What pieces are we actually missing?

[JM_]

41 minutes ago, J.R. said:

I see Alf is still carrying on with one of his many tired and simply incorrect line's of reasoning still...

 

It's pretty clear that WD and the entire coaching staff in fact, are just fine with and at continuing development of NHL ready/capable players.

the narrative began with the too-public WD and Virtanen spat... but as we now know, Jake was the issue not Willie. So I think thats kind of carried over a bit. As far as our D development, I think Lidster deserves a lot of credit on readiness and Willie for letting them play and not be benched for inevitable mistakes. Bo's Bo. Bear was given good chances, but its Granny who has really impressed me, he seems to be on the verge of taking things to a high level. So yup, all under Willle. Looking back on things you can be critical on Willie for a lot of moves, but poor development isn't one of them. Is he the coach you want making chess moves in the playoffs? Nope, but this team isn't there yet. 

[Putgolzin]

14 hours ago, Alflives said:

I think earlier another poster figured JB traded away 12, while getting back 8.  That's 20 picks total he could have used to pretty much quadruple our prospect pool.  Then is a couple guys don't work out it's no big deal because we have plenty more.  

thats not 20 picks.

thats the same as saying i traded a ten dollar bill for a five dollar bill, so i'm out fifteen bucks

[Camel Toe Drag]

11 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

 

I thought you posted that they have nothing to prove in the minors....

 

Your next post you say they have nothing to prove in juniors...

 

Which one do you mean...?

They both mean amateur hockey, or nonprofessional hockey. 

 

A great example of this is the CHL or the NCAA!!

 

Starting to make sense?

[aGENT]

18 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

the narrative began with the too-public WD and Virtanen spat... but as we now know, Jake was the issue not Willie. So I think thats kind of carried over a bit. As far as our D development, I think Lidster deserves a lot of credit on readiness and Willie for letting them play and not be benched for inevitable mistakes. Bo's Bo. Bear was given good chances, but its Granny who has really impressed me, he seems to be on the verge of taking things to a high level. So yup, all under Willle. Looking back on things you can be critical on Willie for a lot of moves, but poor development isn't one of them. Is he the coach you want making chess moves in the playoffs? Nope, but this team isn't there yet. 

Do my eyes deceive me?!?  

 

[JM_]

31 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Do my eyes deceive me?!?  

 

nah. I've been very critical of 'ol Wilbrod there's no denying that. I still see no evidence he's a a solid bench coach (re: lines, matchups, etc) and I'd do a jig if we replaced him with a guy like Julien, but you have to acknowledge the development of the young players. 

 

The Province rag is making a big deal over us being "no better" than last year, but that's complete crap. Yes the points are the same, but we have trained up 2 rookie D, 1 sophomore D, and Bear and Granny may have become regular 15-20 goal guys, and Bo's taken the next step, actually well beyond many predicted from him on a scoring level. Clearly if Willie was a crap development guy or a spaz with punishment of withholding minutes or crushing confidence none of that would have happened. With the base of players being developed right now the payoff on points will come soon i think. 

[Fantomex]

2 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

nah. I've been very critical of 'ol Wilbrod there's no denying that. I still see no evidence he's a a solid bench coach (re: lines, matchups, etc) and I'd do a jig if we replaced him with a guy like Julien, but you have to acknowledge the development of the young players. 

 

The Province rag is making a big deal over us being "no better" than last year, but that's complete crap. Yes the points are the same, but we have trained up 2 rookie D, 1 sophomore D, and Bear and Granny may have become regular 15-20 goal guys, and Bo's taken the next step, actually well beyond many predicted from him on a scoring level. Clearly if Willie was a crap development guy or a spaz with punishment of withholding minutes or crushing confidence none of that would have happened. With the base of players being developed right now the payoff on points will come soon i think. 

 

 

It's clearly Willie that has caused the Sedins to regress at a rapid rate. He gives them Big Macs before games.

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

nah. I've been very critical of 'ol Wilbrod there's no denying that. I still see no evidence he's a a solid bench coach (re: lines, matchups, etc) and I'd do a jig if we replaced him with a guy like Julien, but you have to acknowledge the development of the young players. 

 

The Province rag is making a big deal over us being "no better" than last year, but that's complete crap. Yes the points are the same, but we have trained up 2 rookie D, 1 sophomore D, and Bear and Granny may have become regular 15-20 goal guys, and Bo's taken the next step, actually well beyond many predicted from him on a scoring level. Clearly if Willie was a crap development guy or a spaz with punishment of withholding minutes or crushing confidence none of that would have happened. With the base of players being developed right now the payoff on points will come soon i think. 

