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Article - Leafs' reno on pace, while Canucks lagging behind


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31 minutes ago, shayster007 said:

Since the 05/06 season the Leafs have made 1 playoff appearance. In the same amount of time the canucks have made the post season 7 times. 

 

I should surely hope the Leafs rebuild is ahead of ours, they have been earning it with pure suck for the last 10 years. 

Exactly this.
We haven't been bad for very long. We SHOULDN'T have our rebuild complete yet. We've only missed the playoffs twice in recent history. We were still going for the Cup just a few years ago.
And in that short period of time, look at the gems we were able to find. Our defense core and our goaltending is pretty much set for the foreseeable future! Name me one rebuilder who had the luxury of sucking longer who has been able to do that.
And what about how we developed these gems. Knock Desjardins all you want, but let's face it, Bo developed in this system the last couple years.
Look at what Tryamkin has become in his system. From a longshot novelty draft pick, to a guy who came to camp out of shape, to a guy Willie turned around with tough love and looks like an absolute steal now.
I don't think the media, nor many of our fans, gives our management group the credit they deserve sometimes. I disagree with plenty of moves they made, but I would with any management group at one point or another. The fact of the matter is they inherited a mess and only had a couple seasons to turn it around before the fans started turning on them.

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Do I have to turn in my Canucks fan ID if I say the article doesn't really bother me? All Willis seems to be saying is that we're a couple picks behind the "doing it right" Leafs rebuild, and they've had a few years head start (arguably a decade but who's counting). And but for our poor lottery luck, we'd be a lot closer already (if we'd potentially landed a Matthews or Laine last draft).

 

Sure he uses a lot of words to get there (look at me criticizing somebody for lack of brevity ;)), but the fact we're tantalizingly close to having a similar crop of exciting young players seems to be one of the main points underlying the article. We just need to stay the course. We already have the most of pieces in the pipeline on D and in net. The next couple drafts, with some luck, should yield the forwards necessary to complete the future roster.

 

 

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Wiles is usually quite factual...but off base on this one...first off the Leafs have been lagging behind for years since they last made the p-layoffs...just stocking up those high picks..Marner..Nylander..Matthews and more...Canucks have been playing  mediocre hockey and making the playoffs for the most part. Real bad comparison Ed.

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I think part of completing a rebuild includes a coach. If you compare the Leafs pre-Babcock to now, you could see what difference a coach can make. Sure, they sucked last season in the standings but if you watched their games, they were faster and better compared to the years past. And of course, they constructed their roster in such a way to finish dead last (intentional tanking) so finishing last was part of their plan. You can see that they are better this season.

 

Look at Chicago for an example. I think we would have beaten an inexperienced Chicago in 2009 if not for their coach. AV himself was (and still is) a great coach but Q was similarly good as AV in player deployment and better than AV in making adjustments in the middle of the series/games.

 

I don't think we are behind the Leafs. In fact, we are way ahead of them in goaltending and defence whilst they are ahead of us up front. But we do need to hire a coach that can grow with the young players so that when we do finally build a team that can compete, we can do what Chicago does and surprise everyone by going deep in the playoffs rather than be a team that is one and out. 

 

I don't think WD is a coach that you want for the future. So in that sense, yes, we are behind the Leafs.

 

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1 minute ago, khay said:

I think part of completing a rebuild includes a coach. If you compare the Leafs pre-Babcock to now, you could see what difference a coach can make. Sure, they sucked last season in the standings but if you watched their games, they were faster and better compared to the years past. And of course, they constructed their roster in such a way to finish dead last (intentional tanking) so finishing last was part of their plan. You can see that they are better this season.

 

Look at Chicago for an example. I think we would have beaten an inexperienced Chicago in 2009 if not for their coach. AV himself was (and still is) a great coach but Q was similarly good as AV in player deployment and better than AV in making adjustments in the middle of the series/games.

 

I don't think we are behind the Leafs. In fact, we are way ahead of them in goaltending and defence whilst they are ahead of us up front. But we do need to hire a coach that can grow with the young players so that when we do finally build a team that can compete, we can do what Chicago does and surprise everyone by going deep in the playoffs rather than be a team that is one and out. 

 

I don't think WD is a coach that you want for the future. So in that sense, yes, we are behind the Leafs.

 

 so their proud to be ahead of us in a rebuild for a team that missed the playoffs 9 out of 10 years? 

