wallstreetamigo Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 40 minutes ago, oldnews said: I've probably put as much or more effort than anyone here into looking at Canucks systems - from AV to Tortorella to WD. And it's still only scratching the surface - and that pretty much illustrates my main point. There was the most wealth of information available regarding Tortorella's systems - and I went to the greatest length to understand his, because they made so little sense to me. I didn't simply call him/them out though, or call for his head - I laid out what they actually were to the best of my ability and explained what didn't make sense to me. That was my onus. I've offered what I can regarding Desjardins' - but the onus isn't really on me - I'm not calling him out, attempting to one up him, fire or replace him, or suggest that he has absolutely no ability to make adjustments. I'd just think that those things would require a bit more knowledge of what he's actually doing. Are there any criticisms that you have about Desjardins? His is decisions in the Anaheim game have no need to be analyzed down to the finite details of systems etc. If you play the guy who has been your best and most productive player significantly less that stands as a decision in itself. What reasons did Willie give? To to get another player - Eriksson - "going". He has 7 points including 6 goals in 11 games. No real need to do anything other than what you have been doing with him. He wanted to play the 4th line more. They played well but really why? It's not like they have played any worse in most games. Why that game? Nevermind the obvious fact that the Sedins got 21 min of ice time. That means they took at least a few minutes of that time from Bo, it didn't just come from Eriksson or the 4th line. I wonder if you consider it criticism-worthy that Desjardins said he didn't remember just how badly Kesler neutered the Sedins head to head. He had home ice change. Why give Anaheim the matchup they clearly want? That to me is what people should question. He had Sedin blinders on and failed to adjust when it clearly wasn't working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucksnihilist Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Was at this game.... unbelievable. No effort. Especially noticeable from the vets. Embarrasing to be there for $192 per ticket. we are keeping the sedins so we have a winning environment for the young players... what???? Not working out so well is it. Painful to watch them now.... they should be tertiary players at this point... not first line. sedins are done. This team doesn't take a step until their contracts expire... another year isn't it?? They should have been offered 2 year contracts this last round..... what was the risk? Why did we need to lock aging players up??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditall Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Never heard so much crying over one f&!$%#n loss... Miller should've had the 3rd & probably 2nd. So what we lost a game we were suppose to. I was going to the game & even I predicted we would lose 3-2 in the prediction thread if u don't believe me. So we lost a game pretty much everyone thought we'd lose, especially me after our last few wins, we were do. Cry me a river... We also are without our #1 & #2 defencemen & a our top 6 speed ball & were facing a legit Cup Contending Team. Ya we lost... U know we do still have 60 more games to play. And Bo will play, U know he'll play, he'll play lots of more hockey... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucksnihilist Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 2 minutes ago, hearditall said: Never heard so much crying over one f&!$%#n loss... Miller should've had the 3rd & probably 2nd. So what we lost a game we were suppose to. I was going to the game & even I predicted we would lose 3-2 in the prediction thread if u don't believe me. So we lost a game pretty much everyone thought we'd lose, especially me after our last few wins, we were do. Cry me a river... We also are without our #1 & #2 defencemen & a our top 6 speed ball & were facing a legit Cup Contending Team. Ya we lost... U know we do still have 6 more games to play. And Bo will play, U know he'll play, he'll play lots of more hockey... Not the loss... just lack of effort. They didn't care. Regardless of the fact that I believe they need good draft picks... I don't think they shouldn't try. If u really suck you deserve the draft picks. If u tank u shouldn't get a draft pick imho... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditall Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Just now, canucksnihilist said: Not the loss... just lack of effort. They didn't care. Regardless of the fact that I believe they need good draft picks... I don't think they shouldn't try. If u really suck you deserve the draft picks. If u tank u shouldn't get a draft pick imho... Totally agree that that was horrible. We never won a battle for a puck. Boring game. More like a one of if you've actually been watching this team lately... Bet we win battles tomorrow night. Bet we show effort. Does that now mean WD is the best? It's a 82 game season with a team predicted to be a bottom feeder. We were 6-3-1 before that game. Not bad at all for a 65 point team. Were u expecting a Cup this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Give credit where credit is due. The Ducks played a great road game. It isn't always about how bad your team plays, sometimes the other team is a lot better on that particular night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyoung Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 19 hours ago, Gooseberries said: Here take my minus for the day. I'm sure this loss has nothing to do with OUR ENTIRE TOP PAIRING OUT. Clearly all WDs fault. and I'm sure your not going to credit WD for the over .500 hockey we've been playing for the last 2 weeks. against some good teams mind you. Haha would you relax. It doesn't matter that much what he has done in the last two weeks, he hasn't been coaching well at all. I love the guy but he's struggling, what I'm saying is that most coaches in that position would have been let go a while ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 21 hours ago, Down by the River said: A coach that does not do his research and does not know his matchups. You're at HOME. If you're going to play the Sedins over Bo, at least get them the right matchup. Yes, WD does not have a ton to work with, and yes, these decisions are not what is keeping the Canucks from winning a cup this year. However, when the lineup is this