Out of +'s

[kingofsurrey]

1 hour ago, S'all Good Man said:

Well.... maybe but you can have great players that lose top pairing partners because they graduated or went pro and their numbers go down a bit. Boeser might be in that category this year and not quite reach last years phenomenal 60 pts and +45 but by all accounts this kid is a terrific person and should have gone top 10. 

Yes , of course you are correct.

 

But it is a bit concerning when all 4 of our top prospects are having seasons this year with a  decline in  production / numbers........

 

Generally you hope to see your prospects get better numbers as they get older playing in age /experience  restricted leagues such as Jr or NCAA. 

 

Of course there are exceptions and that may well be Boesners situation... also he had an injury this year.....

 

I am more concerned with our other prospects,  Juolevi, Demko and Virtanen 

[kingofsurrey]

22 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

nah. I've been very critical of 'ol Wilbrod there's no denying that. I still see no evidence he's a a solid bench coach (re: lines, matchups, etc) and I'd do a jig if we replaced him with a guy like Julien, but you have to acknowledge the development of the young players. 

 

The Province rag is making a big deal over us being "no better" than last year, but that's complete crap. Yes the points are the same, but we have trained up 2 rookie D, 1 sophomore D, and Bear and Granny may have become regular 15-20 goal guys, and Bo's taken the next step, actually well beyond many predicted from him on a scoring level. Clearly if Willie was a crap development guy or a spaz with punishment of withholding minutes or crushing confidence none of that would have happened. With the base of players being developed right now the payoff on points will come soon i think. 

Yes Baercheesy and Granny have developed well into potential decent  2nd line players.  At this point they are both still weak second line players.....

 

 The concern for me is that i just don't see first line players on the current canucks roster or anywhere close as prospects.

 

[JM_]

22 minutes ago, Fantomex said:

 

It's clearly Willie that has caused the Sedins to regress at a rapid rate. He gives them Big Macs before games.

and cheesecake. Thats brought in specially by Linden. 

[kingofsurrey]

1 hour ago, Camel Toe Drag said:

They both mean amateur hockey, or nonprofessional hockey. 

 

A great example of this is the CHL or the NCAA!!

 

Starting to make sense?

No not all all. You still do make sense. 

 

The minors is actually fully  professional   AHL and ECHL.

 

I think i am done discussing with you.  

 

Have a great day . Nice chatting with you. 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Yes Baercheesy and Granny have developed well into potential decent  2nd line players.  At this point they are both still weak second line players.....

 

 The concern for me is that i just don't see first line players on the current canucks roster or anywhere close as prospects.

 

Weak? I think Bear's 27 pts puts him in some decent company. Same with Granny at 25. Markus is only 2 goals behind his bro, and the assists can be attributed to better line mates on Minni. No I think weak isn't fair. 

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, S'all Good Man said:

Well.... maybe but you can have great players that lose top pairing partners because they graduated or went pro and their numbers go down a bit. Boeser might be in that category this year and not quite reach last years phenomenal 60 pts and +45 but by all accounts this kid is a terrific person and should have gone top 10. 

 

I am more concerned with our other prospects,  Juolevi, Demko and Virtanen 

If people would look a bit deeper than a stat line, they'd realize all three are on inferior teams.

 

On top of that, Demko's also adjusting to his first year of pro. Boeser's played injured and was out with injury. Juolevi has actually raised his PPG despite being placed in to a more defensive and leadership role AND sheltering a rookie, again, all on inferior teams than they had to work with before.

 

 

 

[JM_]

Just now, J.R. said:

If people would look a bit deeper than a stat line, they'd realize all three are on inferior teams.

 

On top of that, Demko's also adjusting to his first year of pro. Boeser's played injured and was out with injury. Juolevi has actually raised his PPG despite being placed in to a more defensive and leadership role AND sheltering a rookie, again, all on inferior teams than they had to work with before.

 

I think what you'll hear back is "yah but none of thats in the NHL..." which is true but also not recognizing that JB is building up the talent pool and they're performing well on inferior teams this year like you say. 

 

Did he expect this from OJ, Demko, Boeser? Probably. From Gaudette? Probably not. But he saw something in the kid. There's a lot of development to be excited about.

 

I don't know if its enough to land Aston-Reese with him and Gaudette playing so well together, but who knows? Maybe. It would be a nice signing and be a big boost to the rebuild.

[JM_]

18 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

 

I am more concerned with our other prospects,  Juolevi, Demko and Virtanen 

I'm not. JR's got it right, they are on worse teams and still developing well. 

 

Jake's another story.... he's going to mature or he doesn't, its a simple as that imo. He's got all the physical tools. 

[kingofsurrey]

7 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

If people would look a bit deeper than a stat line, they'd realize all three are on inferior teams.

