(Rumour) Gillis and Gilman in talks with NY Islanders

[D-Money]

15 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

So what? The so what is this - are the Blackhawks handcuffed? You don't have to tire fire the organization's prospects the way MG did to achieve success.

 

When you run down that history it breaks down like this:

1. resigning a lot of guys that wanted to be here that Burke and Nonis worked hard to get and draft. 

2. Near total drafting disaster. 

3. Litany of low quality signings - yah that Lee Sweatt deal was remarkable GM-ing.

4. Anchor contracts like Ballard & Booth. 

5. A few good signings like Hamhuis but I still think had he treated Willie Mitchell properly we would have been better off and could have really used Willie's leadership vs BOS.

 

Burke and Nonis brought the core in. They were invested in being here. Sure Gillis kept them but look at that Luongo contract - that alone is in the top 5 worst NHL contracts ever and may really come back to hurt us. If Lu retires early it could cost us 8.5 million in 2021 in cap space. Sure the league was involved, but Gillis is responsible for circumventing the cap in such a way that the league had to act - imagine if they allowed that? Every team would act as if they'd have guys playing until 45. It was idiotic. 

 

 

Low quality signings? GTFO.

 

The best UFA signing in Canucks history is probably Hamhuis. One of the best FA steals in recent memory was Samuelsson. Malhotra would have been another one had it not been for the eye injury. Sundin and Demitra were no slouches, and helped shape the culture of the team. And how's that Tanev guy working out?

 

...Lee Sweatt? Seriously? You point to a low-risk depth move to prove something? I see your Lee Sweatt, and raise you Marc Chouinard, Byron Ritchie, and Brad frickin' Isbister.

 

As for Mitchell, at the time Willie went to FA it was unknown if he would ever be able to play again, let alone well. He wasn't even medically cleared to sign a contract until close to the beginning of the season. A contending team couldn't sit on their hands and hope he'd pan out.

 

 

[JM_]

Just now, D-Money said:

 

Low quality signings? GTFO.

 

The best UFA signing in Canucks history is probably Hamhuis. One of the best FA steals in recent memory was Samuelsson. Malhotra would have been another one had it not been for the eye injury. Sundin and Demitra were no slouches, and helped shape the culture of the team. And how's that Tanev guy working out?

 

...Lee Sweatt? Seriously? You point to a low-risk depth move to prove something? I see your Lee Sweatt, and raise you Marc Chouinard, Byron Ritchie, and Brad frickin' Isbister.

 

As for Mitchell, at the time Willie went to FA it was unknown if he would ever be able to play again, let alone well. He wasn't even medically cleared to sign a contract until close to the beginning of the season. A contending team couldn't sit on their hands and hope he'd pan out.

 

 

 

Look at this full signing history - on the whole its terrible. Add to that the lack of drafting and here we are today. Sundin shaped the future?? OK....  A contending team couldn't wait? OK tell that to LA.

 

People are giving him credit for trading Lu - but they seem to be under the impression that we're no longer effected by Gillis' "genius" on that one - its the Canucks that will suffer the cap recapture penalty on Lu's deal, not Florida. 

 

Go back to the link from the poster on p2 that shows Gillis history. Erase Anything that had to do with Burke and Nonis. You're left with about 20% good, 50% bad, 30% potentially disastrous in Lu's cap recapture debacle. 

[PhillipBlunt]

1 hour ago, Whale Tail said:

 

My work computer does this to with tweets etc. if you find out what it is please let me know! Drives me crazy. 

Me too. When I'm responding to posts, it's like my computer is having a seizure.

 

Some say it's Explorer.

[Whale Tail]

Just now, PhillipBlunt said:

Me too. When I'm responding to posts, it's like my computer is having a seizure.

 

Some say it's Explorer.

Could be. Use Firefox at home and don't get it. 

[Ghostsof1915]

Gillis was lucky twice. 

 

First is Sundin didn't accept his first deal at 2 years. 

Second, San Jose needing to be cap compliant and traded Errorhof for two duds to get cap space. 

(Not much of a steal, when you consider he only had him for 2 seasons)

[ShakyWalton]

I would trade Weisbrod for Gillman right now.

[Ghostsof1915]

3 minutes ago, ShakyWalton said:

I would trade Weisbrod for Gillman right now.

 

Now that makes sense. Maybe Weisbrod can find himself working with the Cleveland Browns. 

[elvis15]

3 hours ago, Ossi Vaananen said:

These guys are used to spending to the cap, while the Islanders have no interest in doing so. It'll be interesting to see. Neither are draft gurus either. 

