Article - Leafs' reno on pace, while Canucks lagging behind

[D-Money]

20 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

 

I like Willes, but sometimes a writer spins his facts to fit a narrative. TO is going in the right direction, finally after 4/5 GM's multiple coaches, a revolving door in goal and a second complete tear down without any real 'rebuilding' in over 10 years.  They didn't just start two years ago!!!!  

 

 

Willes ommitted this and makes it appear if both Vancover and TO started rebuilding at the same moment. That is simply not true. Vancover media needs to stop spinning the TO circus act. 

 

Yeah, let's all laugh at their multiple coaches and rebuilding door in goal!

 

 

 

...Oh 

[Toews]

2 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

 

The Leafs have not been competitive since they had Gilmour and Sundin on their roster. 

 

They have been been rebuilding since then.  Anyone that thinks the failed Kessel/Phanuef Burke short cut qualifies as a rebuild is being foolish. To be a rebuild, the roster needs to see some success or improvement over a least a few years. The laughs only managed to get to the playoffs once since Gilmour left, then lost in the first round. That is not success. 

 

There is little comparison to what JB is doing as compared to what Burke did. JB is hanging onto his 1st's and traded away a top player and garnered an additional first, plus some decent roster players. 

 

We are on a different path, and are building from the net out. So far the leafs have 3 offensive players, 2 of which I like, the other will be like his dad, a good skill guy that doesn't go into the dirty areas. They have one good young Defender and so far Andersson looks decent in goal. It only took them 4 or five goalies to get a decent one. 

 

We have a much better future d Corp and our goalie situation is another plus. I would only trade Horvat for one leaf, Mathews, but other than Horvat, Marner is way better than any other player we currently have coming up.

 

 

all that and they are still

in 13th place, like us in 2016. Unlike TO, the nucks have hardly been this low in the standings in the last 10 years. TO has rarely been any higher. 

 

EW

 

Gilmour was traded in 97. I remember the Leafs making a few more runs after that, a conference finals appearance in 2001 (or 2002?) being their best finish.

[GB5]

The only thing these two teams have in common is that they both missed the playoffs last year. Its pretty hard to praise the Leafs when they have only seen the playoffs once in the last decade.

 

The leafs are possibly emerging from a painfully Oiler-esc rebuild, and the Canucks are from from a contender but with a couple more years of good drafting the Canucks should start to emerge from their current stagnation.

[Riviera82]

1 hour ago, LaBamba said:

 

Only a Vancouver fan would brag about pres cups. 

 

That's not quite as bad as the guy who mentioned our Campbell Cup championship. Always love it when people talk about how we "made it" to game 7 too.

[189lb enforcers?]

The main difference between the Leafs and the Canucks is Vision.

The Leafs blew it up and never looked back. They rebuilt and we did not. We are doing the Calgary long-goodbye instead.

 

Now our fears are realized, we'd all rather switch rosters and put the Orca on the Leaf's future... swapping Kadri for Horvat, of course. Watching them and the Coilers steamroll the Canucks will be entertaining to read about on here.

 

[aGENT]

So the team that started rebuilding before us and got luckier in the draft is 'ahead' of us in their rebuild.... Good job...? 

 

And really, how far ahead they are is HIGHLY debatable. They've got a bunch of 'sexy' young forwards and not much else (their lucky-lotto Mathews at the top of that pile).

 

I wouldn't trade our D and goalie prospects for theirs. Forwards are coming. Yet another ridiculous Toronto-centric/Toronto is amazing, click bait, the Canucks need a "real" rebuild" nonsense article 

[TimberWolf]

If the Leafs were doing our retool and we were doing the Leafs tear down I wonder what this thread would look like. 

[Phat Fingers]

1 hour ago, D-Money said:

 

Yeah, let's all laugh at their multiple coaches and rebuilding door in goal!

 

 

 

...Oh 

 

58 minutes ago, Toews said:

Gilmour was traded in 97. I remember the Leafs making a few more runs after that, a conference finals appearance in 2001 (or 2002?) being their best finish.

 

 

Laugh away at the leafs... If you think going from Luongo to Miller with Lack as a half season stand in remotely compares to TO's massive failures in goal since Burke took over... 

 

TO may have gone to the post season a few times since 97, but only a few. It's been so long I couldn't remember. If I take your timeline, they have basically sucked since 2001 (2002?).   Either way they have been rebuilding since and have nothing to show for it until now. 

[189lb enforcers?]

5 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

 

 

 

Laugh away at the leafs... If you think going from Luongo to Miller with Lack as a half season stand in remotely compares to TO's massive failures in goal since Burke took over... 

 

TO may have gone to the post season a few times since 97, but only a few. It's been so long I couldn't remember. If I take your timeline, they have basically sucked since 2001 (2002?).   Either way they have been rebuilding since and have nothing to show for it until now. 

