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Jason Botchford: Horvat takes big strides to make Canucks forget about Schneider


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I love how he is basically saying that his improvements and achievements are all stemmed from the inside. 

The training and techniques are all just external tools to help you become better.

But the internal desire and attitude is what makes the most difference on how much each players improve.

Someone should show this article to Jake. 

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Horvat is great  Whether he becomes our #1 center or remains a solid #2, he's going to be a big part of our team for a long time.

 

I personally believe a great goalie wins you games on his own.  Time will tell if it was a decent trade for us, but there is no doubt what we lost in Schneider, and while we have great potential in both Markstrom (who of course came back in the Lu trade) and Demko, it remains to be seen if either will rise to the same elite level.

 

For me at least, I know I was so upset about it because of the way we ended up losing TWO elite goalies - both for a lesser return than they were worth, we ended up on the hook for Luongo's contract which wasn't even that bad if we had kept it, AND we couldn't even keep one of the two because Gillis had messed up the situation royally.  It was the entire situation that upset me the most.  Trading for hit-or-miss players was only the icing on the s**t cake.

..but in the end, we might not come out of it so bad....

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Since 2006 our 'tending has been stellar. Probably the only lame(short) stint was baldy-Auldy.(Just remembered, he was part of the Lu-pkg)

 

Then we can re-shuffle the deck for Bo, Marky & Demko.. sounds great!

 

Appreciate:

Nonis(drafting Schneids, & acquiring Lu)

Keenan(for his stupidity, in pi$$ing off/dealing us Lu)

Gillis(didn't bend to media; got us 2 great young pieces)

Benning(grabbed Miller; drafted Demko)

 

Even Eddie Lack was good entertainment.

We've been blessed & lucky in this dept. Now we're set for the next generation, possibly moreso than any other franchise.

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I would trade Jason Botchford for a plunger, it would be an even deal in terms of useage and benefits.

 

Bo is a beast, his off season training is all you need to know about him, Jason's off season runs between January thru December as many of you already know.

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3 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

 

I love watching Horvat develop, but that trade was not a good deal at the time for Gillis.

The salary cap says hi. The canucks were 8 million dollars over the cap at the draft that year. We could buy out ballard but booth was injured and not eligible, luongo had handcuffed the team as to where he would go putting his value at next to nothing.

 

We had to move out a big contract and not take any back. Gillis has the distinction of trading a goalie for the highest pick ever, in a top heavy draft for that matter. This while being at an obvious disadvantage in a time sensitive situation. Add the fact that Gillis had the balls to pass on nikushkin  (who was ranked at #3 by many scouts) to go for a sure fire stud in Bo.

 

 Definitely made the best of a bad situation.

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4 hours ago, oldnews said:

not really.

don't know anyone that considered him a 'total gamble'.  or an "unknown" top 10 pick.

the general consensus was that he was a 'can't miss pick'.

 

-one team had him a 4th overall.

- huge upside.  16 playoff goals in his draft year.

-Ryan O'Reilly, Patrice Bergeron

etc.

 

 

Wow....

Wennberg was there. I love Bo-Ho, and he may be better than Wennberg, but that kid is sick.

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I remember I was hating so much on that day when Gillis made that trade. Schneids was a top notch #1 goalie and was ready to step in as starter. But no regrets at all now. Bo would probably go on the top 5 had we have a redraft of that draft. Can't complain any longer. He's a heart and soul player an gives his all each and every game and puts everything on the line. His work ethic is effortless. I thank Gillis for making the best trade in his tenure ever. Bo is the future #1 C the Canucks and us as fans have been waiting for and future captain as well. 

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5 hours ago, khay said:

Interestingly enough, Schneider has never cracked the 30 wins mark in a season.

 

Horvat may crack 30 goals this season if he can get to about 15 goals by the half point mark of the season. Since he normally performs better in the second half, I think he has a shot at reaching 30 goals.

