canuck73_3 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said: You know what doesn't help rebuilding - Having a coach and GM that are not committed to rebuilding and instead want to settle for 20th to 30 th overall every year. Lol, so simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 7 minutes ago, ChuckNORRIS4Cup said: but he's the only one who shows potential maybe. We certainly could use more (and will likely get them in the next 2-4 years) but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckinEdm Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 In 3-4 years we are missing an entire top 6 Minus Horvat. everyone you listed is a bottom of the league top 6 player most of them can be a fill in on a top 6 but are not the centerpiece of a top 2 line. Boeser is a top prospect but so were Cody Hodgson, Zac Kassian, ect. so you hope they can be a top line player for you but you never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 15 minutes ago, CanuckinEdm said: so you hope they can be a top line player for you but you never know. That's kind of how rebuild's work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris12345 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 First Line center First Line winger No 1 Dman One scoring threat (could be any of the above) One power forward who can fight and hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 7 minutes ago, Chris12345 said: First Line center First Line winger No 1 Dman One scoring threat (could be any of the above) One power forward who can fight and hit -Maybe Horvat? (Though I would love if we get a guy even better that pushes Horvat to 2C) Either way, if it's Horvat then we still need a 2C. That's agreed. -Possibly Boeser. -Possibly Juolevi (outside shot at Tryamkin or maybe even Stetcher). -See above. -Possibly Virtanen. Until the players develop and fill those roles (or don't), nothing's etched in stone. But this view that we're 'for sure' missing so much is a bit overblown IMO. And there's still 2-4 more years of drafting, trading college free agents etc to fill holes.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 1 minute ago, J.R. said: -Maybe Horvat? (Though I would love if we get a guy even better that pushes Horvat to 2C) Either way, if it's Horvat then we still need a 2C. That's agreed. -Possibly Boeser. -Possibly Juolevi (outside shot at Tryamkin or maybe even Stetcher). -See above. -Possibly Virtanen. Until the players develop and fill those roles (or don't), nothing's etched in stone. But this view that we're 'for sure' missing so much is a bit overblown IMO. I'd say what we need most is a 1C. Love Horvat, but if we want a future cup we need 2 elite centres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Angelo Russell Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 OP asks "what pieces are we actually missing?" Right now, we're obviously a below avg team. To answer the question i guess it depends where do fans (or more importantly management) expect to see the Canucks in a given timeframe. 5 years from now, are they improving to avg? Cup contenders? Lets just take 1st line center as an example since it looks like its being discussed a lot on here. If expected to remain about the same or maybe improving to avg, I guess Horvat would suffice as 1st line center. But to be cup contenders, honestly, it feels like every below avg team right now has their own "Horvat", or even more. Not to take anything away from Horvat, but the league is just super competitive with so much parity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DADDYROCK Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 In my humble opinion we could use a FIRST OVERALL generational player that we have never had. A CROSBY OR MCDAVID OR GRETZSKY,thats right Edmonton you have been very lucky in this regard. I have watched this team from the beginning, now it seems new teams from the states can just step right in with decent teams,no struggling whatsoever. In 46 years never a first overall pick,where is the justice in that. I know we love this game and Canadians are the best at it but as a Canadian fan I'm starting to loose hope. The Canucks could use some LUCK at this B.S. LOTTERY DRAFT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sxqhfeh Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 13 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said: . Mittelstadt - Reinhart - Boeser Baertschi – Horvat – Lockwood Virtanen – Gaudette – _____ _____ - Gaunce - _____ Juolevi – Stecher Hutton – Gudbranson Brisebois – Tryamkin Demko Gartieg Now fill in those empty spots with players who play well at camp or via trades/free agents and that's not a bad potential lineup if you ask me. What's all your thoughts? Are we really that far? -- --- 13 hours ago, MrCanuck94 said: Simple question, what pieces are we actually missing to complete the rebuild? Are we closer or further than we actually think we are? Canucks current prospect depth Now I made this chart of player potential based on an NHL gaming kind of format. Top line being high chances/green star, middle line being medium chances/yellow star, and last line being low chances/red star. ----------------------------------- Forwards ----------------------------------- Elite - - Boeser - - - Horvat - ----------------------------------- Top 6 - - Baertschi - Gaudette - Lockwood Virtanen - Zhukenov - Rodin ----------------------------------- Bottom 6 - - Granlund - Sutter - - Gaunce - Jasek ----------------------------------- - - - Cassels - Stewart - Zalewski - Grenier ----------------------------------- Defence ----------------------------------- Top Pairing Juolevi - - Stecher - ----------------------------------- Top 4 Hutton - Tryamkin- Brisebois - Gudbranson ----------------------------------- Top 6 - Subban Pedan - Neill Olsen - ----------------------------------- Goalies ----------------------------------- Number 1 Demko Markstrom ----------------------------------- Backup Garteig ----------------------------------- Potential 5 year Lineup _____ - _____ - Boeser Baertschi – Horvat – Lockwood Virtanen – Gaudette – _____ _____ - Gaunce - _____ Juolevi – Stecher Hutton – Gudbranson Brisebois – Tryamkin Demko Gartieg ----------------------------------- Now I'm not saying this is how prospects will exactly turn out and how the line up will look in 5 years, but just starting up a discussion as to where we are and what we can do to get to where we want to be. Personally, the first thing I would do is find a deal for a #1 young Centre around Tanev. For example, Tanev + 2nd + for someone like Reinhart. I don't mind overpaying to get a position of need, since I feel as though the rest of our team is taken care of so we do not need to be too hard on asset management. Next, I'd hope we end up in the top 5 of the draft and draft a top winger, someone such as Casey Mittelstadt maybe. Mittelstadt - Reinhart - Boeser Baertschi – Horvat – Lockwood Virtanen – Gaudette – _____ _____ - Gaunce - _____ Juolevi – Stecher Hutton – Gudbranson Brisebois – Tryamkin Demko Gartieg Now fill in those empty spots with players who play well at camp or via trades/free agents and that's not a bad potential lineup if you ask me. What's all your thoughts? Are we really that far? --- ---- Boeser ---- Horvat Rodin --- Granlund Hansen --- --- ----- Juolevi – Stecher --- Tryamkin --- ---- Demko Markstrom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Toe Drag Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 6 hours ago, Rocksterh8 said: A first line, A second line, Defence and a goalie. Anything else? So by this quote here I'm under the impression that you disregard any current players and prospects that the Canuck's posses as candidates to fill out any of the above positions even though you claim that you can't know how good some of our prospects could be because they haven't played in the AHL or NHL. See how your contradicting yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camel Toe Drag Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 2 hours ago, Rocksterh8 said: I didn't say that, if you read it, I said "probably" which MEANS I'm not sure. If you read slower maybe you will be able to comprehend what you are reading. I dont see a "probably" in the post above ^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hectic Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 6 hours ago, Tre Mac said: This team literally needs a franchise goalie, a top D pairing and atleast 2 lines of forwards. What coach is going to succeed in the NHL with literally 2 AHL lines and 1 AHL d pairing? If Babcock is supposedly the best coach in the NHL how come he finished last with an equally crappy team last year? Coaching is not the problem unless you are on tanknation, then I would say coaching is a problem. The onus falls on management if they're are truly running the show with total autonomy. They are failing to ice a NHL calibre lineup day in and day out. thank you for pointing this out!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyHarry Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 good thing.... Canucks in 5 years will still have Loui E under contract.....what a great signing...YaAAhy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NHTyrany Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 31 minutes ago, DADDYROCK said: In my humble opinion we could use a FIRST OVERALL generational player that we have never had. A CROSBY OR MCDAVID OR GRETZSKY,thats right Edmonton you have been very lucky in this regard. I have watched this team from the beginning, now it seems new teams from the states can just step right in with decent teams,no struggling whatsoever. In 46 years never a first overall pick,where is the justice in that. I know we love this game and Canadians are the best at it but as a Canadian fan I'm starting to loose hope. The Canucks could use some LUCK at this B.S. LOTTERY DRAFT. Luck always helps but what about putting the team in a position to have better odds. Last year was a good year to finish last. Babcock had it bang on. We would not be having this discussion has we finished last last year... The Jets were lucky, Toronto was more about strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyoung Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Sutter is a good blue chip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForsbergTheGreat Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 4 hours ago, J.R. said: 'We need to tear down and get draft picks!' 