 

On top of that, Demko's also adjusting to his first year of pro. Boeser's played injured and was out with injury. Juolevi has actually raised his PPG despite being placed in to a more defensive and leadership role AND sheltering a rookie, again, all on inferior teams than they had to work with before.

 

 

 

So you think Demko , Virtanen and Juolevi are all showing improvement this year ?  really ?  

[kingofsurrey]

17 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

Weak? I think Bear's 27 pts puts him in some decent company. Same with Granny at 25. Markus is only 2 goals behind his bro, and the assists can be attributed to better line mates on Minni. No I think weak isn't fair. 

Really

 

Barcheesy is  175 th  in NHL scoring

Granland is  is 197th in NHL scoring.

 

Thinking each team has 3 top forwards...  so  90 in NHL.

Plus 25 D men are in top 150 in scoring...

 

That would put Barcheese  at about  60th    out of  90  second line players.

That would put Granny at around 85th out of 90 second line players...

 

Basically  Not great production. 

 

Are they second line players based on production. Probably yes, but  very average or even below right now at this point.

Will they improve more. I hope so. 

 

You think their production is great right now.... ?  I guess i just expect more out of our players that you do. 

[aGENT]

Just now, S'all Good Man said:

I think what you'll hear back is "yah but none of thats in the NHL..." which is true but also not recognizing that JB is building up the talent pool and they're performing well on inferior teams this year like you say. 

 

Did he expect this from OJ, Demko, Boeser? Probably. From Gaudette? Probably not. But he saw something in the kid. There's a lot of development to be excited about.

 

I don't know if its enough to land Aston-Reese with him and Gaudette playing so well together, but who knows? Maybe. It would be a nice signing and be a big boost to the rebuild.

I'm not even all that concerned about Reese. I mean it would be nice to get him if we do but I'm not going to lose sleep if we don't. It's likely he'll need a year or two in Utica and if we're lucky, top out around where Baer/Granlund already are. Nothing to sneeze at and 'free', good prospects are always welcome additions but it's not like he'd fill some gaping hole or is likely to be one of the top 3 forwards that we need.

 

3 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

So you think Demko , Virtanen and Juolevi are all showing improvement this year ?  really ?  

I never actually mentioned Virtanen.  Thus far he's certainly stumbled out of the gate and has definite issues with maturity, playing/eating/practicing like a pro and playing with pace and attack, consistently, every shift, every game. By all accounts he's improving on those things even if it isn't yet showing up on the score board. The clock's certainly ticking but the alarm is far from going off. He still has plenty of time to become a pro. That's largely up to him. He'll either make it or won't.

 

Juolevi most certainly has shown improvement. This isn't even arguable.

 

Boeser's facing injury and inferior team adversity. Tough to get through but will likely make him better in the long run.

 

Demko is going through what 99% of goalies go through in their first year. An adjustment. And yes, he's improving his ability to play at the pro level by all accounts and on a highly mediocre team no less.

 

[xereau]

5 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

So you think Demko , Virtanen and Juolevi are all showing improvement this year ?  really ?  

OJ is for sure.  I have been watching Knights games when I can, and following their site and highlights.

 

OJ is playing 1st pair shut down role this season.  Not much if any PP.  Tons of PK.  On a bad team.  And he is getting more points than when getting served all the sauce.  This means he is maturing, turning into a leader.  Do not be surprised when he makes the big team next year.

 

Jake is not doing particularly well on scoring.  But he is also not sucking at D.  He was -4 two months ago, and he is currently -6.  He had 6 points two months ago, and now has 10 points.  Jake is clearly learning to play D, which is what will get him back into the NHL.

 

Demko is too early to tell.  One more full season in the AHL should tell us where he is heading. If he doesn't bring his GAA and %sv to 910, then we might have a problem.

 

TLDR:  OJ is a super prospect still.  Jake is better than people think.  Demko is still an unknown.

[JM_]

7 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Really

 

Barcheesy is  175 th  in NHL scoring

Granland is  is 197th in NHL scoring.

 

Thinking each team has 3 top forwards...  so  90 in NHL.

Plus 25 D men are in top 150 in scoring...

 

That would put Barcheese  at about  60th    out of  90  second line players.

That would put Granny at around 85th out of 90 second line players...

 

Basically  Not great production. 

 

Are they second line players based on production. Probably yes, but  very average or even below right now at this point.

Will they improve more. I hope so. 

 

You think their production is great right now.... ?  I guess i just expect more out of our players that you do. 

Yah given the team situation and their individual situations. Both of them got the shaft in CGY re: development and the fact that they are still young guys getting better vs. older and declining.