(Rumour) Gillis and Gilman in talks with NY Islanders

[Lancaster]

4 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Gillis was lucky twice. 

 

First is Sundin didn't accept his first deal at 2 years. 

Second, San Jose needing to be cap compliant and traded Errorhof for two duds to get cap space. 

(Not much of a steal, when you consider he only had him for 2 seasons)

 

IMO... Sundin staying year 2 fully committed would have pushed the Canucks over the top.

His last final full season, he was still PPG.  Even if he takes the secondary role and put up only 60pts... that's damn good for a 2nd line centre (chances are he would be at least PPG or more playing alongside Demitra/Kesler/whoever against 2nd pairing).

 

Ehrhoff's presence coincided with the Sedin's back-to-back Art Ross trophy.  Not saying he was the reason for it, but when you correlate the amount of points generated with each other, it's pretty much a fact that they all help contribute to each other's success.  The Sedins haven't nearly reached that level of production since Ehrhoff left town.  

[Ghostsof1915]

2 hours ago, Lancaster said:

 

IMO... Sundin staying year 2 fully committed would have pushed the Canucks over the top.

His last final full season, he was still PPG.  Even if he takes the secondary role and put up only 60pts... that's damn good for a 2nd line centre (chances are he would be at least PPG or more playing alongside Demitra/Kesler/whoever against 2nd pairing).

 

Ehrhoff's presence coincided with the Sedin's back-to-back Art Ross trophy.  Not saying he was the reason for it, but when you correlate the amount of points generated with each other, it's pretty much a fact that they all help contribute to each other's success.  The Sedins haven't nearly reached that level of production since Ehrhoff left town.  

 

There was no way the Canucks would have afforded Sundin in year two at $10 million, without making trades. So it's impossible to say it would have put the team "over the top". Might as well say if Bourdon never got into the accident on the motorcycle, and Manny didn't get hit in the eye with a puck the team would have won the cup. (RIP Luc)

[Crabcakes]

9 hours ago, TheRussianRocket. said:

Say what you want but MG was the greatest GM in franchise history. The things he was able to accomplish were amazing and it led to the best stretch of Canucks hockey ever.

 

...I've been wondering for a couple years now why no one else has given him a shot seeing he has an incredible track record - the way he was able to turn Vancouver around. Would love to see both Gillis and Gilman back in the league - both are management wizards.

Gillis was a good fit for the Canucks at the stage of development they were in at the time he was hired (April 2008).  His area of expertise is contracts and for a team that had many pieces in place this was exactly the skill set needed.

 

He also put some nice finishing touches on the Canucks.

 

Year 1, 2008-09.  Not re-sign Naslund or Morrison

                            Pitched for Matts Sundin.  Offered the then 37 year old a 2 year, $20M contract.  He refused and in Dec agreed to an $8.6M contract                                     for the remainder of the season.  His chief contribution was as a mentor to the Sedins, Kesler and others

                            Signed Burrows to his 4 year 1.9M cap hit contract that would last through his best years

Year 2, 2009-10  Travelled to Sweden to sign the Sedins to 5 year $30,5M contracts at age 29

                            Signed Luongo to one sucky contract.  12 years, $64M at age 30

                            Signed free agents Samuelsson and Shirokov

                            Traded for Ehrhoff (and Lukowich for White and Rahimi)

Year 3, 2010-11  Traded for Ballard (for Grabler and Bernier)

                           Signed free agents Hamhuis and Malhotra

 

Gillis put the Canucks over the top.  But he did so with some pretty audacious measures.  He also neglected drafting and developing with an abysmal record until 2012 when he realized that the core of his team had peaked.  In 2012 he drafted Brendan Gaunce and convinced ownership to set up and own an AHL franchise.  In 2013, he traded Schneider for the 9th OA pick (Bo Horvat).  At the same time, things began to fall apart.  Before trading Schneider, he had been shopping his other star goalie, Luongo.  He had moved along from AV who was the coach of the team when he signed on.  Then he hired Tortorella after a weekend interview and not hiring the supposed front runner John Stevens.

 

Anybody who hired Gillis in the future must be aware of his limitations.  He is disliked by many in the business and will ignore certain parts of the GM's duties while doing what he considers to be essential.

[Canuck Surfer]

8 hours ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

Its always easier to see the "holes" left by the guy before. Yes Manny in particular was a great signing, but don't you think Nonis could have found the same or similar guys? 

 

Could Nonis have?  Sure...

 

But I never had much sense of confidence in Nonis. 

[Canuck Surfer]

8 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Me too. When I'm responding to posts, it's like my computer is having a seizure.

 

Some say it's Explorer.

Seems related to any tweet on CDC?

 

Does it on Chrome, also on my I-phone browser.  As soon as a tweet is in one of the threads...

