Discussion - Should the Canucks explore trading the Sedins to Montreal

[darnucks]

No.

Short answer to an old and stupid question. Sorry OP, no offense.

[smokes]

Let's trade the Sedins, great idea and make Horvat, Baertschi and Burrows the number one line. As if the Canucks don't have enough problems scoring already.

[Pears]

40 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

So 2 of Montreals top prospects (and former 1st round picks) plus 2 more first round picks for a couple 36 year old players who are clearly on the downside of their careers? 

*For two very good players who are still very steady top six/first line forwards who would unquestionably make Montreal the best team in the East this year. 

[Harvey Spector]

1 hour ago, qwijibo said:

And you don't think they'd like to re-sign Radulov? He's been nothing short of fantastic and has great chemistry with Galchenyuk. Plus the Sedins would have to be protected in the expansion draft. Not to mention the Sedins seem to be very hit and miss with regards to who they're able to play effectively with. Just look at Eriksson. He was brought him because of the "chemistry" they had on the world stage and that hasn't worked out st all. 

 

Yes I'm sure they'd like to keep Radulov. But he would be a UFA so he might get a lot of offers from other teams.  Also my line of thinking was more towards Montreal making this trade for this year specifically to take a shot at the cup this year. With Radulov being a UFA there is no guarantee he is going to stick around regardless of whether they make the Sedin trade or not. 

 

But it's all a moot point anyways because unless the Sedins specifically ask for a trade Benning would never consider trading them and can't regardless because of their no movement clauses. 

[dank.sinatra]

Sedins - not gonna happen. 

 

Burrows at the deadline - maybe. 

[canucklehead80]

6 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Retaining salary is just to buy some picks.

 

Retaining salary would be to make "any" deal happen, not just to buy picks.

[PhillipBlunt]

I'd trade them straight across for Shea Weber. No picks, just a straight up hockey trade. 

 

Kane - Horvat - Virtanen

Baertschi - Sutter - Eriksson

Burrows - Granlund - Skille

Labate - Gaunce - Megna

 

Weber - Edler

Tanev - Stecher

Gudbranson - Tryamkin

Hutton

 

Markstrom

Miller. 

 

Yeah. The Sedins to Montreal sounds good. 

 

 

[Baggins]

9 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

 

By hanging on to Hank and Danny we are about to lose them both as UFA's with nothing coming back our way.....

 

This would be a HUGE mistake.

 

If Hank or Danny are willing to move for a  CUP..   This year is the time .  Mid season or TDL is ideal. 

Canucks should offer to retain partial salary.  Get picks and prospects.

 

JB  - do your job please. 

 

Benning - They won't be asked to waive their nmc as long as I'm GM.

 

Sedins - We want to retire Canucks.

 

How many times do those statements need to be made from them for it to sink in?

[coolboarder]

If I'm entertaining at the thought of trading Sedin, it will never happen.  The management said so.  However, just to entertain my thoughts on this subject, for a team that acquire the set of twins, that team already have their first line and the twin would easily slide into the 2nd line role and still play like the first liner with 2nd pairing of D facing them and instant becomes a cup contender to any team that acquire them.    Just for that reason alone, I would demand a hefty price for them, two prospects, 1 roster player or dump cap back, 2 first round picks on next 5 years on Canucks' choice of years depending on where they end up on a certain year.   It must be declared by June 1st if the Canucks is to keep the pick or forgo another year for next 5 years.   2 2nd round picks on next 5 years, on other teams' choice and must declare which year they would pass their pick to us by June 2nd.    With a condition added to the trade is if they win the cup this year or next year after only winning the cup would cost them another 2 1st round pick in next 10 years of their choice.  If they win the cup next season, it will cost them only 1 first round pick of their choice in next 3 years after 5 years of Canucks' control.  If they win the cup in back to back years, the Canucks shall get two extra first round picks in next 15 years in Canucks' control after 10 years.   50% salary retention for the pair. (7 million cap hit for other team which is doable).  If they choose to trade the Sedin in next 2 years, the 50% retention will no longer be on the books for the Canucks and they are free to negotiate a retention cap hit with their trading partner.  In event of a team folding, the Canucks shall get the first priority in dispersal draft.  For each agreed pick that did not go the Canucks way in next 15 years get its first priority.  For example, if they win back to back cup win, they are entitled to 6 first round picks in next 15 years and let's say, 8 years later, the team folds and they are owed 3 picks, they get the first 3 picks in a dispersal draft picks as an example.  

 

To recap: for Daniel and Henrik Sedin, 2 grade A prospects, 1 roster player and 2 1st, 2 2nd, and 4 conditional 1st.and 50% salary retention.  To clarify even further, the Canucks get a 2 first round pick from 2017-2022 with Canucks' control and if they win the cup, 2 more first round picks to Canucks on other teams' control from 2023-2027. 2 more first round at Canucks' control from 2028-2033.  2 2nd round picks at other team's control from 2017-2022.  It must be its own team's picks, not traded for picks.   If a team traded away their first is automatic defers to next year and the deadline is automatic to Canucks if they choose to trade away their first round in next first 3 years to Canucks for consecutive years.   The same shall be for 2023-2027 and 2028-2033 period.