Gilman is a cap guru though. They could use that when considering contracts, even if spending under the cap.

[combover]

He's a good gm and better than a lot currently working, mg and lg are a great combo. LG should never have been let go by van. 

 

Hope he gets the gig both are smart guys and know what it takes to win. 

 

As for dreger maybe he should look at what been getting handed out since in van 

sbisa contract 

dorsett contract 

sutter ntc

miller ntc

vrbata ntc

ericson ntc

i didn't like gillis handing ntc/mnc either but it saved a lot of cap space at that time.ntc and less money.

Benning pays top dollar and hands out ntcs.

 Captain coat tails nonis has had three shots at gm and been a failure every time. 

 

 

 

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

2 hours ago, Patrick Kane said:

JB hasn't built anything worth mentioning yet.

 

Quote

 In the summer of 2006, he became the assistant general manager of the Boston Bruins. His name was included on the Stanley Cup for the first time with the Bruins after their Stanley Cup Championship in 2011.

 

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Benning

[apollo]

1 hour ago, S'all Good Man said:

Burke and Nonis brought the core in. They were invested in being here. Sure Gillis kept them but look at that Luongo contract - that alone is in the top 5 worst NHL contracts ever and may really come back to hurt us. If Lu retires early it could cost us 8.5 million in 2021 in cap space. Sure the league was involved, but Gillis is responsible for circumventing the cap in such a way that the league had to act - imagine if they allowed that? but they did allow it at the time... and other teams tried... Luongos made sense and could be argued that he would play the lenght of it. Every team would act as if they'd have guys playing until 45. It was idiotic. 

 

I usually agree with you but this one I gotta argue on. 

Roberto's deal was signed in 2009... at the time his cap hit should have easily been north of 7 million. Gillis got him to sign at an absolute bargain and saved us 1.7 on the cap... which led to being able to fit in a lappy and higgins at the deadline which got us to the SCF which we rightfully deserved to win. Not to mention both back to back president trophy teams wouldn't have had the same assets had we not had the 1.7 million to spend. 

 

The contract was absolute genius until the NHL made up a dumbass rule and handcuffed MG. No way in hell should you be able to introduce a rule like that and not grandfather it. I'm sure aquamans lawyers will get the job done when Luongo does retire before it's over. 

 

MG certainly didn't handle the goalie situation too well after... but to say that contract was top 5 worst is an insult to his intelligence. It's arguably one of the greatest contracts in the history of hockey for a perennial superstar, and 1st ballot hall of famer who turned this franchise around with the help of the Sedins. No GM would have been able to sign a guy of Luongos caliber to that deal. None. MG is 10x the negotiator Jimbo is. 

 

 

[D-Money]

1 hour ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

Look at this full signing history - on the whole its terrible. Add to that the lack of drafting and here we are today. Sundin shaped the future?? OK....  A contending team couldn't wait? OK tell that to LA.

 

People are giving him credit for trading Lu - but they seem to be under the impression that we're no longer effected by Gillis' "genius" on that one - its the Canucks that will suffer the cap recapture penalty on Lu's deal, not Florida. 

 

Go back to the link from the poster on p2 that shows Gillis history. Erase Anything that had to do with Burke and Nonis. You're left with about 20% good, 50% bad, 30% potentially disastrous in Lu's cap recapture debacle. 

 

I just stated 3 outstanding free agent signings (Hamhuis, Samuelsson, and Malhotra), and 2 other solid ones (Sundin, Demitra) in his 6 years on the job. Plus the best college free agent signing we've ever had (Tanev). You don't seem to comprehend how difficult it is to find key contributors at reasonable rates in free agency. The fact that he did it multiple times was one of the main reasons the team was able to go from good to dominant so quickly.

 

And guess who else were Gillis' signings? Henrik, Daniel, Kesler, Edler, Luongo, etc. He may not have originally acquired them, but he managed to retain them all and fit them into a masterful cap structure.

 

As time went on, yes, Gillis made some mis-steps. Mostly because he was taking chances to try to acquire talent without much left to offer in trade chips or cap space, to extend the window to contend longer than it should naturally have been. But the strange hire of Torts, the radio interview that preceded his firing, the rumours that have constantly circulated since, and some of Benning's seemingly strange moves all lead me to believe that the decision to put off a rebuild was not necessarily entirely his.

 

Lastly, regarding your "contending team couldn't wait" comment...what the hell are you talking about? L.A. was a young team, that had made it to the postseason for the first time in years. They were most definitely not considered a contender.

