Rebuilding from the net out: The Current State of the Franchise

[Bert Diesel]

          Although it's nice to win (especially against the Leafs) it's in the team's best interest to finish in the bottom 5-10 in the league for another year. With Juolevi, Boeser and some of the other prospects coming into the system in the next few years, the organization will get stronger from Utica up. Right now it's somewhat amazing to see this new young defense core come out of nowhere. Stecher, Tryamkin and Hutton have been beams of light through a dark past few years.

 

        For all the whining I here about the Lindbenning regime on social media and on this board, people don't give them enough credit for making some shrewd moves(just as Gillis was often unfairly criticized). Losing a guy like Corrado on waivers or failing to gain assets for Vrbata and Hamhuis were minor mistakes when you compare them to the finds they have garnered in the later rounds of the draft or, like Stecher, in free agency. The scrutiny of the media in this town creates an environment where the most minor mistakes are evidence of a general incompetence from management or a conspiracy from ownership. Can you imagine the reaction in this town if we had traded Lawson Crouse to get rid of the Dave Bolland contract as the new GM in Florida did recently. The pitchforks would have been out in full force. People shouldn't forget that the current management hands were tied with No-trade clauses, many of which were given out as rewards for previous sweetheart contracts and a highly successful era under Gillis. Yes, the team is going through some pain since the Tortorella year but our pain is extremely minor compared to the likes of Toronto or Edmonton who have suffered for over a decade. Have some perspective people. 

 

       Comparing the team to last year, the Canucks' defense could have never sustained the injuries it has this year and still remained competitive. Having Bartowski, Weber and Biega on the back end was an unmitigated disaster but the options were limited. Benning has managed to rebuild the defensive core in a rapid fashion. With Tanev and Edler out, they have the youngest defensive core in the league. If were are rebuilding from the net out, they now have a stable of young prospects (Demko, Garteig, Juolevi, Brisebois, Subban, Pedan, Neil) as well as the Hutton, Stech and Tryamkin trio already making big NHL contributions. This also allows for the possibility that the team could trade one of the more veteran guys (Tanev, Gudbranson or Edler) for some picks or young forwards. 

 

        The clear weakness of this years team is the lack of depth in the forward ranks. Having Megna and Chaput as regular forwards illustrates this. Injuries have hurt particularly Hansen and Rodin. The last few drafts have seen us gather Boeser, Lockwood and Gaudette all three have blossomed in the NCAA this year and last but there is still not enough organizational depth here particularly with the MCcan trade(I wonder if they'd take that one back). There is an obvious lack of size and speed in the Canucks as currently constructed. Virtanen and Boeser could help solve this problem but the regime needs to come out of the 2017 draft with a young, blue chip forward preferably a center. Ideally, the Canucks need to drop the Sedin's down to third or fourth line minutes and powerplay time if they are going to survive a few more seasons. In order to do this, they need to get an offensive threat coming out of junior. This may take about 2-3 seasons but the great positive of this year is that the team is more fun to watch and much more competitive despite not always seeing success in the standings.

 

[Nuxfanabroad]

Well stated. Especially agree with 2nd para.

[Mr.DirtyDangles]

Corrado is useless, Vrbata was worthless at the time and Dallas just effed up.     Other than that I agree

[Bur14Kes17]

Props OP and well said. I'm actually incredibly happy with the state of this franchise and Benning has done exactly what he said he'd do. Build this franchise from the net out. I honestly never expected defense to be the strength of this franchise but Benning had made some shrewd picks and stocked our defensive cupboard for the next 8 years. Gudbranson Hutton Stetcher, Tryamkin, Juolevi, Briesbois, Carl Niel, Tate Olsen Subban Pedan. 

