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Article - Leafs' reno on pace, while Canucks lagging behind


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1 hour ago, appleboy said:

I am not sure the first overall is the pick you want this year. Patrick has not even played since his first 6 games and now he will not be ready for WJ. Is he a safe pick or will he be injury prone. If you don't pick him and then he turns out this market will go nuts.

Anywhere in the top 5 will be nice. 

Yeah I went to the Giants-Wheat Kings game and was disappointed he wasn't playing, it may affect his position in this coming draft, from the looks of it this year's draft basically falls right off after the first 3 projected players.  We don't need another Dman so there's Hirschier, Tolvanen and of course Patrick and out of those 3 I have some interest in Eeli Tolvanen- kind of a Taransenko type shooter.

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26 minutes ago, appleboy said:

It is not something that I would be very pleased with. Every draft that we waist is one more year we need latter.

 

Hopefully that would mean that the Sedin era was over and we could start a proper rebuild. That would mean we would be resigning them and the future would be about the youth.

 

What makes it a 'waste' though? Is the idea of the draft not to get young, NHL players? So if we trade our 1st+ for someone like Landeskog or Reinhart etc, how exactly is that a 'waste'?

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22 minutes ago, Creepy Crawler said:

Yeah I went to the Giants-Wheat Kings game and was disappointed he wasn't playing, it may affect his position in this coming draft, from the looks of it this year's draft basically falls right off after the first 3 projected players.  We don't need another Dman so there's Hirschier, Tolvanen and of course Patrick and out of those 3 I have some interest in Eeli Tolvanen- kind of a Taransenko type shooter.

 

BPA.

 

If we draft say Liljegren, it simply makes one of our other D expendable down the line. You then move them to fill the other holes in your lineup. If Lil is ready in say 2 years and makes say Stetcher or Hutton etc expendable...they'd sure garner a handsome return.

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6 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

What makes it a 'waste' though? Is the idea of the draft not to get young, NHL players? So if we trade our 1st+ for someone like Landeskog or Reinhart etc, how exactly is that a 'waste'?

If it was a deal involving someone like Landeskog then it would be a steal. Chances of that are very slim. It will more then likely be an older player.

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8 minutes ago, J.R. said:

The 'facts' are, that our D and goaltending has largely been rebuilt (though I'm sure it will continue to be tweaked). Those also tend to be the pieces that take the longest to develop. I sure wouldn't trade our D and goalie youngsters for theirs.

No that is your opinion. Tryamkin and Stecher have a combined 46 games in the NHL. Juolevi has yet to even play a game in the NHL. We have no idea how these players will progress in a few years. We can hope for the best and be optimistic about their growth but we don't have a crystal ball to tell us where these guys will be 3-4 years from now. At one point the Pittsburgh Penguins had the most enviable D prospect depth in the league with Maata, Pouliot, Morrow, Harrington and Despres. How many of them are still with Pittsburgh? Penguins fans then were penciling these guys into their future lineups as well and boasting about one day having the best D in the NHL.

 

If you ask Leafs fans as well they will boast about Andrew Nielsen (61st overall, 2015) a 6'3 blueliner with a good shot and excellent offensive instincts who also has 15 points in 21 games in his first season in the pros. They have Travis Dermott (35th overall, 2015) as well who is projected to be a top 4 defenseman one day. The idea that they are somehow devoid of talent at the position is false. They have stockpiled picks and used them on some interesting prospects on D, we will have to see whether some of those picks end up paying off for them.

 

Benning has done an admirable job acquiring talent but to say that we are now set at D just because we have some young talent at the position is shortsighted. It is the same with goaltending, I have a lot of faith in Demko, more than most of the prospects in the organization but until he can do what he did in college in the NHL I don't want to consider that position to be "set" for the long term. This applies to Markstrom as well, I wouldn't claim he is a starter until he can actually take upon a starter's workload and deliver results while doing so. I love the excitement of Canucks fans but there seems to be a lot of 'counting your chickens before they hatch' going on.

 

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31 minutes ago, Creepy Crawler said:

Yeah I went to the Giants-Wheat Kings game and was disappointed he wasn't playing, it may affect his position in this coming draft, from the looks of it this year's draft basically falls right off after the first 3 projected players.  We don't need another Dman so there's Hirschier, Tolvanen and of course Patrick and out of those 3 I have some interest in Eeli Tolvanen- kind of a Taransenko type shooter.

Rasmussen and Popugayev are ones that would be high on my list as well. Liljegren would mean you are very set at defense.

