189lb enforcers? Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 46 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said: Yeah I'm sure Edmonton would rather have Kassian than McDavid or Lucic. Oddly enough, we have Virtanen, Boeser, and Juolevi in the wings. What we really need is 12 Bo Horvat's. Why did you say that about Edmonton? Virtanen is not anywhere near Kassian toughness or intimidation. He isn't even as skilled. We hope he turns it around. What are the odds that all three of these players pan out? Probably 2/3? Even Demko is showing signs of being a very average goalie, of the future. This roster will will quickly rise to occupy the middle-standings and then slowly trend back down like a Winnipeg or Carolina because of how it's constructed. As the NTC vets disappear as assets and their gaps leave their mark, the draft's supplemental pieces will not be enough to float this roster and it will slowly sink back down into oblivion, where a new GM will rebuild with less to work with. Kind of like a Colorado is today. JB waited too long to retool and now the "refool" will completely rely on hitting home runs at the draft. Perhaps the finding and signing of guys like Troy and Tree have folks optimistic, but what are the odds of that happening again? The stars have to align for the roster to be anything less than a long term dud. This year's TDL and draft will be pivitol in carving out an identity and setting a direction that doesn't primarily centre around gentlemanly conduct. What this team needs is more skill, but not at the expense of character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 19 minutes ago, alfstonker said: What young players? Stop talking media spouted dross. The young players in the team ARE developing or do you not watch the games? Willie D, himself, said that the NHL is not a developmental league. We need a coach (could be Willie) who has a mandate from upper management and the owner to develop our young core, without worrying about his job, and the (insanity) of making the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 If Ericksson finds his game? We need that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conscience Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 But seriously we need a lot. demko may or may not become a top goaltender hopefully one of our young d develops into a number 2, still missing that number 1 that elite teams have we need another top center baerchi and boeser look like our only 2 real top 6 wingers. hopefully we have some prospects to give us the needed depth on 3rd and 4th lines We are still missing some HUGE pieces before we are an elite team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 On 2016-12-07 at 7:07 AM, Tre Mac said: This team literally needs a franchise goalie, a top D pairing and atleast 2 lines of forwards. What coach is going to succeed in the NHL with literally 2 AHL lines and 1 AHL d pairing? If Babcock is supposedly the best coach in the NHL how come he finished last with an equally crappy team last year? Coaching is not the problem unless you are on tanknation, then I would say coaching is a problem. The onus falls on management if they're are truly running the show with total autonomy. They are failing to ice a NHL calibre lineup day in and day out. At least management hasn't been trading draft picks and prospects for this questionable lineup. Oh wait.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuardian_ Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: Why did you say that about Edmonton? Virtanen is not anywhere near Kassian toughness or intimidation. He isn't even as skilled. We hope he turns it around. What are the odds that all three of these players pan out? Probably 2/3? Even Demko is showing signs of being a very average goalie, of the future. This roster will will quickly rise to occupy the middle-standings and then slowly trend back down like a Winnipeg or Carolina because of how it's constructed. As the NTC vets disappear as assets and their gaps leave their mark, the draft's supplemental pieces will not be enough to float this roster and it will slowly sink back down into oblivion, where a new GM will rebuild with less to work with. Kind of like a Colorado is today. JB waited too long to retool and now the "refool" will completely rely on hitting home runs at the draft. Perhaps the finding and signing of guys like Troy and Tree have folks optimistic, but what are the odds of that happening again? The stars have to align for the roster to be anything less than a long term dud. This year's TDL and draft will be pivitol in carving out an identity and setting a direction that doesn't primarily centre around gentlemanly conduct. What this team needs is more skill, but not at the expense of character. After Benning is canned this team will be hampered by those NT contracts he has signed. Eriksson's alone will guarantee a roster spot wasted as well as the cap hit. This team average skill level is so low now that any one of the prospects named should be embarrassed if they can't make this AHL talent level group. Benning etal are late and have waited too long to do anything. It is like they get an idea in summer and can't adjust to changes, just one idea at a time. This team needs 5 top 9 forwards of which 3 should be players that would be top line players on other teams, I wouldn't use Pittsburgh aa an example, their 3rd line players are better than the Nucks #1 or 2 line players. To grant unproven prospects the title of "saviours" almost