So impressed with Bo Horvat

[JoesRooster]

Have a wager going on with a friend of mine who is a flames fan. A scoring race between Sam Bennet and Horvat. So glad he's having the year I expected of him. 

[nergish]

3 hours ago, 10pavelbure96 said:

 

The goaltending situation ruined Gillis' reputation. Aside from that and some questionable drafts in the beginning  (albeit we were winning then) he was probably our best gm, or at least 2nd behind Quinn, of all time. Game 7 Stanley Cup final, two presidents trophies, gm of the year in 2011. Plus numerous players and coaches had great seasons under him, Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Vigneault etc.

 

Now we see a lot of the players he left us flourishing. Definitely not perfect and had his blunders, but far from "not very good".

I loved Gillis as a GM.
I loved hearing him speak to the media, the guy was genuinely the most intelligent pure business guy in our team's history. He would get red in the face and look like he was one reuben sandwich away from death, but he always had the perfect response to any question anybody threw at him.

Subtle moves like targeting Samuelson, Demitra (RIP), Pahlsson, Higgins, Lapierre, Ballard, Bernier, etc. all looked really good on paper, and were the right moves to make when your team is that close to the cup. Hell, he even brought one of the most legendary Swedish players of all time to play here, you think the Twins weren't into that? Sure a lot of those did not pan out, but the intention was there. Drafting was sub-par, but that's excusable when you're finishing in the top 5 every year.

He also gave big contracts and NMCs to Luongo and the Sedins... guys he knew he had a responsibility to retain. He did go a little crazy with the contracts, but saw this as a good team with a nice window of opportunity. 

You're absolutely right though. It wasn't until the goaltending situation that he became a league-wide joke. But in reality, even that wasn't so bad. Luongo's contract was borderline unmovable, and he knew he would be absolutely ROASTED by this city if he traded Lu for nothing. So his biggest blunder was lying and saying "it was Lu all along" and not even talking to Roberto before moving Cory. Other than that, I thought Gillis was great.

(also for the record, I jumped out of my chair when I heard we were getting Jacob Markstrom back for Luongo. You can't teach 6'6, and his play this season is proving that he WAS the piece MG wanted out of that trade) (Oddly, I was very against trading Schneids for Bo, but I've come around  )


Jimbo is the polar opposite. Not the most eloquent, says "like" more than anyone I've ever heard, doesn't appear too business savvy... but the guy is a HOCKEY guy first and foremost. That's the difference. Jimbo was a VERY good hockey player, and he simply understands the game. He has an eye for talent. I think we're 1-2 years away from Jim asserting himself as one of the best GMs we've ever had. Hopefully he's still around to do that.

 

 

 

And yes. Bo is a beauty. But we all know that. 

[Kokanee king]

2 hours ago, IbanezRG said:

 

Id be surprised if Bo signs for that little heading into his UFA years.

agreed. just wishful thinking on my end. he will get 7+ mill a year for long term or a 5 mil (cap hit) 2/year bridge deal 

[Mattrek]

1 hour ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

If I'm being honest, to be impressed means he should be exceeding expectations, which he hasn't been, yet.

He is exactly what he was billed as during the draft.

 

As an aside, CS was an all-star game goalie and will likely stay there for the next decade. Will Horvat be an all-star? THAT, would impress me.

 

You expected Horvat in his 3rd NHL season to be outperforming the Sedins and arguably become our 1C? Do tell.

[Mattrek]

1 hour ago, iceman64 said:

Glad your not our GM...  that's way too much for a guy his age not named ovechkin, 4 yrs @ 16 mil-ish would be more like it for his age with production bonus

 

And I'm REALLY glad you're not our GM. Horvat needs to be locked up long term before the cost goes up even higher then it already is. 6-8 year deal 5.5-6.5m per will be a bargain by year 2.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Kokanee king said:

agreed. just wishful thinking on my end. he will get 7+ mill a year for long term or a 5 mil (cap hit) 2/year bridge deal 

What's Couturier getting - 4.75?  Bo should come in around that number, no?  I see a 6 year deal at 27.5 to 30 million. 

[Mattrek]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

What's Couturier getting - 4.75?  Bo should come in around that number, no?  I see a 6 year deal at 27.5 to 30 million. 

 

A first line centre doesn't make less than 5m a year. His price is around 6m right now and trending upwards each game.

[nergish]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

What's Couturier getting - 4.75?  Bo should come in around that number, no?  I see a 6 year deal at 27.5 to 30 million. 

 

Certainly they're comparable, but is Bo not more valuable to our team than Coutourier is to his?
We're talking about a guy that is carrying an entire team on his back and is scheduled to take over captaincy in a matter of years...

This is a young man that bleeds blue+green that WE drafted and DEVELOPED. Give him whatever he wants.

[Alflives]

Just now, Mattrek said:

 

A first line centre doesn't make less than 5m a year. His price is around 6m right now and trending upwards each game.

I love Bo, but any amount over 5 is just too much right now for him.  I know JB wants to lock up Bo long term, but I think if Bo's agent is demanding more that 5AA then JB will go to a two year bridge deal.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, nergish said:

 

Certainly they're comparable, but is Bo not more valuable to our team than Coutourier is to his?
We're talking about a guy that is carrying an entire team on his back and is scheduled to take over captaincy in a matter of years...

This is a young man that bleeds blue+green that WE drafted and DEVELOPED. Give him whatever he wants.