thin, you need a coach that is detail-oriented and can squeeze blood from a stone. WD is not demonstrating either of these qualities. I'm more concerned about the fact that he realized AFTER the game that he should have played Bo more. In other words, it wasn't some mistake that he made in handling the lines, he was consciously choosing to not play Bo as much, and then regretted it afterward. I don't think Horvat's lack of TOI is on purpose. Who on the bench is running a watch on each player's TOI? To me it is WD's tactical reaction to the game. In his PG he said the 4th line was playing a strong game and he gave them more minutes. I agree with him that they should have had more minutes. The issue becomes who loses the TOI and it was Horvat's line. Desjardin leans towards the Twins because of their #1 status and I suspect a pecking order within the team. Even tho Horvat is establishing his claim to the #1 spot I think management is slowing the transition because they think Bo has been rushed somewhat over his first few years. Since my theme with this club this season is that of development and evaluation I feel that Horvat should be at 18 minutes per game and that time should come from the Twins. I love that Desjardin has put a vet like Burrows with Horvat. When Hanson is healthy either he or Burrows can continue that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 12 hours ago, DIBdaQUIB said: Somehow, we got onto systems from what were comments I made about WD's deployment. It is very likely you are more informed regarding the systems but regardless of what WD's are, I question the deployment of individuals within those systems. As for the previous discussion on the Calgary series, I expressed concern about Sedin deployment NOT performance, as you seem to have read it. I agree the twins were dominating which is why it was such a puzzlement that WD reduced their ice time below normal. Regarding deployment (not systems) I too am trying to express how WD's use of certain players makes no sense to me. I have been clear on some specifics from last game that WD tried to explain away with rather odd rationale. To me, he is making strange and hard to justify deployments that he himself cannot satisfactorily explain. Even JB seemed to struggle to answer the question of WD's deployment of Bo after last game. Who knows...WD may be a genius and his moves may make this team a contender by next year...JB may be directing a stealth tank...the owners may be meddling. All I know is, WD's decisions don't make sense based on the stated goal of this team. I don't know Dib - there's so much going on for a coach to sort out - I guess I'm just not as disappointed with him. There are a number of things I like - and some not so much (I'd prefer to see Markstrom at least in a tandem role, not a backup to Miller). I did misread your comment about the Sedins - that you were saying they were under-deployed. They were insanely dominant in that series - like a combined +120/130 in shot attempts through 6 games - and playing about 19 minutes a night. I guess they coulda played more, but they aint spring chickens and that was a pretty high pace series at the end of a long season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditall Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 12 hours ago, LaBamba said: Give credit where credit is due. The Ducks played a great road game. It isn't always about how bad your team plays, sometimes the other team is a lot better on that particular night. Well said my friend. Short & true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 1 hour ago, oldnews said: I don't know Dib - there's so much going on for a coach to sort out - I guess I'm just not as disappointed with him. There are a number of things I like - and some not so much (I'd prefer to see Markstrom at least in a tandem role, not a backup to Miller). I did misread your comment about the Sedins - that you were saying they were under-deployed. They were insanely dominant in that series - like a combined +120/130 in shot attempts through 6 games - and playing about 19 minutes a night. I guess they coulda played more, but they aint spring chickens and that was a pretty high pace series at the end of a long season... Agree on Markstrom. His time is now to show what he has. I was a little disappointed to hear Trevor say they are considering bringing Miller back for another year. Markstrom has been patient and I think deserves a chance to show he can run with it. Hard to do when playing 1 game in 3...no groove. I figured 2015 was the twins last real chance to make a push into the playoffs so "saving" them didn't seem to make sense to me. So many moving parts with this team and injuries don't help. Oh well, I will be watching whoever they choose to put on the ice and hope for the best for all of them, including WD. Tonight should be interesting but in all likelihood will be anti-climactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditall Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 On 02/12/2016 at 5:15 PM, DIBdaQUIB said: I was willing to debate WD's performance and abilities but as you had no response based on facts, you have instead chosen to switch tactics and lay the responsibility at the feet of the assistants. Next up, you will be blaming the trainers or equipment managers. Take some pointers from Old News...we do not share the same view on all things WD but I can respect his points and even give him the W on a couple things. He is still sadly mistaken on many things though Bo Horvat 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 1 1 24 8 75% 33 20:40 And Canucks won 3-2. 7-4-1 last 12... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditall Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 On 02/12/2016 at 2:40 PM, wallstreetamigo said: They were projected that way based on a few assumptions that quickly have severely changed. No one anticipated Stecher coming in and looking like he could be that offensive dman we are lacking. No one knew Tryamkin would be as good as he has been. There were doubts about Baertschi, Granlund, etc. That 65 pt projection was unrealistically low even in a worst case scenario though. This team is a lot better talent wise than they get credit for, especially with the emergence of the young players. The over reliance on the Sedins is the real drag on this team's performance imo. To to me it's not about one game. It's about the consistent head scratching and counter-intuitive moves Desjardins has made in his time here. We were 6-3-1 BECAUSE of the Horvat line to a large degree. Why change that? Bo Horvat 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 1 1 24 8 75% 33 20:40 C Canucks won 3-2. 