surely dooms them to failure, each year the pressure on expectations puts them more likely to fail. Can you say Edmonton Oilers? Really, look at their structure and results over the last 8 years and then look at the Nucks over the Linden/Benning regime. Almost the same position by position in management and on the ice. This can be changed but the pain will be intense, not just tanking, but some pretty damn good prospects will need to be cashed in for more and higher picks. It is no longer a rebuild, it will need to be a blow up. Management down, it doesn't take 2 years to evaluate a team or players, not today, so much video and media everywhere. High level tournaments young players are exposed to. 15-25 years ago there were hardly any junior players interviewed on national TV, now the kids are trained to do interviews. Forget the 2017 draft, this group now has to aim for the 2018 and 2019 draft years to hopefully get a shot at A franchise player. There are more than enough AHLer's that can do what this team does to achieve the same results. Young players? Wasn't the idea of getting the 20 to 25 year olds to eliminate the "young" players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 19 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said: Forget the 2017 draft, this group now has to aim for the 2018 and 2019 draft years to hopefully get a shot at A franchise player. There are more than enough AHLer's that can do what this team does to achieve the same results. This is truely the case, in context of long term growth and projection. Short term pain, long term gain. The pain will be there regardless, it might as well be on purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 On 2016-12-11 at 3:38 PM, VC420 said: Our defense could be one of the best for a decade. Joulevi, Stetcher, Tryamkin, Gudbranson Hutton - All theses players are 24 or younger, that is 5 of your 6 defensman for the next decade. We still need help upfront though, Boeser is the only player I see with legitimate 1st line potential. Wow I think you overrate our defense. Combined 568 games played, they've scored 21 goals. Canucks are also 21st in goals against, despite good goaltending. Hopefully a couple of these guys end up as really good D, but they're not there yet and not all of them are going to develop how we want them to. I can't believe how many people have penciled Stetcher in as an elite defenseman. He's not Werenski. I think a more realistic projection for him would be what people wanted Larsen to be, good offensively (especially on PP) and ok defensively. Right now he's 5th in rookie D scoring, but dead last in +/- As for Boeser having 1st line potential, and Horvat not.. I think Horvat is already there. He can't carry a 1st line, but wouldn't be out of place with better linemates on a 1st line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Still need the same pieces we needed 3 months ago. We need to trade a D (+) this summer for young, top 6 forward. We need to find another top 6 C who can play in around 2 years and then we need to find another top 6 winger that can be ready in 3-4 years. All while continuing to draft/trade etc for quality players to develop and keep pushing from below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 55 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said: After Benning is canned this team will be hampered by those NT contracts he has signed. Eriksson's alone will guarantee a roster spot wasted as well as the cap hit. This team average skill level is so low now that any one of the prospects named should be embarrassed if they can't make this AHL talent level group. Benning etal are late and have waited too long to do anything. It is like they get an idea in summer and can't adjust to changes, just one idea at a time. This team needs 5 top 9 forwards of which 3 should be players that would be top line players on other teams, I wouldn't use Pittsburgh aa an example, their 3rd line players are better than the Nucks #1 or 2 line players. To grant unproven prospects the title of "saviours" almost surely dooms them to failure, each year the pressure on expectations puts them more likely to fail. Can you say Edmonton Oilers? Really, look at their structure and results over the last 8 years and then look at the Nucks over the Linden/Benning regime. Almost the same position by position in management and on the ice. This can be changed but the pain will be intense, not just tanking, but some pretty damn good prospects will need to be cashed in for more and higher picks. It is no longer a rebuild, it will need to be a blow up. Management down, it doesn't take 2 years to evaluate a team or players, not today, so much video and media everywhere. High level tournaments young players are exposed to. 15-25 years ago there were hardly any junior players interviewed on national TV, now the kids are trained to do interviews. Forget the 2017 draft, this group now has to aim for the 2018 and 2019 draft years to hopefully get a shot at A franchise player. There are more than enough AHLer's that can do what this team does to achieve the same results. Young players? Wasn't the idea of getting the 20 to 25 year olds to eliminate the "young" players? Can't say I disagree. I feel for Bo, who is obviously a developing into a very good player. His talents will be wasted here, because the team around him will be very poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salacious Crumb Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 16 