 

[D-Money]

3 minutes ago, apollo said:

I usually agree with you but this one I gotta argue on. 

Roberto's deal was signed in 2009... at the time his cap hit should have easily been north of 7 million. Gillis got him to sign at an absolute bargain and saved us 1.7 on the cap... which led to being able to fit in a lappy and higgins at the deadline which got us to the SCF which we rightfully deserved to win. Not to mention both back to back president trophy teams wouldn't have had the same assets had we not had the 1.7 million to spend. 

 

The contract was absolute genius until the NHL made up a dumbass rule and handcuffed MG. No way in hell should you be able to introduce a rule like that and not grandfather it. I'm sure aquamans lawyers will get the job done when Luongo does retire before it's over. 

 

MG certainly didn't handle the goalie situation too well after... but to say that contract was top 5 worst is an insult to his intelligence. It's arguably one of the greatest contracts in the history of hockey for a perennial superstar, and 1st ballot hall of famer who turned this franchise around with the help of the Sedins. No GM would have been able to sign a guy of Luongos caliber to that deal. None. MG is 10x the negotiator Jimbo is. 

 

 

On this note, I wonder if the NHL will revisit this soon. Mostly because the golden child franchise, the Chicago Blackhawks, are going to be facing it next season.

 

Marian Hossa has 4 years left on his contract, with an actual salary of only $1 million each season. He turns 38 next month, will have been paid $59 million from Chicago, and won 3 Stanley cups. He's not going to continue to grind it out for only a million bucks per year. That means that for the next 4 years, the Hawks will have a recapture penalty of around $4.275 million.

 

...Of course, watch him get some sort of "mystery injury", and just get glossed over. Meanwhile, Luongo has no reason to bother with that to help the Canucks.

[PhillipBlunt]

19 minutes ago, D-Money said:

I just stated 3 outstanding free agent signings (Hamhuis, Samuelsson, and Malhotra), and 2 other solid ones (Sundin, Demitra) in his 6 years on the job. Plus the best college free agent signing we've ever had (Tanev). You don't seem to comprehend how difficult it is to find key contributors at reasonable rates in free agency. The fact that he did it multiple times was one of the main reasons the team was able to go from good to dominant so quickly.

The free agent signings were pretty key, no doubt about that. And if Gillis had somehow beaten Poile to the punch with Weber, no one would be saying anything negative about Gillis. Sundin was a placeholder and a mentor, at an extremely high cost, not sure it was worth it, but possibly. Demitra was hot and cold.

 

Tanev and Hutton were both college signings, no? And the trade for Horvat, as well.

Quote

And guess who else were Gillis' signings? Henrik, Daniel, Kesler, Edler, Luongo, etc. He may not have originally acquired them, but he managed to retain them all and fit them into a masterful cap structure.

Luongo's contract wasn't and isn't exactly masterful, and signing the Twins to massive contracts in their 30's instead of their prime was another oversight.

 

Kesler, while a shrewd signing at the time, never had truly complimentary linemates here. Gillis tried role players and it never worked.

 

Edler was given far too much term for his inconsistent play. Decent salary, but in the grand scheme of things, might be a tad high.

Quote

As time went on, yes, Gillis made some mis-steps. Mostly because he was taking chances to try to acquire talent without much left to offer in trade chips or cap space, to extend the window to contend longer than it should naturally have been.

The biggest mis-step was not making significant trades after being ousted again in the first round by San Jose. The team's makeup should have been altered there, but it wasn't.

Quote

But the strange hire of Torts, the radio interview that preceded his firing, the rumours that have constantly circulated since, and some of Benning's seemingly strange moves all lead me to believe that the decision to put off a rebuild was not necessarily entirely his.

But without any concrete proof, it remains a rumour.

 

That being said, Gillis is far from a flop, and deserves some credit, along with Gilman for capology. His drafting however, was pretty horrible, when looked at in entirety. I think that is the bone of contention that the angry mobs tend to choke on.

 

 

[D-Money]

1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said:

The free agent signings were pretty key, no doubt about that. And if Gillis had somehow beaten Poile to the punch with Weber, no one would be saying anything negative about Gillis. Sundin was a placeholder and a mentor, at an extremely high cost, not sure it was worth it, but possibly. Demitra was hot and cold.

 

Tanev and Hutton were both college signings, no? And the trade for Horvat, as well.

Luongo's contract wasn't and isn't exactly masterful, and signing the Twins to massive contracts in their 30's instead of their prime was another oversight.

 

Kesler, while a shrewd signing at the time, never had truly complimentary linemates here. Gillis tried role players and it never worked.