 

Our forward cupboards are definiteky our weak spot and the next to be addressed but I can see our franchise rebuild being complete in two years time. This years 1st round pick to be added, and we already have Brock Boeser, Will Lockwood, and Adam Gaudette who have all surpassed expectation and look like early winners. Add Jake in there however he turns out and add that mix to our current young forwards of Horvat Baertschi Grandlund Gaunce and possibly Rodin, it's not hard to see this team being great again in two years

[Lockhart]

We need to get a legitimate 1C or a pure goal scorer in this draft. Missing out on Dubois put us back a bit, I have no doubts that Juolevi is going to turn out to be a a solid first pairing D man, but I really wanted Dubois at 5.

[Bert Diesel]

Stecher, Tryamkin and Hutton have sped up the rebuild by three years IMO. All three would go in the first round if there was a re-draft from each of their respective years. Also, the Granlund for Shinkaruk trade looks great at the moment; Shinkaruk will likely be on waivers by next year.

[Zhukini]

What people have to realize is that there are multiple ways to win. I keep seeing that we need to replace the Sedins to have any chance to compete for the cup.

It would be nice but not a necessity. I see this team in its prime winning games in a very simmilar fashion to the 06/07 version

[ReggieBush]

59 minutes ago, Bert Diesel said:

          Although it's nice to win (especially against the Leafs) it's in the team's best interest to finish in the bottom 5-10 in the league for another year. With Juolevi, Boeser and some of the other prospects coming into the system in the next few years, the organization will get stronger from Utica up. Right now it's somewhat amazing to see this new young defense core come out of nowhere. Stecher, Tryamkin and Hutton have been beams of light through a dark past few years.

 

        For all the whining I here about the Lindbenning regime on social media and on this board, people don't give them enough credit for making some shrewd moves(just as Gillis was often unfairly criticized). Losing a guy like Corrado on waivers or failing to gain assets for Vrbata and Hamhuis were minor mistakes when you compare them to the finds they have garnered in the later rounds of the draft or, like Stecher, in free agency. The scrutiny of the media in this town creates an environment where the most minor mistakes are evidence of a general incompetence from management or a conspiracy from ownership. Can you imagine the reaction in this town if we had traded Lawson Crouse to get rid of the Dave Bolland contract as the new GM in Florida did recently. The pitchforks would have been out in full force. People shouldn't forget that the current management hands were tied with No-trade clauses, many of which were given out as rewards for previous sweetheart contracts and a highly successful era under Gillis. Yes, the team is going through some pain since the Tortorella year but our pain is extremely minor compared to the likes of Toronto or Edmonton who have suffered for over a decade. Have some perspective people. 

 

       Comparing the team to last year, the Canucks' defense could have never sustained the injuries it has this year and still remained competitive. Having Bartowski, Weber and Biega on the back end was an unmitigated disaster but the options were limited. Benning has managed to rebuild the defensive core in a rapid fashion. With Tanev and Edler out, they have the youngest defensive core in the league. If were are rebuilding from the net out, they now have a stable of young prospects (Demko, Garteig, Juolevi, Brisebois, Subban, Pedan, Neil) as well as the Hutton, Stech and Tryamkin trio already making big NHL contributions. This also allows for the possibility that the team could trade one of the more veteran guys (Tanev, Gudbranson or Edler) for some picks or young forwards. 

 

        The clear weakness of this years team is the lack of depth in the forward ranks. Having Megna and Chaput as regular forwards illustrates this. Injuries have hurt particularly Hansen and Rodin. The last few drafts have seen us gather Boeser, Lockwood and Gaudette all three have blossomed in the NCAA this year and last but there is still not enough organizational depth here particularly with the MCcan trade(I wonder if they'd take that one back). There is an obvious lack of size and speed in the Canucks as currently constructed. Virtanen and Boeser could help solve this problem but the regime needs to come out of the 2017 draft with a young, blue chip forward preferably a center. Ideally, the Canucks need to drop the Sedin's down to third or fourth line minutes and powerplay time if they are going to survive a few more seasons. In order to do this, they need to get an offensive threat coming out of junior. This may take about 2-3 seasons but the great positive of this year is that the team is more fun to watch and much more competitive despite not always seeing success in the standings.