[JM_]

15 hours ago, D-Money said:

 

I just stated 3 outstanding free agent signings (Hamhuis, Samuelsson, and Malhotra), and 2 other solid ones (Sundin, Demitra) in his 6 years on the job. Plus the best college free agent signing we've ever had (Tanev). You don't seem to comprehend how difficult it is to find key contributors at reasonable rates in free agency. The fact that he did it multiple times was one of the main reasons the team was able to go from good to dominant so quickly.

 

And guess who else were Gillis' signings? Henrik, Daniel, Kesler, Edler, Luongo, etc. He may not have originally acquired them, but he managed to retain them all and fit them into a masterful cap structure.

 

As time went on, yes, Gillis made some mis-steps. Mostly because he was taking chances to try to acquire talent without much left to offer in trade chips or cap space, to extend the window to contend longer than it should naturally have been. But the strange hire of Torts, the radio interview that preceded his firing, the rumours that have constantly circulated since, and some of Benning's seemingly strange moves all lead me to believe that the decision to put off a rebuild was not necessarily entirely his.

 

Lastly, regarding your "contending team couldn't wait" comment...what the hell are you talking about? L.A. was a young team, that had made it to the postseason for the first time in years. They were most definitely not considered a contender.

 

 

 

The way I see it is this: he mortgaged the future for a decade, and didn't deliver, and left us in a situation with a potentially devastating contract problem. If you want to give him a parade go ahead. 

 

 

 

[JM_]

8 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Could Nonis have?  Sure...

 

But I never had much sense of confidence in Nonis. 

 

I think so. Maybe not everyone but enough. If we didn't have Higgy e.g., do we not make a run? 

 

People are upset with Linden and Benning now for the lack of prospects, but that canyon-like gap in talent is the price Gillis paid, and it was too high. If you look at the talent pool of every other team thats made a run in the last decade you can see the difference. So,nope, I do not give him credit for overspending. Plus, how did the rest of the league judge a lot of that "talent"? What did we get in return? Two buyouts, no trades, not even for picks. 

 

Now, add to that letting the Lu situation get insane - when Schneid's was clearly the guy who would get traded! - its just incomprehensible how he let that get so bad. 

[JM_]

15 hours ago, apollo said:

I usually agree with you but this one I gotta argue on. 

Roberto's deal was signed in 2009... at the time his cap hit should have easily been north of 7 million. Gillis got him to sign at an absolute bargain and saved us 1.7 on the cap... which led to being able to fit in a lappy and higgins at the deadline which got us to the SCF which we rightfully deserved to win. Not to mention both back to back president trophy teams wouldn't have had the same assets had we not had the 1.7 million to spend. 

 

The contract was absolute genius until the NHL made up a dumbass rule and handcuffed MG. No way in hell should you be able to introduce a rule like that and not grandfather it. I'm sure aquamans lawyers will get the job done when Luongo does retire before it's over. 

 

MG certainly didn't handle the goalie situation too well after... but to say that contract was top 5 worst is an insult to his intelligence. It's arguably one of the greatest contracts in the history of hockey for a perennial superstar, and 1st ballot hall of famer who turned this franchise around with the help of the Sedins. No GM would have been able to sign a guy of Luongos caliber to that deal. None. MG is 10x the negotiator Jimbo is. 

 

 

 

I disagree but +1 for the respectful rebuttal 

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

 

The way I see it is this: he mortgaged the future for a decade, and didn't deliver, and left us in a situation with a potentially devastating contract problem. If you want to give him a parade go ahead. 

 

 

 

Isn't Gillis the guy who looked like Mr. Tomato head?  

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Isn't Gillis the guy who looked like Mr. Tomato head?  

 

My dad used to say anyone that sweats that much has something to hide  Some old country logic there. 

 

I don't think Gillis was stupid, but he was a bad asset manager and very bad on the people-side of the business - thats probably why Aquaman went and got Linden, for that one reason alone. 

[D-Money]

11 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

The way I see it is this: he mortgaged the future for a decade, and didn't deliver, and left us in a situation with a potentially devastating contract problem. If you want to give him a parade go ahead. 

 

For a decade? Geez, that's impressive, considering he was only employed for 6 years.

 

Having your top prospect get killed, then your top pick screw up his back while self-training is hardly on the GM. And he ended up building the most dominant team in franchise history. But the combination of multiple injuries (Malhotra eye, Raymond back, Daniel getting chicken-winged after the deadline) and the emergence of the strongest dynasty team the league has seen in decades (Chicago) prevented us from winning it all. Gillis did all he could.

