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Article - Leafs' reno on pace, while Canucks lagging behind


CanadianRugby

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1 minute ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Oh, well it's really that simple, isn't it? We just need to find another superstar player, who all the other teams think is ineligible for the draft, and draft him. Easy as pie.

 

 Nice, leave a condescending reply to one sentence out of a couple paragraphs.

 

I used that as an example that good teams need players who can play offense as well as players who can play defense. I am not saying the canucks need to get lucky again. What I am saying that it is time for management to start looking for those types of players in the draft. We have Sutter, we have Hansen and Horvat.

We need more skill in our lineup and we should start looking at ways to acquire or draft someone who plays a more exciting offensive skill game.

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3 minutes ago, VC420 said:

 

 Nice, leave a condescending reply to one sentence out of a couple paragraphs.

 

I used that as an example that good teams need players who can play offense as well as players who can play defense. I am not saying the canucks need to get lucky again. What I am saying that it is time for management to start looking for those types of players in the draft. We have Sutter, we have Hansen and Horvat.

We need more skill in our lineup and we should start looking at ways to acquire or draft someone who plays a more exciting offensive skill game.

Don't hate me because I'm concise. 

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8 minutes ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Don't hate me because I'm concise. 

 

I dont hate you, we all have our opinions.

However I dont respect it  either when someone cherrypicks something from your post to make you look ignorant or uninformed. 

If you disagree with my thoughts then post some facts or your own detailed opinion regarding the subject. 

 

We are all canucks fans, there is no reason to hate on or pick on someone elses post. If you want to debate my detail of the canucks prosepect mangement and drafting then I am more than happy to debate that with you.

 

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6 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said:

Take Matthews awY Bdctheir Reno is miles behind ours.

our d corps depth dwarfs theirs and they have no future franchise goaltender.

honestly Horvat vs Matthews in a 7 game series would be a battle, not a slam dunk win by the leafs.

 

Totally agree, Horvat is underrated around the league and our Dcore is looking as good as ever. 

However it only takes one goalie to change the outlook of that position and the team in general, while on the other hand it takes longer to build and draft a talented forward core than it takes to draft or acquire a singe goalie. Thats why the old mantra "build from the net out" still rings true these days. One goalie can make  more difference than one forward.

The leafs are one goalie away from being significantly better while we are two or three forwards away from making similar gains.

 

I like where we are at right now but a Mitch Marner type player could be really usefull for us right now. Hopefully Boeser signs and plays next year. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. But I believe the leafs need fewer players than we need to be a contender. Though its only natural that Toronto's rebuild would be farther along than ours since we arent actually rebuilding yet.

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I don't get the reason for this article. Is Willes from the Toronto area? Are the Leafs his favourite team?

 

The Leafs only appear to be further along in their rebuild because they bought, I mean...uh hum, won the #1 pick at last year's draft.

 

Canucks are further along rebuilding their D and goaltending than the Leafs are. So there.

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5 minutes ago, VC420 said:

 

Totally agree, Horvat is underrated around the league and our Dcore is looking as good as ever. 

However it only takes one goalie to change the outlook of that position and the team in general, while on the other hand it takes longer to build and draft a talented forward core than it takes to draft or acquire a singe goalie. Thats why the old mantra "build from the net out" still rings true these days. One goalie can make  more difference than one forward.

The leafs are one goalie away from being significantly better while we are two or three forwards away from making similar gains.

 

I like where we are at right now but a Mitch Marner type player could be really usefull for us right now. Hopefully Boeser signs and plays next year. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. But I believe the leafs need fewer players than we need to be a contender. Though its only natural that Toronto's rebuild would be farther along than ours since we arent actually rebuilding yet.

That's a really good analysis

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35 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

Smartest D in the draft, sublime skater, ability to move the puck and find seams, ability to move play forward.

 

While all of that certainly helps produce offense, he is not an 'offensive D'. I'll be surprised if he's much more than at 30-40 point D in his prime. 

He suits todays game perfectly doesn't he. He is also bigger then a lot of people think and just needs to fill out.

You never have enough quality D men and  it is what you win cups with.

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On 12/4/2016 at 6:23 PM, CanadianRugby said:

http://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/ed-willes-leafs-reno-on-pace-while-canucks-lagging-behind#comments

 

For an early December game between a pair of 12th-placed teams, the Saturday night special between the visiting Toronto Maple Leafs and the Vancouver Canucks served up any number of ready-made storylines.

There was revenge factor, which led to a bruising heavyweight fight between the Canucks’ Erik Gudbrandson and the Leafs’ Matt Martin, the kind of scrap that used to be an integral part of the game but is no more, even if it can bring 18,000 fans to their feet.

 

There was a sublime goaltending performance by the Canucks’ Ryan Miller, who turned aside 38 of 40 shots as the Canucks squeaked out a 3-2 shootout win.

There was even the predictable drama created by the legion of Leafs’ fans in attendance, full-throated and fully invested, creating a charged atmosphere in a building which is usually flatter than pee on a plate.