 

11

 

In what world do you stick the sedins on a 4th line?

[Bur14Kes17]

19 minutes ago, Lockhart said:

We need to get a legitimate 1C or a pure goal scorer in this draft. Missing out on Dubois put us back a bit, I have no doubts that Juolevi is going to turn out to be a a solid first pairing D man, but I really wanted Dubois at 5.

Agreed. All this team needs to do is draft a #1 centre and winger before this rebuild is complete IMO.  Getting Tryamkin and Hutton in late rounds and Stetcher as a free agent have sped up this rebuild by at least 3 years

[Bert Diesel]

7 minutes ago, ReggieBush said:

 

In what world do you stick the sedins on a 4th line?

People get far too fixated on the assignment of lines. What I mean is that they need to have a decreased role on the team in the next few years. Theoretically, if they sign another contract after the current one(for less $), they could be a great fourth line who could play on the Powerplay.

[IbanezRG]

1) future and current goaltending, check.

 

2) future and current defensemen, check.

 

3) future centres and wingers, almost check.

 

Imo were lacking two elite wingers that play a similar game to Bo that would elevate him to a 1C, or we still hunt down a playmaking centre with hands for a future 1C. I think at this point I'd put my money on Bo and take the risk of making him the future 1C

[CeeBee51]

Just now, IbanezRG said:

1) future and current goaltending, check.

 

2) future and current defensemen, check.

 

3) future centres and wingers, almost check.

 

Imo were lacking two elite wingers that play a similar game to Bo that would elevate him to a 1C, or we still hunt down a playmaking centre with hands for a future 1C. I think at this point I'd put my money on Bo and take the risk of making him the future 1C

Boeser might be one of those wingers, we don't know yet. Hopefully this year we draft another building block. Certainly agree with the general premise though.

[Aircool]

This team has sustained through injuries to the defense? Really? I'm interested to hear how you came to that conclusion... We started off with a much better record last year than this year (at least that's my perception).... I mean, the Edler injury did kill us last year... He's played 21 out of our 25 games this year (although he is now going to miss more)... The notion that our team buckled under injuries to our defense last year isn't really an accurate one. It buckled under injuries to Edler, because let's face it Sutter was gone the whole year, so you can't use him as a justification for the two different teams we saw in the first and second half of the season....

 

If you think that being 11/12/2 is remaining competitive then you are a lost cause.....

[LaBamba]

Every time we win or lose we have multiple threads that talk about the state of the franchise for the next 5 years. I know everyone thinks we are a lock to win the Stanley cup in 5 years after Miller stood on his head to prevent a complete blowout last night but let's come down to earth for a moment here guys. 

 

All these prospects are great to be excited about but not exactly something to be basing "the state of the franchise" off of. You would think a group of Canuck fans of all people would have more restraint when counting victories at the draft table before they play a single NHL game. 

[Aircool]

5 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

Every time we win or lose we have multiple threads that talk about the state of the franchise for the next 5 years. I know everyone thinks we are a lock to win the Stanley cup in 5 years after Miller stood on his head to prevent a complete blowout last night but let's come down to earth for a moment here guys. 

 

All these prospects are great to be excited about but not exactly something to be basing "the state of the franchise" off of. You would think a group of Canuck fans of all people would have more restraint when counting victories at the draft table before they play a single NHL game. 

 

I watched a couple NHL games yesterday from around the league... I was flicking between Buffalo-Boston and Chicago-Philadelphia... It's kind of sad to watch real hockey being played.... The puck movement is just so much better than our team, our puck movement is so pathetic.... I don't know if that's coaching or talent (probably a lot of both to be honest) but we're not winning a cup for at least 10 years.... Our team plays horrible hockey.... It's as simple as that.

[Bur14Kes17]

3 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

Every time we win or lose we have multiple threads that talk about the state of the franchise for the next 5 years. I know everyone thinks we are a lock to win the Stanley cup in 5 years after Miller stood on his head to prevent a complete blowout last night but let's come down to earth for a moment here guys. 