 

But by the end, it needed to be rebuilt. Gillis knew that, hence the Schneider trade. And yet, after 2.5 years of Benning, with two very strong drafts, the only true top-end talent we have is still Horvat. (Juolevi looks good too, but damn if Tkachuk doesn't look even better. And Virtanen may still pan out, but look at what Nylander/Ehlers are accomplishing.) So who really did more for the rebuild so far?

 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

My dad used to say anyone that sweats that much has something to hide  Some old country logic there. 

 

I don't think Gillis was stupid, but he was a bad asset manager and very bad on the people-side of the business - thats probably why Aquaman went and got Linden, for that one reason alone. 

Gillis had great timing.  The core was already in place.  Do the islanders have a core, like we had, in place?  They don't have a goalie, do they?

[D-Money]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Gillis had great timing.  The core was already in place.  Do the islanders have a core, like we had, in place?  They don't have a goalie, do they?

 

They have Halak. Stephon Williams is a pretty good goaltending prospect. But the key goalie is Ilya Sorokin...but they have to convince him to come over.

 

They would be looking a helluva lot better if they re-signed Okposo instead of signing Ladd. Made no sense whatsoever.

 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, D-Money said:

 

For a decade? Geez, that's impressive, considering he was only employed for 6 years.

 

Having your top prospect get killed, then your top pick screw up his back while self-training is hardly on the GM. And he ended up building the most dominant team in franchise history. But the combination of injuries and the emergence of the strongest dynasty team the league has seen in decades (Chicago) prevented us from winning it all. Gillis did all he could.

 

But by the end, it needed to be rebuilt. Gillis knew that, hence the Schneider trade. And yet, 2.5 years later, with two very strong drafts, the only true top-end talent we have is still Horvat (Juolevi looks good too, but damn if Tkachuk doesn't look even better). So who really did more for the rebuild so far?

 

 

Benning. Go have a look at the prospect depth chart for college and QMJ in particular. 

 

And yes, for a decade going forward from when he started as GM. The effect of the prospect gap is being felt right now. Do you think Megna is an accident? 

 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, D-Money said:

 

They have Halak. Stephon Williams is a great goalie prospect, but they have to convince him to come over.

 

They would be looking a helluva lot better if they re-signed Okposo instead of signing Ladd. Made no sense whatsoever.

 

I wonder if Gillis can build around the Islanders current core, our would he be expected to go full rebuild?

[D-Money]

17 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

Benning. Go have a look at the prospect depth chart for college and QMJ in particular. 

 

And yes, for a decade going forward from when he started as GM. The effect of the prospect gap is being felt right now. Do you think Megna is an accident? 

 

Depth guys can be found lots of places, and often don't require spending picks/prospects to get in the first place. The only thing that moves the needle is top end talent.

 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, D-Money said:

 

Depth guys can be found lots of places, and often don't require spending picks/prospects to get in the first place. The only thing that moves the needle is top end talent.

 

And top end talent (as we have with the Twins) comes - most often - in those top picks.  

[D-Money]

17 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I wonder if Gillis can build around the Islanders current core, our would he be expected to go full rebuild?

 

A core is still there...and lots coming through the system:

 

Tavares, Nelson, Lee, Hamonic, Strome, Pulock, Barzal, De Haan, Beauvillier, Sorokin, MDC, Ho-Sang, Cizikas...

 

Gillis makes sense because he's been a guy who can fill out a young team to get them to the next level. But he's also known as a team guy, who makes his players want to stay. The Islanders' #1 priority right now is to convince Tavares to re-sign, so MG is probably the right guy to make that happen.

 

[ice orca]

14 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Garth Snow is a better GM than Gillis.  Wouldn't mind seeing that idiot destroy another team though.

I guess all the rest of the Gm's  in the league must be dumb...they voted him GM of the year even the dumpster diver Burke.

[D-Money]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

And top end talent (as we have with the Twins) comes - most often - in those top picks.  

 

Exactly.

 

First off, it looks like Benning screwed up a chance at a top-end talent by picking Virtanen. It may pan out still, but not looking good. At this point, I think most would be happy if Jake developed into a strong middle-6 PWF.

 

Then going forward, had we not screwed around with Miller, Vrbata, Bonino, etc., would we have finished lower in the standings the last few years? Probably. Which would have meant instead of a 1st round flame-out against the Flames, we would have been drafting high in the ridiculously strong 2015 draft. We could have been in the running for top-8 picks: McDavid, Eichel, Strome, Marner, Hanifin, Zacha, Provorov, Werenski.

 

And even then, we still flamed out last year and ended up 3rd last. Again, without the vets, maybe we would have been even lower and picking Matthews or PLD, but whatever. But still the black mark was not being able to get ANYTHING for ANYONE at the deadline. I still look back at that and think what a ridiculous screw-up that was by management.

 

So, did we learn? Nope. Traded for youth for Gudbranson, signed Eriksson. Both look less than impressive, and the team continues to meander.