 

Ideally, I would like us to have both of these players. If Luongo's contract was more manageable, then maybe we could have gotten a first round pick in the vicinity of the 9th overall to draft Horvat and still keep Schneider.

 

We went from Luongo-Schneider to Markstrom-Horvat... which isn't too bad but we lost two elite goalies for potentially solid goalie and a worst case 2nd line center. 

 

If Horvat gets 30 this year I'll sh!t my pants in joy! 

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Timeline wise Horvat is better for this team. We dont need an elite goalie making our dog crap team too good to draft in the bottom 5, but we do need a very solid center thats only 21 now and will be in his prime by the time we are any good 

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6 hours ago, Fateless said:

The trade was excellent in my opinion. At what point since Schneider was traded has goaltending been the reason the Canucks have failed to ice a good team? Never. Whether we have Luongo, Schneider, Miller or Markstrom in net, this team was going to go downhill as we rebuilt our aging core. Schneider would age during our transition period and would be past his peak by the time we are ready to compete again.

 

While Schneider is obviously a better goalie than the two currently playing for the Canucks, he wouldn't have been a difference maker and with Demko in the long-term plans of this teams future - trading for Horvat was the best move Gillis ever made.

This.

 

 

However the trade was never about Bo, it was Schneider and the value the Canucks had to settle for. Arguably a top3 cornerstone goalie in the entire world in Schneider - we definitely sold short on him. He can flat out steal games and it's been evident seeing his play on that Devils team. 

 

...I loved that we got Bo, but didn't like the return as a goalie of that calibre should never be traded for just that. Was a huge risk but the Canucks hit the jackpot and were very very very fortunate it was Bo that was still up on the board when our turn came around. 

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5 hours ago, oldnews said:

The trade was at the time of the pick though - the Canucks weren't going in blind - they knew the player they were getting.

That may not eliminate the risk, but it makes it far, far easier to assess, particularly with the type of player they were targetting.

 

The thing about the Edmonton deal that people don't consider - aside from being inside their divison (where the Canucks were probably far more comfortable sending Schneider to the Eastern Conference) - in context at the time of the Edmonton offers before the draft, the Canucks don't know who they'd be getting at that spot.

It's all speculation, but in hindsight it is easier.    As McGuire mentioned - one team had Horvat at 4.

Now if Vancouver had a pair of key targets in that draft - say Monahan and Horvat - they were guaranteed of neither of them if they cut that pre-draft deal with Edmonton.

 

In any event I think the people that projected him closer to 5 were probably the better scouts / draft people.

 

Schneider is a great starter - but he was also one of Gillis' late 1sts (26th overall) that he converted into a top 10 pick that might better be considered closer to a top 5 pick.

People can rip and mock Gillis all they want - but there are two very clear things he deserves a lot of credit for.

 

1) Identifying and developing Schneider into a legit NHL starter and upticking his value.

2) Identifying Horvat as a key foundational piece for the future of the franchise - and making the hard decision to look further to the future (while in a tight competitive position) to ensure the team had a future cornerstone in their system before the prospect gap grew even larger.

Gillis didn't draft Schneider..Nonis did...

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We haven't forgotten, Gillis never got full value for Cory and we're lucky Bo's turning out how he is. If Bo had gone the way of say, a Hunter Shinkaruk, fans would still be fussing about it. Regardless of how Bo's career goes it will always be a bad trade, we traded a potentially elite starter who was trending upwards for a lottery ticket. One lottery ticket and not the highest of lottery tickets either. We're lucky the hockey gods smiled on us for once.

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8 hours ago, oldnews said:

not really.

don't know anyone that considered him a 'total gamble'.  or an "unknown" top 10 pick.

the general consensus was that he was a 'can't miss pick'.

 

Ever heard of Ray Martynuik? He was dubbed "the can't miss kid". Drafted 5th overall in 1970, it was the second highest selection of a goalie at the time. He never played an NHL game. He's on THN's list of top 5 NHL draft busts of all time. There's no such thing as a "can't miss" pick. Ask Alexander "The Next Great One" Daigle.

 

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