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42 minutes ago, Creepy Crawler said:

Yeah I went to the Giants-Wheat Kings game and was disappointed he wasn't playing, it may affect his position in this coming draft, from the looks of it this year's draft basically falls right off after the first 3 projected players.  We don't need another Dman so there's Hirschier, Tolvanen and of course Patrick and out of those 3 I have some interest in Eeli Tolvanen- kind of a Taransenko type shooter.

You don't pass over a guy because you think you are fine at that position, especially if that player is significantly better than a player at a position you think you need.  If you are drafting top 10, you draft BPA.

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2 hours ago, appleboy said:

The Canucks were in a different circumstance. The twins contract value and the fact that they have a NMC make it impossible to do what Toronto did. However we are still farther along in our own rebuild then people think. Benning has done very well considering the fact that they didn't blow things up. We will still draft very high this year even though they are trying to win or they will move the pick for more youth. (I hope it is for youth)

 

 

Toronto took ten years to tear tha down. They let Sundin retire.  The Twins are in the drivers seat, the only thing that would speed up the process is to get them to request a trade (good luck) our have them retire this year. 

 

JB is doing fine with the young guys coming in. It would have been really nice to have picked at 2 in the draft.  Doubt we would have so much angst on the board of Laine was on the team.  That was due to luck, only luck. Draft position is really lucky, especially with the rule changes. 

 

EW

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15 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

What makes it a 'waste' though? Is the idea of the draft not to get young, NHL players? So if we trade our 1st+ for someone like Landeskog or Reinhart etc, how exactly is that a 'waste'?

I don't mind the premise of trading the pick if it lands the team a young forward that would be part of the core but I want to target the right player. I am not a fan of trading for Landeskog or Reinhart for example. Reinhart is an excellent talent but I have my doubts whether he can be a #1C in the future. I wonder if the best position for him will be as a winger going forward. I really like Landeskog as well, I wouldn't say the Canucks don't have a need for a player like that but I think if the 1st is on the table, then a more dynamic talent needs to be targeted.
 

12 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

BPA.

 

If we draft say Liljegren, it simply makes one of our other D expendable down the line. You then move them to fill the other holes in your lineup. If Lil is ready in say 2 years and makes say Stetcher or Hutton etc expendable...they'd sure garner a handsome return.

100% agree with you here, take the best talent worry about the rest later.

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2 minutes ago, Toews said:

I don't mind the premise of trading the pick if it lands the team a young forward that would be part of the core but I want to target the right player. I am not a fan of trading for Landeskog or Reinhart for example. Reinhart is an excellent talent but I have my doubts whether he can be a #1C in the future. I wonder if the best position for him will be as a winger going forward. I really like Landeskog as well, I wouldn't say the Canucks don't have a need for a player like that but I think if the 1st is on the table, then a more dynamic talent needs to be targeted.
 

100% agree with you here, take the best talent worry about the rest later.

Lets not forget that this is not a draft with any franchise players at the top end. Not like the last two. 2018 and 2019 might be better.

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8 minutes ago, Toews said:

No that is your opinion. Tryamkin and Stecher have a combined 46 games in the NHL. Juolevi has yet to even play a game in the NHL. We have no idea how these players will progress in a few years. We can hope for the best and be optimistic about their growth but we don't have a crystal ball to tell us where these guys will be 3-4 years from now. At one point the Pittsburgh Penguins had the most enviable D prospect depth in the league with Maata, Pouliot, Morrow, Harrington and Despres. How many of them are still with Pittsburgh? Penguins fans then were penciling these guys into their future lineups as well and boasting about one day having the best D in the NHL.

 

If you ask Leafs fans as well they will boast about Andrew Nielsen (61st overall, 2015) a 6'3 blueliner with a good shot and excellent offensive instincts who also has 15 points in 21 games in his first season in the pros. They have Travis Dermott (35th overall, 2015) as well who is projected to be a top 4 defenseman one day. The idea that they are somehow devoid of talent at the position is false. They have stockpiled picks and used them on some interesting prospects on D, we will have to see whether some of those picks end up paying off for them.

 

Benning has done an admirable job acquiring talent but to say that we are now set at D just because we have some young talent at the position is shortsighted. It is the same with goaltending, I have a lot of faith in Demko, more than most of the prospects in the organization but until he can do what he did in college in the NHL I don't want to consider that position to be "set" for the long term. This applies to Markstrom as well, I wouldn't claim he is a starter until he can actually take upon a starter's workload and deliver results while doing so. I love the excitement of Canucks fans but there seems to be a lot of 'counting your chickens before they hatch' going on.