 

Edler was given far too much term for his inconsistent play. Decent salary, but in the grand scheme of things, might be a tad high.

The biggest mis-step was not making significant trades after being ousted again in the first round by San Jose. The team's makeup should have been altered there, but it wasn't.

But without any concrete proof, it remains a rumour.

 

 

 

- There was no cap recapture penalty when Gillis signed Luongo. It would be a complete non-issue had it not been added later.

- Hutton was a Gillis pick, 5th rounder.

- Edler was not inconsistent when he was given that contract. But for whatever reason - either laziness after getting paid, or after-effects from injuries...perhaps both - he hasn't been the same player since.

- ...A pretty well-substantiated rumour - I've heard multiple journalists with multiple sources state it basically as fact (Friedman, Marek, Gallagher...)

[PhillipBlunt]

5 minutes ago, D-Money said:

 

- There was no cap recapture penalty when Gillis signed Luongo. It would be a complete non-issue had it not been added later.

12 years though?

Quote

- Hutton was a Gillis pick, 5th rounder.

Good to know. I've always thought he was a free agent acquisition. Along with Horvat, two decent draft acquisitions.

Quote

- Edler was not inconsistent when he was given that contract. But for whatever reason - either laziness after getting paid, or after-effects from injuries...perhaps both - he hasn't been the same player since.

This year has been his most consistent in some time, except for the hand injury.

Quote

- ...A pretty well-substantiated rumour - I've heard multiple journalists with multiple sources state it basically as fact (Friedman, Marek, Gallagher...)

Friedman's bread and butter are rumours and speculations. Marek and Gallagher are...well.......Now if McKenzie or LeBrun make a statement on it, it might have some legs to it.

[apollo]

1 hour ago, D-Money said:

 

On this note, I wonder if the NHL will revisit this soon. Mostly because the golden child franchise, the Chicago Blackhawks, are going to be facing it next season.

 

Marian Hossa has 4 years left on his contract, with an actual salary of only $1 million each season. He turns 38 next month, will have been paid $59 million from Chicago, and won 3 Stanley cups. He's not going to continue to grind it out for only a million bucks per year. That means that for the next 4 years, the Hawks will have a recapture penalty of around $4.275 million.

 

...Of course, watch him get some sort of "mystery injury", and just get glossed over. Meanwhile, Luongo has no reason to bother with that to help the Canucks.

Or perhaps he'll get caught with drugs and have his contract terminated... what a joke that was. I have a feeling they'll come up with something for Hossa as you said as well. 

 

Also I don't remember if Lui's was after or before the Kovalchuk one but it wasn't outrageous enough to get veto'd like Kovalchuks initial contract... so MG %100 played by the rules. 

Imagine what could have been had the NHL not made up that garbage rule and we got fair value on the Luongo trade... sigh........ definitely wouldn't have had to retain that 800k

[Drakrami]

4 hours ago, coastal.view said:

haha

Pat Quinn says hi

and over his shoulder Brian Burke is also waving

Gillis was certainly decent and did a good job with what he inherited - he managed a team rich in talent

but you are ignoring his biggest flaw and that is the poor shape the organization was in when he left

he is not the best gm here and likely is not in the top 3

 

edit: and the fact that few or no teams expressed much interest up till now should also give you a clue about what other hockey people think/thought of him

 

you know your last sentence is self contradicting right? you also read above he is under Canucks contract right? 

[King Heffy]

Garth Snow is a better GM than Gillis.  Wouldn't mind seeing that idiot destroy another team though.

[elvis15]

4 minutes ago, apollo said:

Or perhaps he'll get caught with drugs and have his contract terminated... what a joke that was. I have a feeling they'll come up with something for Hossa as you said as well. 

 

Also I don't remember if Lui's was after or before the Kovalchuk one but it wasn't outrageous enough to get veto'd like Kovalchuks initial contract... so MG %100 played by the rules. 

Imagine what could have been had the NHL not made up that garbage rule and we got fair value on the Luongo trade... sigh........ definitely wouldn't have had to retain that 800k

It was prior to Kovi's first deal. The order was Zetterberg and Hossa, then Luongo following, then Kovi (which then got overturned so they had to re-do it). With the Luongo signing, the NHL chose to investigate these types of deals. They discussed it in depth but didn't overturn it, in part because by the time they caught up, Zetterberg and Hossa were already playing on their new contracts. In fact, while the discussions continued, Hossa and the Hawks went on to win the cup that year. There was no way for them to overturn them at that point, not without also overturning the first cup in years for an Original Six franchise.