Alflives Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 2 hours ago, alfstonker said: That is no answer. I asked for players in a team who are not up to the NHL i.e. like McCann and a lesser extent Virtanen (which in Vancouver's case was down to the rules) Which players in the Leafs are not ready to play in the NHL? Considering their last place finish last season, there were many on the Leafs not of NHL quality. Plus, Babcock knows (as expressed in his comments) that he is able to put his young players on the ice, allowing for their mistakes. Willie, doesn't have the same luxury, does he? Willie's mandate is to win, and make the playoffs. Babcok's is to develop the young players, even though those young players make mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanuck94 Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 5 hours ago, Alflives said: I think we had more prospects who didn't turn out. This issue is we currently have so few prospects. We are kind of hanging our hat on all of them turning out, because JB traded away so many picks since he's been here. Seriously, stop. The only picks JB has traded away that weren't for young players (which is what picks turn into if you didn't know) are: Larsen for a 5th Prust for a 5th and Kassian Sutter and 3rd for 2nd Bonino and Clendenning (switched positions, didn't even lose a pick) Dorsett for a 3rd and a couple young players that didn't pan out: Vey for a 2nd Etem for a 6th and Jensen So pretty much we lost 6 picks, while JB in that time has acquired 5 (From Bieksa, McNally, Lack, and Kesler trades) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, MrCanuck94 said: Seriously, stop. The only picks JB has traded away that weren't for young players (which is what picks turn into if you didn't know) are: Larsen for a 5th Prust for a 5th and Kassian Sutter and 3rd for 2nd Bonino and Clendenning (switched positions, didn't even lose a pick) Dorsett for a 3rd and a couple young players that didn't pan out: Vey for a 2nd Etem for a 6th and Jensen So pretty much we lost 6 picks, while JB in that time has acquired 5 (From Bieksa, McNally, Lack, and Kesler trades) I think earlier another poster figured JB traded away 12, while getting back 8. That's 20 picks total he could have used to pretty much quadruple our prospect pool. Then is a couple guys don't work out it's no big deal because we have plenty more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanuck94 Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 11 minutes ago, Alflives said: I think earlier another poster figured JB traded away 12, while getting back 8. That's 20 picks total he could have used to pretty much quadruple our prospect pool. Then is a couple guys don't work out it's no big deal because we have plenty more. yes because we had to fill the age gap, and they weren't wasted picks, we got young players who are developing, which is the same as drafting and developing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, MrCanuck94 said: yes because we had to fill the age gap, and they weren't wasted picks, we got young players who are developing, which is the same as drafting and developing. We got 22 + aged guys, who their teams didn't want. Those guys are place holder until the next group develops, but there is no next group because JB traded the picks to fill that age gap you speak of. Why not just sign UFAs to fill out the roster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 7 hours ago, Camel Toe Drag said: All three of those prospects arguably had some of the best possible semi pro years possible if you consider the hardware and awards they all were considered for and won. Its not excuses. It's facts. They don't have anything else to prove in the minors. Are you serious. They have everything to prove in the minors. The NHL is a priviledge and not a right based on your Jr hockey stats. Players need to ripen in the AHL and excel there. Learn how to be professionals. Training, eating, showing up every shift - every game. So far none of our prospects are excelling in the AHL so they are only long shots at this point...... Hopefully they all turn out but stats / history will tell us that they all will not . It is sad how Canuck fans over rate their prospects. I guess it is human nature . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 1 hour ago, MrCanuck94 said: Seriously, stop. The only picks JB has traded away that weren't for young players (which is what picks turn into if you didn't know) are: Larsen for a 5th Prust for a 5th and Kassian Sutter and 3rd for 2nd Bonino and Clendenning (switched positions, didn't even lose a pick) Dorsett for a 3rd and a couple young players that didn't pan out: Vey for a 2nd Etem for a 6th and Jensen So pretty much we lost 6 picks, while JB in that time has acquired 5 (From Bieksa, McNally, Lack, and Kesler trades) No 2nd or 4th last year, no 2nd the year before. Paying draft picks to avoid being one of the worst teams in the league, only to be one of the worst teams in the league 2 years straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Toe Drag Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said: Are you serious. They have everything to prove in the minors. The NHL is a priviledge and not a right based on your Jr hockey stats. Players need to ripen in the AHL and excel there. Learn how to be professionals. Training, eating, showing up every shift - every game. So far none of our prospects are excelling in the AHL so they are only long shots at this point...... Hopefully they all turn out but stats / history will tell us that they all will not . It is sad how Canuck fans over rate their prospects. I guess it is human nature . So Demko has an amazing year with Boston and nominated for the Hobey Baker. Boeser leads his team to win the frozen four. Juolevi wins the WJC, OHL championship and a memorial cup. There really isn't much left for them to prove in junior. We're having this conversation because you think their performing worse this year when in fact they have already peaked in their respective leagues and are ready for the next level. You don't have to worry about them having less point totals. We know what they are capable of in their leagues. It amazes me how difficult of a person you are to explain things to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Just now, Camel Toe