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Virtanen not sure what "stuff" he was suppose to collect


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12 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

Agree for the most part. Even after selecting him I think they messed up Virt's development by rushing him into the NHL. I just read an article on JV and coach Green thinks JV needs to improve in all aspects of the game not just offense. Which we all know anyways. Point is he should have been learning this "stuff" in the jr's last year. 

 

He was rushed and may never recover. 

Always have a facepalm moment when I see people say a prospect's development is messed up by management. Almost as if NHL prospects are delicate glass decorations where each step needs to be micro managed with supreme accuracy. 

 

Or maybe it's just an excuse for prospects who go bust. 

 

It is like life. $&!# happens. If someone is to qualify as an NHL player, he will overcome any obstacle... Nevermind stupid minor ones like which league you played in for your first 2-3 year of your professional career. Case in point, Max Domi has diabetes, is that stopping him from anything? 

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1 minute ago, WHL rocks said:

I disagree. They had 9 games to judge if VIrt is too "dense" to pick up what's being put in front of him. This is what they get paid millions of dollars for. 

 

Can't compare JV to Horvat, or any other player. Can't compare Horvat to McDavid. Different players, different level of talent and different personalities. If you want to do that then why not keep every new prospect with the big team, Horvat did it.... Doesn't work like that.

 

It's management's job to figure out who is good enough and developed enough to be kept up and who isn't. Actually that's precisely their job. That's what they do and that's what they get paid to do...

 

I wasn't comparing them as players I was comparing their chances of staying in the NHL and how they approached it.

Jake finished last season after the WJC pretty well. That is why he probably got the chance, however he seemed to take his chance for granted and it appears he didn't prepare himself for the new season.

None of that can be laid on anyone apart from the player.

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4 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

 

He's not very bright, his hockey IQ translates with his overall IQ as well.  He makes terribly poor decisions on and off the ice

 

I have never seen a player give such a piss poor effort during games and still cause this much drama in the media.  This guy has become cancerous to his room, go watch his Hitmen highlights and notice how his teammates could care less if he scores a goal.  

 

I seem to recall some talk of that just after he was drafted but you hope these players mature when they mix with the vets.

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26 minutes ago, elvis15 said:

Disagree comparing him to Kane (and even Kassian). Virtanen isn't taking photos of himself talking into stacks of money or grabbing women in bars, nor is he dealing with substance issues. He's just a young player who could use more experience dealing with adversity and the media, and time to work on his game. Most power forwards take a while to figure out their space and role in the NHL.

 

His interviews and NHL career not going as we'd hoped so far is just development, not necessarily outside or personal issues, so no reason to compare to Kane.

 

 

He was taking photos of himself with Bieber and didn't shy away making jokes about his late night in this video hanging with Bieber.

 

 

Give him time he is not on the same level as Kassian and Kane with off ice issues but all 3 share the common theme of being immature.

 

Like I said with Kassian maybe with Kane going to his third team will finally wake him up whether that is Vancouver or someplace else knowing he is running out of chances.

 

I always don't think Virtanen will ever get a true wakeup call until he is traded to another NHL team. I doubt he really improves a lot this year in the minors with the cast he is playing with there stats wise.

 

Canucks will be monitoring his work ethic and if he improves his 2 way game and call him back up later in the year.

 

 

Look how chuny he looks in this video in his lower body. No wonder the concerns about maintaining his playing weight are legitimate.

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2 hours ago, Odd. said:

And this is why we're notorious for screwing up prospects. LMAO 

 

How do you figure? Who exactly have we 'screwed up'? And don't go naming prospects from 20 years ago. The only prospect that comes to mind (barely) is Grabner and he was waived by Florida right after the trade, so he doesn't even really count. 

 

If anything, we're notorious for having ignorant fans. 

 

Virtanen needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. This sense of entitlement act is getting old. He needs to shut up and show that he can be a dominant player in the AHL. We didn't draft him to be a 4th line player with a good +/-. I hope he stays in Utica all year until he learns how to be a pro on and off the ice. Uuggh!

 

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1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

 

Maybe we'll find out if Green really does know how to develop prospects in the AHL. Right now I'm not so sure. 

 

Considering how the Utica call-ups have played I'd say he's doing a damn good job.

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22 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

 

I watched Jake in his draft +1 year.   He gave the same poor effort with the Hitmen that he does with us, he was stapled to the bench in key situations almost regularly, took terrible penalties and could not drive any offense.  How he managed to stay at a PPG pace is still beyond me.

 

The kid has been overrated since day 1

 

Do you think this is why we might have thought the Hitmen was a bad organization for Jake development because they didn't deploy him as much as we thought they should've? 

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Just now, The 5th Line said:

 

Of course.  Any time a beloved played and/or prospect isn't doing well the coach or somebody else always takes the blame.  

 

Ouch. You just get straight to it eh? Hahaha. I've always thought it was ironic that you've been so critical of Jake as a guy with "Meat and Potatoes kinda Guy" on his picture. I thought you supported Jake back in the 2014 NHL draft thread? Or am I mistaken?

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56 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

Agree for the most part. Even after selecting him I think they messed up Virt's development by rushing him into the NHL. I just read an article on JV and coach Green thinks JV needs to improve in all aspects of the game not just offense. Which we all know anyways. Point is he should have been learning this "stuff" in the jr's last year. 

 

He was rushed and may never recover. 

 

I disagree with your take on Jake being kept up last year. The WHL is not a league where players learn how to be professionals and round out their game. He would have been all offense, all the time and there's a good chance that he would develop some bad habbits.