 

 

PIT is in an entirely different scenario. Most of those guys have gone on to play in the NHL or will be. That they were traded due to PIT's situation is really a separate discussion.

 

I never said 'set', you did ;)

 

I said, 'largely rebuilt'. Nobody's counting chickens but Stetcher and Tryamkin (as well as Hutton) have shown they can play at this level and yes Juolevi, Brisebois etc still need to do the same but project well IMO. Add some stabilizing/support guys like Gudbranson, Sbisa and it looks to have a good footing. Though I agree, nothing is set in stone until it is.

 

Demko (after a shorter adjustment period than I thought he'd need) is putting up good numbers down in Utica. Though granted, it's still a small sample size.

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Stupid article.

 

The Leafs are doing slightly better than the Canucks because:

 

#1  They got lucky, won the lottery and Auston Mathews

 

#2  The Franchise has more money than it knows what to do with and can afford to throw money at Coaches and GM's... so they have L.L. and Babs.

 

But their actual team is not very good, and they lack D.

 

If they end up midpack, make the playoffs, then Leafs fans will be doomed to another 10 years of mediocrity...  Mathews can't win a Cup on his own.

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  • 2 months later...

It's sort of funny reading all these comments from Cansucks fans months after the game. "boo hoo Toronto is cheating"..."boo hoo Toronto has more fans than us"..."boo hoo CBC ignores us".

 

It'll be easier to ignore the CanSucks for the next 10 years while you dwell at the bottom of the league. Don't be surprised to see Lord Stanley in Edmonton or Toronto during this time.

 

Hopefully you folks don't have another riot.

 

Canucks

2 riots

2 sisters

0 cups

 

Good day. :lol: 

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Our tear down started on 2017 TDL day.

As contracts became movable past 2 years they were moved for other lesser value mature parts . This was not retool , rebuild or teardown it was salvaging of the present day optimism.

Who cares what the leafs say do or think they will do whatever they do.

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1 hour ago, NotMasonRaymond said:

It's sort of funny reading all these comments from Cansucks fans months after the game. "boo hoo Toronto is cheating"..."boo hoo Toronto has more fans than us"..."boo hoo CBC ignores us".

 

It'll be easier to ignore the CanSucks for the next 10 years while you dwell at the bottom of the league. Don't be surprised to see Lord Stanley in Edmonton or Toronto during this time.

 

Hopefully you folks don't have another riot.

 

Canucks

2 riots

2 sisters

0 cups

 

Good day. :lol: 

Get back under your bridge.

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41 minutes ago, bobbyg43 said:

Our tear down started on 2017 TDL day.

As contracts became movable past 2 years they were moved for other lesser value mature parts . This was not retool , rebuild or teardown it was salvaging of the present day optimism.

Who cares what the leafs say do or think they will do whatever they do.

As linden said last night, it started 32 months ago.  There's only 4 players left on the roster from 2014.  

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9 minutes ago, stawns said:

As linden said last night, it started 32 months ago.  There's only 4 players left on the roster from 2014.  

Refool, not rebuild.

it wasn't until a few days ago, not months, that the core was disassembled, minus Kesler, who forced their hand.  Who cares that Garrison or Higgins is gone? 

The rebuild crowd still wants the top assets shipped out while they are tradable, that has barely happened. Linden and the "only 4 players left..." are misleading the non-discerning mind with such false flag, politician spin. 

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Just now, 189lb enforcers? said:

Refool, not rebuild.

it wasn't until a few days ago, not months, that the core was disassembled, minus Kesler, who forced their hand.  Who cares that Garrison or Higgins is gone? 

The rebuild crowd still wants the top assets shipped out while they are tradable, that has barely happened. Linden and the misleading "only 4 players left..." are misleading the non-discerning mind into false flag, politician spin. 

Nice try, the Canucks have torn it down more than any other team in the league.

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4 minutes ago, stawns said:

Nice try, the Canucks have torn it down more than any other team in the league.

Yes, they've really tried the refool thingy, but around the same core. 

As of today, I'm just happy that the trend of maintaining the Sedin-era looks to be over. Sure, they're not going to come out and say it, but you can see the white flag now. You can finally see a commitment to turning over the core. Retooling is over, now they are re-thingy the foundation. You might notice that this is popular opinion outside of this forum. 

 

No matter what Slim says, the actual rebuild, is only days old. 

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