Drag said: So Demko has an amazing year with Boston and nominated for the Hobey Baker. Boeser leads his team to win the frozen four. Juolevi wins the WJC, OHL championship and a memorial cup. There really isn't much left for them to prove in junior. We're having this conversation because you think their performing worse this year when in fact they have already peaked in their respective leagues and are ready for the next level. You don't have to worry about them having less point totals. We know what they are capable of in their leagues. It amazes me how difficult of a person you are to explain things to. Any player that loses production in his final year of jr or NCAA is not the kind of player i would want in my organization. Players with pride and drive will improve every year in Jr and NCAA. Sorry but i want players insane with pride to be the best .... to better themselves constantly.... It amazes me how difficult of a person you are to explain things to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdubuya Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 We are missing elite talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 50 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said: No 2nd or 4th last year, no 2nd the year before. Paying draft picks to avoid being one of the worst teams in the league, only to be one of the worst teams in the league 2 years straight. Fans here in Vancouver have given Benning a free ride so far. Not sure how much longer Benning gets a free pass. He has loaded up our clubs with overpaid cast offs from other teams and failed prospects other team gave up on. Not exactly a recipe for success. Soon Vancouver fans will start to ask hard questions about the moves Benning has made. The temperature on the stove is about to get turned to high for both Benning and Linden....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 8 hours ago, Camel Toe Drag said: All three of those prospects arguably had some of the best possible semi pro years possible if you consider the hardware and awards they all were considered for and won. Its not excuses. It's facts. They don't have anything else to prove in the minors. I thought you posted that they have nothing to prove in the minors.... Your next post you say they have nothing to prove in juniors... Which one do you mean...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Buzzsaw* Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 I think we are missing Matt Duchene... and I think Benning should trade some of the defense and a first rounder for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 44 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Any player that loses production in his final year of jr or NCAA is not the kind of player i would want in my organization. Players with pride and drive will improve every year in Jr and NCAA. Sorry but i want players insane with pride to be the best .... to better themselves constantly.... It amazes me how difficult of a person you are to explain things to. That is so simplistic to be laughable. Playing in a championship team with the best linemates in the league (kind of like Boeser did last year), it doesn't necessarily follow that when those linemates leave (for the NHL) and you are playing with random plugs on an average to poor team... your point totals will go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 11 hours ago, Alflives said: Considering their last place finish last season, there were many on the Leafs not of NHL quality. Plus, Babcock knows (as expressed in his comments) that he is able to put his young players on the ice, allowing for their mistakes. Willie, doesn't have the same luxury, does he? Willie's mandate is to win, and make the playoffs. Babcok's is to develop the young players, even though those young players make mistakes. Still no answer. As I thought, you are lost when you have to think for yourself rather than parrot media dross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 8 hours ago, kingofsurrey said: Any player that loses production in his final year of jr or NCAA is not the kind of player i would want in my organization. Players with pride and drive will improve every year in Jr and NCAA. Sorry but i want players insane with pride to be the best .... to better themselves constantly.... It amazes me how difficult of a person you are to explain things to. Missing a LOT of context there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 4 hours ago, alfstonker said: Still no answer. As I thought, you are lost when you have to think for yourself rather than parrot media dross. Do you honestly believe Willie D has a mandate to develop players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 23 minutes ago, Alflives said: Do you honestly believe Willie D has a mandate to develop players? sometimes a mandate gets thrust upon you whether you like it or not whether or not WD had anything to do with it, it was fun seeing Tyramkin last night and how far he's come along Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said: sometimes a mandate gets thrust upon you whether you like it or not whether or not WD had anything to do with it, it was fun seeing Tyramkin last night and how far he's come along I see Alf is still carrying on with one of his many tired and simply incorrect line's of reasoning still... It's pretty clear that WD and the entire coaching staff in fact, are just fine with and at continuing development of NHL ready/capable players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 11 hours ago, kingofsurrey said: Any player that loses production in his final year of jr or NCAA is not the kind of player i would want in my organization. Players with pride and drive will improve every year in Jr and NCAA. Sorry but i want players insane with pride to be the best .... to better themselves constantly.... It amazes me how difficult of a person you are to explain things to. Well.... maybe but you can have great players that lose top pairing partners because they graduated or went pro and their numbers go down a bit. Boeser might be in that category this year and not quite reach last years phenomenal 60 pts and +45 but by all accounts this kid is a terrific person and should have gone top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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