 

Jake had an NHL body. He needed to work on the finer details of his game and learn how to be a pro. It's not like he was thrown to the wolves in a 1st line role. He was kept under a watchful eye and practiced hard, all while being in a professional environment. You can't put a price on the value of good leadership, something he wouldn't have got in junior. 

 

So I believe it was the right call to bring him along slowly last year at the NHL level. But this year I believe it was clear from day 1 that he needed to spend significant time in the AHL now that that is an option. He probably should have been sent down right from camp but he wasn't. Big deal though. Doesn't make a difference in the grand scheme of things. He's there now. Time to shut up and prove his worth. 

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53 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

Haha WD totally trolled everyone. I love it.  

Yeah - not that complicated a metaphor reallly - the "stuff" you're supposed to get is one's sh#t together.

 

But on a more serious note - I thought when he reinjured his shoulder in that SJ game in preseason that his season could be in jeopardy.  Not an 'excuse' for him - but not the kind of injury you can just ignore for an 82 game season and 'suck up' - not the type that just goes away in a few weeks - particularly not for the type of player he is or the way he wants/needs to play the game.   I won't be surprised if this year is a relative write off, at least at the NHL level.  Who knows - but it's looked like more than simply a lack of young mental development.

 

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2 hours ago, DeNiro said:

By the time Virtanen is recalled Willie will be gone and he can have his fresh start.

 

He's gotta get back to working hard and earning his minutes though. No coach in the NHL will give him minutes without having solid fundamentals.

 

Well someone will. With the HNIC crew last night talking about Buffalo having scouts in Utica maybe Jim has given up on him and would do a deal involving Kane and Jake. 

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2 hours ago, MJDDawg said:

The more I hear come out of Jake's mouth, the more I think that this is less about what the team is or isn't doing and more about the lack of brain matter between his ears. 

 

IMO, everything he's said from last season up to now has been him saying what he thinks the team and fans want to here, while his actions both in practice and in games indicates he hasn't "heard" a damn thing. At some point, he's going to have to figure it out himself.

 

Now that he's down in the minors, we're still getting the "I don't understand, I don't get it, They haven't talked to me"?  Way to throw your employer and immediate boss under the bus Jake. It'll keep you down in the minors for a good couple of seasons.

 

 

 

I agree. It has been disappointing. He is acting like a kid, which is understandable because he is a kid (still only 20 years old) but we are all hoping for a better response. Hopefully a year in the AHL will mature him. I actually think him starting even next season in the AHL is not out of question. However long it takes for him to work out the details in his game and to mature into a pro. Not sure if 1 season in the AHL will be enough.

 

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hey jake

you acknowledge you would benefit from a year in the ahl

so pack all your stuff as if you will be staying there for a year

i'm confused why there is confusion in your mind about this given what you said

get ready for training camp next sept/oct and try to make the nuck team

but don't take all your stuff with you

you might not make the team

you actually might need 2 years of development in the ahl

best of luck though

i really want you to develop . .as it is so clear that is what you need to do

 

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I can't decide whether this kid is really immature or just plain stupid; or maybe a little of both. 

 

He really needs to get serious; shutup to the press; listen to the coaches; work hard and learn how to be a professional hockey player.

 

Hope they keep him in Utica for a good long while.

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1 minute ago, The 5th Line said:

 

Like in one of my previous comments, I have been critical of him since his draft +1 year.  I thought Nylander was the obvious pick at the time of the draft but I didn't watch either players during their draft years so I'm not going to act like I actually knew what I was talking about.  Watched about a dozen or so Hitmen games during Jake's +1 year and was very rarely impressed with what I saw, Jake's lack of hockey IQ was evident and outside of skating and a hard but not accurate shot, he didn't show any spectacular skills.  The next season he for whatever reason played for the Canucks, he looked intimidated and confused, he didn't show any true work ethic or toughness and at the time I seemed to be one of the only ones who actually noticed it... I took a lot of heat on these boards for putting down his game but now look where we are.

 

 

 

 

Fair enough. Wasn't trying to call you out or anything, was legitimately curious as I thought i remembered somebody with a similar picture constantly talking about how Jake was the best pick and how he'll ram Nylander into the boards. Not trying to throw shade at our boy Jake, but kind of hard to do when one is in the AHL and the other is in the NHL. 

 

Anyways, I got to see some of Nylander play during his draft year through streams and I didn't for Jake. Really liked what I saw from Nylander as he showed a really exciting game. Unfortunately I didn't get to see Jake so I can't really claim I knew everything about him either. However, I didn't really get a good feeling after I heard about how his game is based mainly on speeding through to the net and shooting from people who have seen him. His skill set of speed, power, and shot was enticing, but it didn't sound like he had a deeper understanding of the game. After watching the WJC for myself it kind of just confirmed what I suspected. Didn't make a lot of passes that would've made it an easy tap in for his teammate and just shot it from every and anywhere. Had trouble cycling the puck with teammates as he let it go whenever he touched it. 

 

Watched some more Virtanen during the playoffs in his last year with the Hitmen, short shifts like you mentioned and he had only one move. 

 

Nylander I didn't get to watch in the AHL, but when he played in Sweden and in the WJC, it was like the puck was duct taped to his blade. He was a little selfish in that he likes to hold onto the puck, but never because he never passed the puck. Anticipates the play well as well. 

 

Don't worry man, I didn't really think he played particularly well his rookie year either. Here's to hoping he comes back from the AHL a beast!

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