 

I think that trade value is fair because the Canucks will get almost nothing with cap dump in return but gamble on the draft picks while giving other team the best chance to retain their full roster for a chance of winning the cup in next two years.  Any team that acquire Sedin is almost guaranteed to win the cup with their Sedinery alone with already established first line and their defence pairing set up.    You can always get creative for the package for the Sedin twin as an example above.   Any team that has a great first line but average second line and get the both Sedin shall be instant cup contender no matter how you slice it.   A pair of twin should not be only 1 draft pick, it has to be one pick for each player with some conditional trade agreement added to it as one for each Sedin it should cost them.  This is the only trade is acceptable to me, but other than that, the Sedin should stay until the contract expires or they decide to hang up their skates.

 

If the Sedin is traded next season deadlines, the above applies (2 1st and 2 2nd) but not 4 conditional pick, just 2 conditional first round pick with 2 grade A prospect and one or two cap hits return on contract must expires at the end of the season, not two years left from that point.   So that's the way to go for me. 

 

One final thought, once the lottery day arrives, the trade for first round pick is frozen until the Canucks declared their intention during years of Canucks' control in either, 2017-2022 or 2027-2032

[Nuxfanabroad]

We should put all this on hold 'til a yr later.

[EmilyM]

You're the GM on Montreal.
You have ~2 mil in cap space.
Do you really go after the Sedins for this year and next? Two guys who are not your typical playoff type performers? Do you really add two players that need to be protected?

Please please please, somebody honestly tell me if you were the GM of a team going for the cup, you are going after the Sedins.

Nobody is trading "prospects and picks" for vets this season.

[Baggins]

10 hours ago, Bur14Kes17 said:

I know I'll probably get a few minuses for this but I'm just recognizing the opportunity and putting it out there for discussion. 

 

With both Alex Galchenyuk and David Desharnai out for 6-8 weeks, if there was ever a time for Linden, Benning, and the Canucks to commit to a rebuild, the time would be right now. Sending the Sedins to Montreal would also give them a real chance to win a cup now. Question is, should they pursue this and what would we want in return?

 

I would offer the needed salary retention, and ask for this years 1st and 2nd round pick and Nikita Scherback. As well as David Desharnais to fill our center gap with Hank gone and to free up more salary for the Habs.

 

Even completely ignoring Benning's and the Sedins comments on the subject, Montreal only has 1.9m cap space. Even retaining the maximum allowed they need 7m cap space for both Sedins.

 

I would want more than a 1st and a 2nd for both Sedins and more still to retain 7m salary. Imo the 1st and 2nd covers the salary retention. Now pay up for the Sedins.

[Gnarcore]

If they want to move on let's trade them. I'd want a first second and later pick plus prospect and Gallagher.  

 

 

If they don't want to move we honorary that... They deserve that 

[alfstonker]

When are people going to realise that no one will take BOTH Sedins, even with Canucks eating cap. 

 

They are 36 years old and for players who were never that quick to begin with that is old. Teams are trying to get faster not slower and teams are trying to be more physical not less physical.

 

We have had the best out of the Twins and to our discredit we could not make it work when it came to winning a Cup, all be it we came close and were in the end too injured to get over the line.

 

Whether some of us like it or not we are committed to seeing their careers into retirement with us.  We don't owe it to them because no players are bigger than the Club but we are so far down the road now it makes very little difference to the rebuild, if they stay till the end of their contract.

 

Having said that I would not be for renewing after that because the sooner the better we realise that the game has moved on and the type of team WE SHOULD be building has no place for them on any line imo. We must start getting this speed with skill and physicality into the forwards of this team without further delay.

 

So in summing up I think the OP is fantasising if he thinks a speedy team like the Habs are ever going to consider giving up their future for TWO 36 year old players whose game must be accommodated within a game to make it work. I know what I would think if I was a Habs fan.

[alfstonker]

2 hours ago, Baggins said:

 

Benning - They won't be asked to waive their nmc as long as I'm GM.

 

Sedins - We want to retire Canucks.

 

How many times do those statements need to be made from them for it to sink in?

 

This is what frightens me if it means we offer them another contract.

 

This "TWINS thing" was great when they were in their prime and ok even up to 3 or 4 years ago but now it means we offer everything in duplicate and get back everything in duplicate.

 

What that means to me, is we commit to TWO slow players and TWO non physical players. Yes they are highly skilled but they are making more and more mistakes, they are still expecting (and being given) big minutes (which means they influence our tempo far too much especially on the PP)  they put a lot of pressure on their line mate to cover for their lack of speed and they are still less than ideal in our Dzone -  we are getting all that in DUPLICATE. 

 

If they were two different players I might say ok we will take a chance on one of them at $4/5 of another 2 years but we may end up spending $8-10 for two years because they are twins and the detrimental effect is increasing by the year imo.