'All our prospects are garbage and haven't proven a damn thing in the NHL! Any production we get from Virtanen before he's about 22-24 is gravy. People expecting him to be remotely fully developed at 19 or 20 are nuts. Power forwards almost always don't remotely produce major numbers until then. Virtanen has elite skating, an elite shot and good size/physicality. He, like most PWF's, simply needs to learn how to use those things against players who are no longer smaller than him. He has to learn how to work at dominating rather than it simply happening because he's bigger like in junior. I agree with what your say, it’s far too early to judge Virtanen, but I don’t necessarily by the power forward argument. Off the top of my head I can’t really think of any power forwards in the last decade that weren’t performing at a young age. Sure lots of them broke out to become elite 60+ point players around 24/25 ish but most had shown they were at least NHL players prior to that. Bertuzzi 39 points at 20 Simmond 40 points at 21 Lucic 42 points at 20 Hossa 56 points at 21 Perry 44 points at 21 Hartnell 41 points at 19 Benn 41 points at 20 Horton 47 points at 20 Brown 46 points at 22 Ryan 57 points at 21 Okposo 39 points at 20 Frolik 45 points at 20 Lots never really turned out to what they were supposed to be, Bernier, Jessiman, Skille, Pouliot, Kassian, Nichushkin, Grigorenko As I compiled that list and doing some more research I did find a couple Backes didn’t break 31 points till he was 24 when he had a 54 points season Ladd didn’t break 30 points till he was 23 when he had a 49 points season Booth hit 40 points at 23 and then 60 at 24. Brassard hit 36 points at 22 and 47 at 23. Foligno didn’t break 40 mark at 24 when he put up 47 points I guess the point I’m trying to make is that, it is far too early to write the book and Jake not because he’s a power forward but because player development is different among all players not just with regards to position. I think canucks have handled his development poorly and it might set us back a year or two but he’s far from being labelled, had we handled it differently he might have been in the NHL putting up 40 points before his 22nd birthday, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocksterh8 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 51 minutes ago, Camel Toe Drag said: I dont see a "probably" in the post above ^^^ because thats not the post where I said it, go back to the original first reply post - here is a copy of it just for you. You see the word "probably" there now? Horvat, Boeser and Eriksson are probably career 2nd liners.... Juolevi & Demco have proven nothing in the nhl yet so you better wake up and smell the coffee tulipface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 4 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: I agree with what your say, it’s far too early to judge Virtanen, but I don’t necessarily by the power forward argument. Off the top of my head I can’t really think of any power forwards in the last decade that weren’t performing at a young age. Sure lots of them broke out to become elite 60+ point players around 24/25 ish but most had shown they were at least NHL players prior to that. Bertuzzi 39 points at 20 Simmond 40 points at 21 Lucic 42 points at 20 Hossa 56 points at 21 Perry 44 points at 21 Hartnell 41 points at 19 Benn 41 points at 20 Horton 47 points at 20 Brown 46 points at 22 Ryan 57 points at 21 Okposo 39 points at 20 Frolik 45 points at 20 Lots never really turned out to what they were supposed to be, Bernier, Jessiman, Skille, Pouliot, Kassian, Nichushkin, Grigorenko As I compiled that list and doing some more research I did find a couple Backes didn’t break 31 points till he was 24 when he had a 54 points season Ladd didn’t break 30 points till he was 23 when he had a 49 points season Booth hit 40 points at 23 and then 60 at 24. Brassard hit 36 points at 22 and 47 at 23. Foligno didn’t break 40 mark at 24 when he put up 47 points Precisely. That's why I said anything he does before 22-24 is gravy. Some guys produce decently from around 20-24 and then make a jump. Other guys struggle to produce until around 24 and then make a jump. Point is, around 23/24, this type of player largely makes a jump. (If they're going to reach their projections anyway. As you note, some guys go Skille/Bernier/Pyatt etc on you.) A lot of the struggling vs 'decent' in that time frame likely boils down to some mix of individual player, coaching, development, quality of team, role on team etc, etc but the key point is that most PWF's don't normally develop in to their game until closer to 24 regardless. Virtanen is 20. Virtanen has elite skating, an elite shot and a large, intimidating body. The tools are there and he's got 2-4 years to make that jump. Doan's another one FYI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 4 hours ago, canuck73_3 said: Lol, so simple. Yup - should be pretty simple to find a few coachs with NHL experience.... interview them. choose one. Instead our club finds a career minor league coach and hires him.... Yup your right it should have been simple... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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