (wd)... obviously he is attempting to get what he wants a bit through the media by putting pressure on management..it happens all the time and most AHLers would give their left nut to be recalled for two games even if they were scratched. He has been given plenty of opportunities so far...and his only hope of making it at this point is to produce and earn the spot on the roster. I like JV and hope he can become part of the new core but we shouldnt ignore other players on the farm...Hutton is a good example of why and possibly Stetcher this year. Sometimes players who get called up do better in the big leagues given the talent increase and better line mates. The team should give players their due if when injuries occur and not keep going to the same part of the well if it isn't working .. regardless of where players were drafted if they have earned it. JV needs to clear his head and go and show why he deserves it not whine about stuff and bouncing around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 6 minutes ago, WHL rocks said: Agree for the most part. Even after selecting him I think they messed up Virt's development by rushing him into the NHL. I just read an article on JV and coach Green thinks JV needs to improve in all aspects of the game not just offense. Which we all know anyways. Point is he should have been learning this "stuff" in the jr's last year. He was rushed and may never recover. He was "given a chance in the NHL" because it was that or back to the minors. That was no more rushing him than what they did for Bo - that was giving him an opportunity. The fact that Jake was too dense to grab his chance and work his ass off during the off season just showed that some people don't appreciate a break when it is given to them. That is no way a reflection on the GM who could only be accused of having too much faith in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 Quote "It’s just business and that’s just how things are going to work. I dunno exactly what (the plan is) they didn’t really communicate with me as much." As for getting "his stuff", Virtanen, Vancouver's 2014 first-round selection, has no idea what his coach was talking about. "I honestly have no idea, to be honest," he said. "I actually still don’t understand that really." Everyone has to admit. JV should not be saying these things. He's had media training, played a full season on an NHL team. He knows exactly what he's saying. He's a kid, he's probably a bit frustrated which is normal for a kid his age. But he needs to be a bit more diplomatic in his response next time. This won't help him or the mgmt team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 16 minutes ago, Chip Kelly said: The biggest thing I took from this is that he seems extremely immature. Evander Kane is a good comparable as a power forward to his career arc. He still hasn't matured and he is almost 26. This is why character and work ethic is so important when evaluating a teenager's talent level now compared to where the potential is if/when everything clicks. I have said this before. I have a feeling that Virtanen is too comfortable being the local guy and high pick and feels opportunities should be just given to him because the Canucks have said countless times how desperate they are to get a player with his skill set be an impact player. All Benning talks about is getting faster and bigger and Virtanen fits that to a tee. Problem is lately he doesn't play to his size. If ever figures it out if will probably only happen once he is on his third team like Kassian and potentially Kane to Vancouver. Disagree comparing him to Kane (and even Kassian). Virtanen isn't taking photos of himself talking into stacks of money or grabbing women in bars, nor is he dealing with substance issues. He's just a young player who could use more experience dealing with adversity and the media, and time to work on his game. Most power forwards take a while to figure out their space and role in the NHL. His interviews and NHL career not going as we'd hoped so far is just development, not necessarily outside or personal issues, so no reason to compare to Kane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJDDawg Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 15 minutes ago, Rocksterh8 said: Yeah because he should lie like his coach and boss do, that is the way to go through life. Good call dude. Glad your here taking up air. You don't work in the real world do you? What colour is the sky in your world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 7 minutes ago, alfstonker said: He was "given a chance in the NHL" because it was that or back to the minors. That was no more rushing him than what they did for Bo - that was giving him an opportunity. The fact that Jake was too dense to grab his chance and work his ass off during the off season just showed that some people don't appreciate a break when it is given to them. That is no way a reflection on the GM who could only be accused of having too much faith in him. I disagree. They had 9 games to judge if VIrt is too "dense" to pick up what's being put in front of him. This is what they get paid millions of dollars for. They should have figured out pre draft if Virt was "too dense" to be able to learn the NHL game. They had all sorts of opportunities including interviews with the subject. Can't compare JV to Horvat, or any other player. Can't compare Horvat to McDavid. Different players, different level of talent and different personalities. If you want to do that then why not keep every new prospect with the big team, Horvat did it.... Doesn't work like that. It's management's job to figure out who is good enough and developed enough to be kept up and who isn't. Actually that's precisely their job. That's what they do and that's what they get paid to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckleheads fan Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 1 minute ago, alfstonker said: You just don't get it. Intentionally or not Virtanen has embarrassed WD and JB every time he has opened his self entitled mouth. This is sign of a week character given that the coach was the one guy who really batted for Virtanen when the media were slating him after the WJC. Imo he comes over as spoilt, selfish and someone who is always looking to paint himself as a victim. That is not good. This is a great point! Willie did call the media out when they were slagging Jake after the WJC. I do think that Jake earned a lot of what he got with his play and attitude at the WJC. I don't think Willie has ever called Jake out in the media, but Jake has either intentionally or unintentionally called Willie and JB out several times. I'm guessing that coming here for his "stuff" was really meetings to tell Jake exactly where he stands with the organization and what he needs to do to get back to the show. Maybe Willie should have said that, but was sparing Jake's feelings that maybe he doesn't know that his demotion was intended to improve his game, and not as a punishment. I'm speculating, but maybe Jake went to Utica, bitched an moaned to anybody who would listen, and had to be recalled for a dressing down. Jake has always seemed to me to be like those local stars I guys I played against in minor hockey. Tons of natural talent, but didn't work on their game, smoked, drank, and ended up working at the pulp mill after they washed out of semi-pro. Jake still has time, but man he needs to his head straight. He needs to put posters of Bo in his room, and start everyday with the affirmation, "I need to be more like Bo." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted November 27, 2016 Share Posted November 27, 2016 2 minutes ago, elvis15 said: Disagree comparing him to Kane (and even Kassian). Virtanen isn't taking photos of himself talking into stacks of money or grabbing women in bars, nor is he dealing with substance issues. He's just a young player who could use more experience dealing with adversity and the media, and time to work on his game. Most power forwards take a while to figure out their space and role in the NHL. His interviews and NHL career not going as we'd hoped so far is just development, not necessarily outside or personal issues, so no reason to compare to Kane. I think the poster is comparing their "use of the media" Both these players thought they were smart embarrassing the club and in Kassian's case the coach but they were mistaken because most people see it for what it is, and that is immature whining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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