 

I say all that as someone who has been a big fan of the Sedins for years and personally I think the day the music died for me was when Kesler, Sami, and Lu left. The Sedins started to fade for me around then. It is time the Club, the management and the fans moved on so I would be less than happy if we offered them another contract.

[mll]

5 hours ago, Pears said:

*For two very good players who are still very steady top six/first line forwards who would unquestionably make Montreal the best team in the East this year. 

 

Who do not have the footspeed to play the Therrien system.  Montreal is pretty much dump&chase - they rely on the footspeed of their Fs to get to the puck first.  That does not spell Sedins. 

[spook007]

13 hours ago, smokes said:

How many times does management need to tell people that they are not trading the Sedins before people get it? It's like they don't understand the English language.

Are you sure... looking through all the treads and posts, I have my doubts... 

[J-Dizzle]

According to Botchford there are at least two teams interested in the Sedins' at full price.

 

I don't know how to embed and I'm somewhat ashamed I even read this article...

 

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/rumor-roundup-canucks-veterans-shaping-up-to-be-trade-deadline-targets

 

 

For the record, I'll reiterate what many others have said, I don't see them going anywhere.  

 

 

 

Edit:  I'll copy paste so you don't have to give THN a hit :D

 

At least two teams are reportedly interested in acquiring the Sedins for their full cap hit and Canucks veterans could draw interest at the trade deadline. The Kings are looking to clear cap space by moving out Teddy Purcell.

The ongoing struggles of the Vancouver Canucks this season generated some speculation over possible roster moves.

In early November, it was reported GM Jim Benning was in the market for a 20-goal winger. At one point, the Canucks were linked to Buffalo Sabres left wing Evander Kane, but Benning reportedly ended that inquiry.  

By late-November, The Province's Jason Botchford suggested the Canucks could get an early start on deciding which players to move by the March 1 trade deadline. He felt veterans such as Ryan Miller, Alex Edler, Alexandre Burrows and perhaps even Daniel and Henrik Sedin could be on the move.

Unless those players want out of Vancouver, however, that's not going to happen. All carry some form of a no-trade clause in their respective contracts. Benning tells Botchford he won't move them unless they ask to be dealt. 

Botchford said he knows of two teams that would be willing to acquire the Sedins for their full combined salary-cap hit of $14 million. If the Canucks were to pick up part of that cap hit (which runs through 2017-18), he thinks more clubs would be interested. 

The sticking point, of course, is the Sedins' willingness to be traded. So far, they've given no indication that they want out of Vancouver. As Botchford points out, such a move would likely have to take place in the off-season. 

Even if the Canucks put the Sedins on the block, they're unlikely to fetch a significant return. While they're still putting up solid numbers (17 points in 26 games), the 36-year-old twins are well past their prime. Teams aren't going to give up a lot for a couple of fading stars. Picks and prospects, sure, but nothing that would immediately reverse the Canucks' fortunes. 

As for Miller, he and Canucks management could be willing to work out a contract extension. Botchford's collegue Ben Kuzma doubts the Canucks place the 36-year-old goalie on the block by the trade deadline. 

Kuzma notes Miller's stats aren't great this season. However, he feels he'll still be a good fit with Jacob Markstrom, buying some time until promising goalie prospect Thatcher Demko is ready to move up. He wonders if Miller might be agreeable to a two- or three-year deal worth between $4-$4.5 million per season. That's a significant pay cut from Miller's current $6-million annual salary. 

Considering Miller's no longer an elite goaltender, he probably won't get much better than that on the open market. He could test next summer's free-agent market, but will likely find few decent offers. He could prefer to avoid uncertainty over his future by staying in Vancouver for a reasonable contract. 

[coastal1]

20 hours ago, Bur14Kes17 said:

I know I'll probably get a few minuses for this but I'm just recognizing the opportunity and putting it out there for discussion. 

 

With both Alex Galchenyuk and David Desharnai out for 6-8 weeks, if there was ever a time for Linden, Benning, and the Canucks to commit to a rebuild, the time would be right now. Sending the Sedins to Montreal would also give them a real chance to win a cup now. Question is, should they pursue this and what would we want in return?

 

I would offer the needed salary retention, and ask for this years 1st and 2nd round pick and Nikita Scherback. As well as David Desharnais to fill our center gap with Hank gone and to free up more salary for the Habs.

People seem to fail to appreciate the sarcasm. "if there was ever a time for Linden, Benning, and the Canucks to commit to a rebuild" Point well made! Linden and company have commited to the rebuild since day 1 and now in their third season here, there is only 5 or 6 players left from the team they took over. The defence is pretty much totally rebuilt. The offence is shaping up. The goaltending future is on his way. Yes, you made your point, those that are asking for a rebuild are blind to what is happening and where this team is at now and using the Sedins to drive that point makes it more powerful!

[189lb enforcers?]

I would not want or expect a lot for the twins.

Just want to start over.