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said: Wow I think you overrate our defense. Combined 568 games played, they've scored 21 goals. Canucks are also 21st in goals against, despite good goaltending. Hopefully a couple of these guys end up as really good D, but they're not there yet and not all of them are going to develop how we want them to. I can't believe how many people have penciled Stetcher in as an elite defenseman. He's not Werenski. I think a more realistic projection for him would be what people wanted Larsen to be, good offensively (especially on PP) and ok defensively. Right now he's 5th in rookie D scoring, but dead last in +/- As for Boeser having 1st line potential, and Horvat not.. I think Horvat is already there. He can't carry a 1st line, but wouldn't be out of place with better linemates on a 1st line. True dat. Stecher and Tryamkin are both likely to go through the dreaded sophomore slump next season just like Hutton has this one. All three of those guys could be hit or miss pros. Sbisa, EdIer and Gudbranson provide stability and leadership. Juolevi provides promise. I'm as excited as any fan about the potential our defence shows but projection doesn't always end up being reality. Having said that anyone that remembers Kesler or Burrows 1st season knows that some guys can score a lot more in their prime than they showed as rookies. Bo seems to have a quiet intensity (Toews like perhaps) and desire to get better so 30 goals may not be his ceiling. It looks like we are a lottery pick this year and next (for the record I had 95 points in the prediction thread - must have been drunk) so perhaps that is part of where we find some forward help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alfstonker Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Alflives said: Willie D, himself, said that the NHL is not a developmental league. We need a coach (could be Willie) who has a mandate from upper management and the owner to develop our young core, without worrying about his job, and the (insanity) of making the playoffs. What he meant is players who are not equipped and ready can't be given the coaching time to make them ready. Every coach would say the same and I know of no team where that type of player is playing do you? No coach in the league is ultimately safe because no coach that I know of is in the position you describe. Maybe you can give an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 32 minutes ago, alfstonker said: What he meant is players who are not equipped and ready can't be given the coaching time to make them ready. Every coach would say the same and I know of no team where that type of player is playing do you? No coach in the league is ultimately safe because no coach that I know of is in the position you describe. Maybe you can give an example. Babcock in TO said publicly (more than once) there will be pain during the rebuilding process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xereau Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 We are missing a true #1 all situations offensive D man. We are missing a true #1 all situations offensive winger. We are missing a coach that has had real success in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucklehead80 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 2 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said: Even Demko is showing signs of being a very average goalie, of the future. Gonna be an adjustment going from college to pro. Not worried at all. It's more about how he progresses over the course of this season and next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 If you are an all situations player call you still be called an offensive player, or would you be called a 200 foot player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoCanuck Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Better Drafting and #1 a proper Development plan for Young players in General..... Canack management has destroyed to many players confidences through YO-YOing/indecisions. Our draft record vs players that make this team vs ones who prosper elsewhere proves this beyond doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 9 minutes ago, AlamoCanuck said: Better Drafting and #1 a proper Development plan for Young players in General..... Canack management has destroyed to many players confidences through YO-YOing/indecisions. Our draft record vs players that make this team vs ones who prosper elsewhere proves this beyond doubt. To be fair, THIS management group hasn't had much opportunity to succeed or screw up in that department. Yet. Most of the guys we hope to develop are still playing in Junior, college etc. Otherwise, Horvat, Granlund, Baer, Hutton, Tryamkin, Stetcher, Gaunce, Subban, Demko etc all seem to be developing well enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 A young franchise fwd should be top priority. Someone to take the load with BO from the Sedins either a elite 2C or a bona-fide 1st line winger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Right now our prospect pool is kinda depressing Virtanen, Boeser, , Juolevi and Demko are all trending flat or more honestly down this season......... This is not a good thing for a rebuilding club needing Elite prospects.... Flame away at me....... I don't care. But this should even more make us Sellers at the trade Deadline..... We need more elite prospects.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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