Some would argue the same about Couturier, no?  Bo didn't get picked for that U23 team.  Maybe he should have?

[189lb enforcers?]

15 minutes ago, Mattrek said:

 

You expected Horvat in his 3rd NHL season to be outperforming the Sedins and arguably become our 1C? Do tell.

Not much to tell. And yes, I expected the twins to slowly disappear and for Horvat to be that 220lb Backes type, scoring 65 points a year.

And no, that does not impress me, its expected.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

4 minutes ago, Mattrek said:

 

A first line centre doesn't make less than 5m a year. His price is around 6m right now and trending upwards each game.

Bo has yet to put up over 60 points or even break 20 goals  The players above 6.0 did, along with 30 goal seasons.

 

Monahan 6.3

Scheifele 6.125

Forsberg 6.0

Barkov 5.9

Kucherov 4.8

Trochek 4.7

 

Bo should be somewhere in between..

5.3 for long term sounds about right. 

[Smashian Kassian]

Think about how bad Gillis got lambasted for the goalie situation. And now look at what its really become. Schnieder, Lu, Unmoveable contract for Horvat (potential 1st line C, future captain), Markstrom (potential starting goalie, already playing great), and we also had Matthias who helped us make the playoffs a few years back. (but don't underestimate the value of moving that contract, or underestimate the value of how hard it is in today's NHL to acquire young potential top line players) He took to older assets and turned them into younger assets. Now the younger assets are establishing their value, it was a great move for the prosperity of the team.

 

Not too bad after all, that and bad drafting were the biggest knocks but we are even starting to see some of the fruits of Gillis drafting/developing coming to light aswell, with guys like Hutton, Labate, Gaunce, Rodin, exc starting to show what they can be.

 

Hopefully JB gets the right deal for Horvat, im having trouble thinking of a player since Kesler that has been so dominant offensively while not playing on the Sedin line. And he's still in his early 20's Incredible.

 

 

 

[189lb enforcers?]

11 minutes ago, Mattrek said:

 

A first line centre doesn't make less than 5m a year. His price is around 6m right now and trending upwards each game.

Where is Horvat in league scoring compared to other 1st line centers?

When the season is over, you will know his worth. Then he will get a deal based on that. Happens to players every year.

[nergish]

Just now, Alflives said:

Some would argue the same about Couturier, no?  Bo didn't get picked for that U23 team.  Maybe he should have?

Well, he had the leg up in development going into this season I would say. But the way Bo is playing, he's going to surpass him if he hasn't already. Good point about the U23 team. I was SHOCKED when I saw Bo wasn't even in contention. His offensive skills have flown under the radar, but I don't think anybody's gonna be sleeping on Bo when he ends the year with 50+ points and a direct path to the captaincy in a major Canadian market. He's Trevor Linden incarnate for Pete's sake. 

Couturier has much younger players ahead of him in the lineup, though. It's not like Vorachek or Giroux or Simmonds are anywhere close to being as old as the Twins.
We have no future without Bo, so we need to pay up.

 

 

[189lb enforcers?]

1 minute ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Think about how bad Gillis got lambasted for the goalie situation. And now look

 

 

 

We saw both of them in the all-star game while Bo occupied the 4th line and Markstrom was either on the bench or in the A.

Don't skip over the suckcession plan so fast.

[Smashian Kassian]

4 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

We saw both of them in the all-star game while Bo occupied the 4th line and Markstrom was either on the bench or in the A.

Don't skip over the suckcession plan so fast.

 

Its all part of it, like I said, traded older assets for younger assets that help with the long term prosperity of the team, and setting up another period of success, the moves were never made to pay immediate dividends. You are starting to see now why the moves were made. 

 

Although, while u say that, that year we made the playoffs, and those teams (Florida & NJ) didn't. Part of getting us in that spot was the scoring of another player who was acquired in that trade (Matthias). So it seems like its worked out for all teams involved.

 

[189lb enforcers?]

Just now, Smashian Kassian said:

 

Its all part of it, like I said, traded older assets for younger assets that help with the long term prosperity of the team, and setting up another period of success, the moves were never made to pay immediate dividends. You are starting to see now why the moves were made. 

 

CS was not an old asset. Whatever, I get your point, very base one to make actually, just didn't care for the spit polishing a turd-thing.

 

Like I said, there were two X Canuck goalies for the East team in that all-star game. When Is Bo going to be an all-star? Or our backup goalie?

[Mattrek]

23 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I love Bo, but any amount over 5 is just too much right now for him.  I know JB wants to lock up Bo long term, but I think if Bo's agent is demanding more that 5AA then JB will go to a two year bridge deal.

 

If JB goes for a bridge deal we'll be paying Bo Sedin money the year after. He's on pace for 57 points right now (up from 55 2 games ago). That pace continues to go up every week and makes Bo more and more expensive. A 1C that has a great two way game at 20 years old, who is still by the way developing, is a bargain by year 2 of a long term deal. The cap continues to go up so 5m will look cheap in a few years. I would be ecstatic with a long term deal for anything starting with a 5, but at this point it's extremely unlikely. Unless it's Sedin money then sign him long term now while the price is lower.

[Butters Stoch]

Schneider was a future for now trade, a risky one, but its looking like it'll work out now with Bo reaching his potential. Gillis was just getting started with the rebuild after our two goalies were traded away. Unfortunately, he never got a chance to do it and JB was brought in to try and make the team competitive again instead of rebuilding.