Calgary and TO basically rode their stars until the wheels fell off the thing. Now we are.

We are emulating their past as our present.

We have our Monahan and a prospect goalie. We hope two prospects turn out in Olli and Brock, plus this years tank showing.

I really don't care to be "rebuilding" for a decade, as you allude to here, but we appear to be trending there. I'd rather we had blown in up in 2013. Today works too.

Rip off the Band-Aid!

[LaBamba]

You guys are really having a hard time putting your bias opinions aside and looking at the big picture. If you are a supporter of Jim Benning's Succession plan than you need to stop and really look at what you are making fun of in Toronto. They tried to avoid a rebuild for nearly 5 decades. One GM after another, pre-cap, post cap, it doesn't matter. Their goal was always to make the playoffs. When making the playoffs at all costs becomes your primary goal, you lose sight of the Stanley cup. That basically sums up the pre-shannahan leafs and the Canucks entire history. 

 

After 5 decades, the Leafs organization finally said enough is enough. Let's try something different. If you go back through the Burke interviews you will see a lot of questions from the media hinting towards a rebuild with emphatic resistance from Burke. Their old press conferences look exactly like ours do today.

 

Everyone except a isolated group of people in here are dumbfounded by our relentless pursuit of the playoffs. Some of us want us to pursue the Stanley Cup and to do that we need to shift out attention to the period in time where we have the next legitimate shot at contending for one and that's 5 years down the line. Until we start focusing on the Stanley cup window of the future at the expense of making the playoffs now, we are doing the very same thing you all smugly laugh at the leafs for.  

 

We have good management, we have a GM who can draft, why are we wasting our time and assets on something that doesn't matter? The only thing that matters is the cup. If I hear one more person justify stupid crap like LE and Forsling to build a winning culture I'm going to puke. There are like 3 teams in all of sports that seem to win and rebuild at the same time and their times are about to end as well. You also gotta win before you can start shooting for a dynasty. We're a freakin Dienasty and we always will be with these stupid Rush rebuilds. 

[Rocksterh8]

2 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

You guys are really having a hard time putting your bias opinions aside and looking at the big picture. If you are a supporter of Jim Benning's Succession plan than you need to stop and really look at what you are making fun of in Toronto. They tried to avoid a rebuild for nearly 5 decades. One GM after another, pre-cap, post cap, it doesn't matter. Their goal was always to make the playoffs. When making the playoffs at all costs becomes your primary goal, you lose sight of the Stanley cup. That basically sums up the pre-shannahan leafs and the Canucks entire history. 

 

After 5 decades, the Leafs organization finally said enough is enough. Let's try something different. If you go back through the Burke interviews you will see a lot of questions from the media hinting towards a rebuild with emphatic resistance from Burke. Their old press conferences look exactly like ours do today.

 

Everyone except a isolated group of people in here are dumbfounded by our relentless pursuit of the playoffs. Some of us want us to pursue the Stanley Cup and to do that we need to shift out attention to the period in time where we have the next legitimate shot at contending for one and that's 5 years down the line. Until we start focusing on the Stanley cup window of the future at the expense of making the playoffs now, we are doing the very same thing you all smugly laugh at the leafs for.  

 

We have good management, we have a GM who can draft, why are we wasting our time and assets on something that doesn't matter? The only thing that matters is the cup. If I hear one more person justify stupid crap like LE and Forsling to build a winning culture I'm going to puke. There are like 3 teams in all of sports that seem to win and rebuild at the same time and their times are about to end as well. You also gotta win before you can start shooting for a dynasty. We're a freakin Dienasty and we always will be with these stupid Rush rebuilds. 

 

Well said, I agree totally.

[Rush17]

For all those who say we need a full rebuild and rip it all down. Look at what Detroit one of the most successful franchises has accomplished by passing the torch from captain to captain and generation to generation. They have some little woes now as they adjust but look how successful they have been to be able to reach the post season and compete for so many years.  By doing the exact style system we are using.  Retooling on the fly well trying to compete.  You lose all of your culture and traditions if you strip it down.  The lessons passed down from Trevor, to Nazzy, To the Sedins would be lost.  You could even argue the lessons give to nazzy from Mark Messier but I know he isnt a fan fav.

[LaBamba]

3 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

For all those who say we need a full rebuild and rip it all down. Look at what Detroit one of the most successful franchises has accomplished by passing the torch from captain to captain and generation to generation. They have some little woes now as they adjust but look how successful they have been to be able to reach the post season and compete for so many years.  By doing the exact style system we are using.  Retooling on the fly well trying to compete.  You lose all of your culture and traditions if you strip it down.  The lessons passed down from Trevor, to Nazzy, To the Sedins would be lost.  You could even argue the lessons give to nazzy from Mark Messier but I know he isnt a fan fav.