 

how the hell are they not ahead of us?  We have 6 division titles, 2 Presidents trophies and a Clarence Campbell cup  during that span.

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1 hour ago, EmilyM said:

Exactly this.
We haven't been bad for very long. We SHOULDN'T have our rebuild complete yet. We've only missed the playoffs twice in recent history. We were still going for the Cup just a few years ago.
And in that short period of time, look at the gems we were able to find. Our defense core and our goaltending is pretty much set for the foreseeable future! Name me one rebuilder who had the luxury of sucking longer who has been able to do that.
And what about how we developed these gems. Knock Desjardins all you want, but let's face it, Bo developed in this system the last couple years.
Look at what Tryamkin has become in his system. From a longshot novelty draft pick, to a guy who came to camp out of shape, to a guy Willie turned around with tough love and looks like an absolute steal now.
I don't think the media, nor many of our fans, gives our management group the credit they deserve sometimes. I disagree with plenty of moves they made, but I would with any management group at one point or another. The fact of the matter is they inherited a mess and only had a couple seasons to turn it around before the fans started turning on them.

Excellent report, there are no arguments coming your way with regards to your post. TML and Oilers have been rebuilding for a decade at least, Florida or TB deserve more credit than the aforementioned.

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Just now, 6string said:

Excellent report, there are no arguments coming your way with regards to your post. TML and Oilers have been rebuilding for a decade at least, Florida or TB deserve more credit than the aforementioned.

Incorrect with respect to the Leafs

 

Look-up the Muskoka Five for further clarification.

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Just now, 6string said:

There is nothing to look up other than one playoff in a decade.

meh, you should look it up - they *TRIED* rebuilding earlier but a number of their vets nixed the idea.  No way have they been in rebuilding mode for the last decade.

 

Agree to disagree.

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7 hours ago, DeNiro said:

They're in 12th place but their rebuild is "on pace"? Lol, let me know when they accomplish anything other than having the most hyped players.

 

Before media and fans start praising the Leafs lets wait and see if they can actually build a team like the Hawks rather than a team like the stage 1 rebuild Oilers.

 

It also completely ignores the fact the Leafs have sucked, and been drafting, more than a decade now. One could easily argue they're at the the "it's been a long time coming" point as opposed to "on pace". The was what, their second or third house cleaning?

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1 hour ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

meh, you should look it up - they *TRIED* rebuilding earlier but a number of their vets nixed the idea.  No way have they been in rebuilding mode for the last decade.

 

Agree to disagree.

 

How do player nix a rebuild? Two Leafs declined to waive their NTC. So Sundin walked with no return. The other changed his mind and completely waived his ntc the following year. Neither situation stops a team from rebuilding. They've had over a decade of drafting from outside the playoff picture with little to show for it. The truth is they should be far further along on their rebuild than they are. As should Edmonton.

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They still have a ton of work to do on the back end.

 

Nylander, Marner, and Matthews are excellent young forwards no doubt. But beyond Reilly I cant say I would like anyone from their back end.

 

I know there is the whole Virtanen and Nylander debate. But Virtanen is going to take some time to realize hos potential. Look at Scheifele, some guys take some time.

 

In my opinion I think I would rather have Horvat over either Marner or Nylander in a stanley cup series. 

 

We are likely going to walk away from this draft with a top 5 pick again. Which will be a forward. Boeser, Brisebois, and Joelevi will be pro league players next year if not NHL. That leaves us with Dmen to trade for forwards which I feel is an advantgeous position. 

 

I really feel that we have 2 seasons of "retooling" still ahead. At this point the Sedins will be 2nd line PP and 15 minute a night players but be on their next contract likely at a great cap price to try for a cup. By then Bo, Baer, Boeser, Virtanen, next 2 draft picks and acquired players will be in the drivers seat and we will be a threat.

 

We absolutely have to acquire picks though at the deadline this year for guys like Burrows and Miller if they continue to show they are still valuable between now and February.

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3 hours ago, LaBamba said:

 

The saddest part of that equation is that we both have the same amount of cups during that time. 

 

How many president cups and division titles does TO have?

 

Honestly, with the length of time TO has sucked they should be a contender by now. Instead they're a team on the verge of being a playoff team in another year or two. What an accomplishment. During the time they sucked that time we transitioned from WCE to Sedinery, won division titles, 2 presidents cups, and made game 7 of the SCF and are rebuilding. But the Leafs are on pace?

 

Holding up TO as the standard we can suck for another ten years and we'll be "on pace"? lmao

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