 

All these prospects are great to be excited about but not exactly something to be basing "the state of the franchise" off of. You would think a group of Canuck fans of all people would have more restraint when counting victories at the draft table before they play a single NHL game. 

I don't think anyone is counting our eggs before they hatch. Let's be honest here, we're talking about who we're filling our cupboards with and how long before they could challenge for an NHL roster spot. College kids are a minimum 2 year but need to be signed after their 3rd before or they becomes UFAs. That gives us a rough timeline for when we can expect Boeser Gaudette and Lockwood to enter the fold. Based on their college numbers though, Gaudette and Lockwood currently project to around 40 pt players and I think we all hope Boeser is that 1st line winger capable of 70 points. 

Fact is as a Canuck fan, there's reason to be excited because Stetcher Hutton and Tryamkin have literally all been huge surprises and have cut our rebuild time in half and now we can just focus on drafting forwards.

[Bert Diesel]

12 minutes ago, Aircool said:

This team has sustained through injuries to the defense? Really? I'm interested to hear how you came to that conclusion... We started off with a much better record last year than this year (at least that's my perception).... I mean, the Edler injury did kill us last year... He's played 21 out of our 25 games this year (although he is now going to miss more)... The notion that our team buckled under injuries to our defense last year isn't really an accurate one. It buckled under injuries to Edler, because let's face it Sutter was gone the whole year, so you can't use him as a justification for the two different teams we saw in the first and second half of the season....

 

If you think that being 11/12/2 is remaining competitive then you are a lost cause.....

There's no denying the team is still weak( and it has to be for a while if they're serious about rebuilding) but are you seriously questioning the positive impact of Stecher, Hutton and Tryamkin. Edmonton's rebuild had them searching for these type of players for ten years. As a fan, I try to remain positive and looking at the rebuilt D is a cause for celebration but hardly completes the rebuild.

[Bert Diesel]

15 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

Every time we win or lose we have multiple threads that talk about the state of the franchise for the next 5 years. I know everyone thinks we are a lock to win the Stanley cup in 5 years after Miller stood on his head to prevent a complete blowout last night but let's come down to earth for a moment here guys. 

 

All these prospects are great to be excited about but not exactly something to be basing "the state of the franchise" off of. You would think a group of Canuck fans of all people would have more restraint when counting victories at the draft table before they play a single NHL game. 

The post was not basing the state of the franchise on a win or loss or any prospects in particular. It was just a general overview of the current predicament.

[Chris_P]

I'm scared about Boeser pulling a Vesey and walking as a free agent. That would be a killer. I hope he signs.

[Aircool]

5 minutes ago, Bert Diesel said:

There's no denying the team is still weak( and it has to be for a while if they're serious about rebuilding) but are you seriously questioning the positive impact of Stecher, Hutton and Tryamkin. Edmonton's rebuild had them searching for these type of players for ten years. As a fan, I try to remain positive and looking at the rebuilt D is a cause for celebration but hardly completes the rebuild.

 

Of course having assets is better than not having assets... Although I think you overrate these players a little... Like let's see them perform at a higher level first before we assume that we no longer need to draft more defensemen.... Like that's more than a bit of a stretch. Your timelines are just out of whack with reality... We don't need to be bottom 5-10 for one more year, it's more like 3 more years... At least if your goal is the cup, if you just want to sneak into/narrowly miss the playoffs and get bounced in the first round for the next 15 years, you could probably do that with one or two more young pieces.... I don't care for mediocrity, my bar is always winning the cup. I don't expect it to happen easily nor quickly, but I judge all decision-making with that objective in mind.... our defense is not even close to a cup winning defense, even if you assume Olli Juolevi turns into a #1 defenseman... We are still short on the back end... I know you are happy to see young talent, I am too, don't overvalue it. It's not worth what you think it's worth YET!!! (emphasis on YET)