 

You gotta win before you start shooting for a dynasty. 

[189lb enforcers?]

51 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

For all those who say we need a full rebuild and rip it all down. 

You lose all of your culture and traditions if you strip it down.  The lessons passed down from Trevor, to Nazzy, To the Sedins would be lost.  You could even argue the lessons give to nazzy from Mark Messier but I know he isnt a fan fav.

Tell that to Towes or Benn or...

I don't want Nazzy or Sediny passing on "lessons", I'd rather it be Horvat or Guddy, but that's just me.

[Butters Stoch]

1 hour ago, TimberWolf said:

If the Leafs were doing our retool and we were doing the Leafs tear down I wonder what this thread would look like. 

We'd still be ripping on the Leafs like everyone did at the time they traded for Kessel and praising our GM for getting us Matthews.

[Rush17]

53 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

 

You gotta win before you start shooting for a dynasty. 

Yeah my point though is they want to pass on our culture like DET has passed on theirs over the years.  They have a deep heritage and are proud of maintaining it.  Even thru the lawls.  This is a very low point for DET but they have a lot of the pieces they need to reach the next level of competition.

[LaBamba]

2 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

Yeah my point though is they want to pass on our culture like DET has passed on theirs over the years.  They have a deep heritage and are proud of maintaining it.  Even thru the lawls.  This is a very low point for DET but they have a lot of the pieces they need to reach the next level of competition.

 

We have never won a Stanley cup ever in the history of our franchise. What exactly are we passing on? How to blow it?  What culture? Are you serious? 

 

 Before Detroit had Steve Y they were pathetic. They slowly built their team into a cup contender and maintained a dynasty afterwards in a completely different era that can't even be compared with today. They were decades ahead in scouting and player development. The entire league follows the Detroit model now.

 

Id also like to point out that nothing we are doing right now resembles what Detroit does. We have had 1 full cycle development player out of Utica.  Draft, Full Jr term, Utica, 4th line. How is that Detroiting? 

 

Detroit wouldn't have rushed JV and McCann into the lineup, they might have even sent Horvat pack to Jr. The reason why we aren't Detroit is because we don't put player development ahead of winning like Detroit does. They use an apprentice program. We use a fill immediate need program. We needed "size" in the Lineup at the expense of JV's developmental needs. 

[189lb enforcers?]

25 minutes ago, Rush17 said:

Yeah my point though is they want to pass on our culture like DET has passed on theirs over the years.  They have a deep heritage and are proud of maintaining it.  Even thru the lawls.  This is a very low point for DET but they have a lot of the pieces they need to reach the next level of competition.

Detroit is a classy org, no doubt. Are you comparing ours in some way in an attempt to make your point?

Our culture contains biting, hair pulling, face making, taking punches to the face... it goes on.

I'd say our culture has changed, irrespective of the vets.

The team is building culture, but did not inherit one to bestow on any poor kid.

 

[cbdoubleu]

Obviously their forwards prospects have a way higher ceiling than ours, but the only thing their rebuild has going for it that we don't is that they've already cleaned house of their aging core players, and we still rely heavily on the Sedins.

 

Conceivably the Maple Leafs could have that core group for the next 5 years, improving every year. For us, if the Sedins retire next season, there will be a huge hole in our lineup. Horvat could maybe fill that top line centre void, but then we would need Horvat's replacement to NHL ready as well. For the Leafs there is only up, whereas we could still bottom out without the Sedins.

 

We're one lottery win away from changing that, but until then I'd say the Leafs are at least 1 draft ahead of us, 2 if we won't land a franchise player.

[Alflives]

Just now, cbdoubleu said:

Obviously their forwards prospects have a way higher ceiling than ours, but the only thing their rebuild has going for it that we don't is that they've already cleaned house of their aging core players, and we still rely heavily on the Sedins.

 

Conceivably the Maple Leafs could have that core group for the next 5 years, improving every year. For us, if the Sedins retire next season, there will be a huge hole in our lineup. Horvat could maybe fill that top line centre void, but then we would need Horvat's replacement to NHL ready as well. For the Leafs there is only up, whereas we could still bottom out without the Sedins.

 

We're one lottery win away from changing that, but until then I'd say the Leafs are at least 1 draft ahead of us, 2 if we won't land a franchise player.

Who do the Leafs have for D prospects?  They have Reilly, and that's it.  The rest are crapolla.  Plus, their goaltending is poor; it's crapolla too.  The Leafs are where the Coilers were when they were getting all those forwards, but not getting the D, or goaltending.  Yes, skilled forwards are fun to watch, but it's D that wins.  

 

LEAFS ARE CRAPOLLA.