 

So you can take your choice of those topics as you contemplate the events in and around a noteworthy night at The Rog. But if you were looking for something not quite as obvious; something subtler but more meaningful, we call your attention to the two lineups and what that says about the direction of the Leafs, the Canucks, and the NHL for that matter.

It’s like this. Between the two teams, there were 10 players aged 22 or under and three more aged 23. These included the dazzling Auston Matthews, the Leafs’ 19-year-old superstar in the making who scored the tying goal, 19-year-old Mitch Marner, who dominated the game for stretches, and the Canucks’ 21-year-old Bo Horvat, who scored the shootout winner while logging 20:40 of ice time.

 

Gudbrandson, by way of comparison, is just 24, but in this brave new world, he sometimes feels like Grampa Simpson.

“The game has changed and it’s happened really quickly,” Gudbrandson said. “I’ve seen huge changes since I came into the league and it’s only been six years.”

Horvat, who’s in his third year, was asked if he’s now a grizzled veteran.

 

“It feels like it,” he said, before adding, “Every team has some young skilled guys who are going to be around the league for a long time. This is just the beginning. They’re going to be the stars. They already seem to be the stars now.”

But where does that leave the Canucks? That’s just one of the questions that’s going to be answered this season as they continue their makeover, but the images from Saturday night were telling.

 

There were long stretches in the nationally televised tilt in which the Canucks were simply overmatched. True, they had things under control for the first half of the game, opening a 2-0 lead with some tidy work. But after the Leafs’ James van Riemsdyk scored on a power play midway through the second frame, the ice was tilted to an illogical degree.

Over the third period and overtime the Canucks were outshot 18-5. Matthews had five shots, including the tying goal. Marner had four. JVR had six. And there were another 20 shots that missed the net.

 

“We had lots of open nets,” said Leafs head coach Mike Babcock. “We just didn’t shoot it in.”

 

Oh.

 

“We have a lot of good young players who are starting to come,” Babcock continued. “We have eight rookies. That’s a lot of rookies. We’re trying to hold them accountable, catching them doing it right and make sure they know they right way to do it.”

The Leafs, moreover, are just a couple of years down this path, but already look to be far ahead of the Canucks. OK, this year’s draft lottery helped their rebuild immeasurably, and you’re invited to contemplate the role blind luck plays in these endeavours. The Leafs’ went into the lotto with a 20 per cent chance of drawing the first pick. The Canucks were 11.5 for first overall and 11.4 for second.

 

Put Matthews or Patrik Laine in their lineup today and it changes everything for this franchise. But it’s the Leafs with the Golden Child while the Canucks try to hammer away at their renovation; hoping they can make incremental gains throughout the lineup, hoping they can get get lucky with a couple of big things.

It’s possible, one supposes, and there are some encouraging signs this year. Troy Stecher has been a revelation. Nikita Tryamkin has solidified his place in the lineup. Those two players change the entire look of the blueline, which isn’t a bad place to start.

 

But it’s not enough, not based on what we saw on Saturday night, not based on what’s going on in so many cities around the NHL. After a half century, it finally looks like the Leafs’ day is coming.

 

In Vancouver, we wait.


How is 10 years of rebuilding "on pace"

They were rebuilding when they traded Sundin. They were rebuilding when they traded for Kessel, and now they are rebuilding again.

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Stupid TOML. Hate those guys. 

 

"lets suck for 10 years, then suck harder to get good picks, then criticize everyone else for not sucking to the magnitude we suck at. Suck"

 

I LOVE the Dcore JB has seemingly pulled out of his arse. Set in net for the foreseeable future. Now to revamp the Forward group with some elite skill. He can burn some Defensive Capital to pick up some Forward talent, draft for skill, wait on Boeser etc etc. 

 

Honestly, how far off is the Forward group? Bring Boeser up, add 1 or 2 more skilled forwards and the team is essentially re built.

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Article is pretty much bang on. Some homers will strongly disagree but that's only becasue they have a hard time dealing with facts. 

 

I said right after the gave vs Leafs that

 

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On 12/3/2016 at 6:57 PM, WHL rocks said:

We need younger, faster, more skilled forwards, bigly....

 

This article says the same thing. Our D is coming along nicely, Our goalies are set with Markstrom and Demko coming up in couple of years. But at forward this team needs at least 3 or 4 more young, fast, skilled, tough forwards. Every Cup team has multiple very high end forwards. We need more Horvats and Boesers. 

 

A couple of them have to be drafted, and we could get 1 via trade and another via UFA when we are ready to contend 5 or 6 years down the road. 

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15 hours ago, LaBamba said:

 

If that's an accomplishment to you, sure, I guess. For me, winning the Pres trophy 2 years in a row and not winning the last game of either year is shameful and embarrassing. 

 

If you take a look you'll see that the presidents winning team often doesn't win the cup. Division titles, and Presidents Cups are still accomplishments for a season though.

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On 12/5/2016 at 10:33 AM, LaBamba said:

 

You gotta win before you start shooting for a dynasty. 