7-4-1 last 12... Fire WD he played Bo over 20 min... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wallstreetamigo Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 6 hours ago, hearditall said: Bo Horvat 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 1 1 24 8 75% 33 20:40 C Canucks won 3-2. 7-4-1 last 12... Fire WD he played Bo over 20 min... Like I said in the post you quoted, it's not about one game. Let's see if he continues to make those personnel decisions when he has Hansen and Dorsett back. Given his history, I have my doubts. Also, him actually using Bo more doesn't really answer my question of why he chose to limit his best player the game before. That's the concern I have about Desjardins. He makes head scratching moves that far more often than not don't work out. Another one that was interesting was keeping Larsen in. Larsen should probably not have been in again in the Toronto game after his performance the game before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIBdaQUIB Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 1 hour ago, wallstreetamigo said: Like I said in the post you quoted, it's not about one game. Let's see if he continues to make those personnel decisions when he has Hansen and Dorsett back. Given his history, I have my doubts. Also, him actually using Bo more doesn't really answer my question of why he chose to limit his best player the game before. That's the concern I have about Desjardins. He makes head scratching moves that far more often than not don't work out. Another one that was interesting was keeping Larsen in. Larsen should probably not have been in again in the Toronto game after his performance the game before. I am aware that WD has a challenge with this roster, especially with some of the injuries being experienced but I too struggle with his logic and his deployment/support for certain players. Markstrom's stats would indicate he has been a little better than Miller this year yet, in the 19 games Miller has been available to play in, he got the call in 14. Apart from back-to-back starts for Marky, he is basically been a bench warmer. If Miller was lights out it would maybe make sense but with both goalies playing similarly, I just don't get his great love for Miller. IN his recent presser he gushes about MiIler being one of the best in the game...really? With Bo, we have discussed his deployment to death but despite all his defensive assignments, he is leading the team in goals and points. The kid is a stud and the only one that seems reluctant to acknowledge that is WD. IN his pressers when asked about Bo, it looks like he is trying to crap a watermelon when he has to say nice things unlike his hard-on for Miller and some others. Instead of pumping Bo up, he seems determined to down-play his contribution and often deflects the question by saying that line has been good instead of commenting on how Bo is often driving the bus. This year's Weber is Larsen. IF they are hoping to trade him, they would be best not to play him. Every game just shows he is not an NHL calibre d-man. With Biega available, why does WD continue to risk the all important points by putting this guy in the line up? It is confusing that in some ways he seems willing to do anything to scratch out a point and yet in others, he makes personnel decisions that appear based on stealth tanking or something a team committed to developing new players regardless of winning would do. His latest trend of shortening the bench and rolling 3 lines in the third period is head-scratching as well. For a coach who reduced the Sedins' ice time 2 years ago against Calgary when they were dominant forces to now playing them north of 20 minutes, largely late in games, is puzzling and certainly not sustainable. It will be interesting to see what he does when he gets his favorite toys back (Dorsett , Edler) and can once again relegates BO to 4ht line duties behind Hank, Granlund and Sutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditall Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 4 hours ago, wallstreetamigo said: Like I said in the post you quoted, it's not about one game. Let's see if he continues to make those personnel decisions when he has Hansen and Dorsett back. Given his history, I have my doubts. Also, him actually using Bo more doesn't really answer my question of why he chose to limit his best player the game before. That's the concern I have about Desjardins. He makes head scratching moves that far more often than not don't work out. Another one that was interesting was keeping Larsen in. Larsen should probably not have been in again in the Toronto game after his performance the game before. What NHL coach do u understand? Did u agree with all of Torts' moves? AV in my eyes was the Canucks best coach next to Quinn yet he did things that everyone questioned. That's why no one on CDC is an NHL coach, they don't & never will understand it. WD's head scratching moves in the past 12 games has them at 7-4-1. Seem to be working out OK lately... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditall Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 On 04/12/2016 at 8:25 AM, wallstreetamigo said: Like I said in the post you quoted, it's not about one game. Let's see if he continues to make those personnel decisions when he has Hansen and Dorsett back. Given his history, I have my doubts. Also, him actually using Bo more doesn't really answer my question of why he chose to limit his best player the game before. That's the concern I have about Desjardins. He makes head scratching moves that far more often than not don't work out. Another one that was interesting was keeping Larsen in. Larsen should probably not have been in again in the Toronto game after his performance the game before. Bo Horvat 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 1 1 10 6 63% 26 21:01 Daniel Sedin 1 1 2 0 0 2 0 0 0 2 2 0 100% 25 18:53 Henrik Sedin 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 7 8 47% 25 18:4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditall Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 On 02/12/2016 at 9:54 PM, DIBdaQUIB said: Feel free to post a quote of mine where I say that. Bo Horvat 0 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 1 1 10 6 63% 26 21:01 Daniel Sedin 1 1 2 0 0 2 0 0 0 2 2 0 100% 25 18:53 Henrik Sedin 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 7 8 47% 25 18:4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hearditall Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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