 

Good point. Detroit was only able to avoid rebuilds because of savy drafting during their winning years. I see similar trends in Boston. Which is while you are a winning team you can aim for the project prospects, the guys who need work and college players who wont join the system for three or four years. When you have Yzermans and co. you can take your time to develop guys like Zetterberg and Datsyuk into NHL stars. Bad teams like Edmonton always take the BPA or guys who can play now in hopes to find instant success and ultimately create unbalanced underdeveloped teams. Development is as important as drafting and the key is to find a balance between the two, finding a balance between the BPA's and projects in order to rebuild properly. 

 

I think that Benning coming from Boston understands this. He isnt all about the BPA or who can play now, drafting Joulevi  and Boeser were  strong signs of that.

JB has the patience to draft a winning team. My only concerns are that he is too focused on 2way players, we need some more raw talent to compliment guys like Horvat and  Virtanen. Also I fear management may have other opinions on whats best, hopefully I am wrong though.

 

Virtanen, Boeser, Joulevi were all good picks for us 4-5 years from now and hopefully we can continue to methodically draft our future team without hitting the panic button. David Pastrnak was a 25th overall pick and is on pace for nearly 60 goals, if you watch him play there is no luck involved either.

 Draft smart and take the players you are going to need down the road I say. Still a top 10 pick would be nice.

 

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6 hours ago, VC420 said:

 

Good point. Detroit was only able to avoid rebuilds because of savy drafting during their winning years. I see similar trends in Boston. Which is while you are a winning team you can aim for the project prospects, the guys who need work and college players who wont join the system for three or four years. When you have Yzermans and co. you can take your time to develop guys like Zetterberg and Datsyuk into NHL stars. Bad teams like Edmonton always take the BPA or guys who can play now in hopes to find instant success and ultimately create unbalanced underdeveloped teams. Development is as important as drafting and the key is to find a balance between the two, finding a balance between the BPA's and projects in order to rebuild properly. 

 

I think that Benning coming from Boston understands this. He isnt all about the BPA or who can play now, drafting Joulevi  and Boeser were  strong signs of that.

JB has the patience to draft a winning team. My only concerns are that he is too focused on 2way players, we need some more raw talent to compliment guys like Horvat and  Virtanen. Also I fear management may have other opinions on whats best, hopefully I am wrong though.

 

Virtanen, Boeser, Joulevi were all good picks for us 4-5 years from now and hopefully we can continue to methodically draft our future team without hitting the panic button. David Pastrnak was a 25th overall pick and is on pace for nearly 60 goals, if you watch him play there is no luck involved either.

 Draft smart and take the players you are going to need down the road I say. Still a top 10 pick would be nice.

 

 

I wouldn't take back a single Benning pick and you make a good point about Juolevi. However, they dropped the ball with Virtanen. I love the pick, hate how he was handled. I hope he can recover but the odds are stacked against him. It's really hard for a player to reverse a downtrend. 

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Its ridiculous. ..lets say next year Juolevi is ready...Boeser is ready and we win the lottery.  Does that mean in the eyes of the media we are a solid rebuilding team all of the sudden simply because we get lucky in the lottery. ...which is what the Leafs did.

 

Sorry Leafs but for 10 years your team was awful while we were winning President trophies and SC appearances. But even now after all there so called rebuilding they are not that further ahead of us. Our defence is way better and is completely rebuilt.

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16 hours ago, VC420 said:

Falling two spots in the draft doesnt help your rebuild. 

All we asked for was to move up one spot so we could take Laine (who I thought was the best in the draft).

Instead Winnipeg moves up 4 four spots and we drop down two spots.

 

True, yet we hear that its all a crap shoot, on here.

Aside from luck, you can increase your odds by having the highest pick possible. How can anyone downplay that?

Finishing in the bottom 5, lottery pick or not, should net you an impact player. Maybe not a franchise player, but an impact player.

Falling two spots is a big deal, especially between 1 and 5 OA, if I can pick a number out of air.

Keep in mind, I'm a biased tanker. If it were up to me, we'd be selling all winter so JB can't screw up another TDL. The man can draft, but can't seem to acquire picks.

 

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2 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

True, yet we hear that its all a crap shoot, on here.

Aside from luck, you can increase your odds by having the highest pick possible. How can anyone downplay that?

Finishing in the bottom 5, lottery pick or not, should net you an impact player. Maybe not a franchise player, but an impact player.

Falling two spots is a big deal, especially between 1 and 5 OA, if I can pick a number out of air.

Keep in mind, I'm a biased tanker. If it were up to me, we'd be selling all winter so JB can't screw up another TDL. The man can draft, but can't seem to acquire picks.

 

Sure many of us are with you, but JB just came out and said he "will NOT" ask any player with a no trade to waive.  It's this following two paths that's the problem.  The team is so crappy though, that regardless we will continue to draft top five for several years to come.

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7 hours ago, shattenkirk8 said:

This is perhaps Canucks first year, where they actually seem to have a "rebuild" going... What is this for leafs? 10th? 
It would be right on pace if it happened 8 years ago... 

Even if the task of the title in the article is false, anyone attempting to deny that Shanny and Lou didn't go full tank are delusional.

Don't get hung up on some bait and look at the difference in vision and execution. One team traded their captain, the other feels it wouldn't be fair.

 

 

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