Why we shouldnt tank...this year

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, bohoforpresident said:

Tanking...

 

Mgmt will either do a TEARDOWN where losing is a result of trading an old core to build a new one....or RETOOL where you couple an old core with the pieces of the next core, and in the transition, your team is going to "win some and lose some" lol.

 

The canucks, or any team for that matter, aren't going to ACTIVELY try to lose games.. these guys are professional athletes who have COMPETED all their lives to get to the nhl.

 

It was just said the Canucks would NOT be trading any players with NTC of NMC so get your idea of a 'tank' out of your heads. It's not happening. Not for Nolan Patrick this year not for Auston Matthews last year.

 

That being said I wouldn't be surprised if one of our NTC/NMC players asked to go to a contender this year. I hope that's enough 'tank' for you.

Don't you think it's rather arrogant of JB to feel his drafting is so much better than all the other GM's in a rebuilding phase, that he can "fill the cupboards" with elite prospects by having far fewer picks? 

[nux_win]

11 minutes ago, Run n Gun said:

Edmonton sucking for so long has everything to do with an inept management group who were in denial about the team they had...

 

Which very much resembles what the current Canucks management group has shown in the last couple years... they refuse to believe that they have a bad team and are in constant denial about what type of team they are icing.

 

So, yes, if the Canucks keep getting high draft picks with this current management group, I agree with you... it won't matter a lick... they will have to make smart moves to bolster the line up..

Signing Sbisa and Dorsett to ridiculous contracts are just a few of the moves that make you scratch your head in confusion.... Sbisa, somebody who couldn't crack an NHL line up previously... this management group decided to pay him top dollar for. It's moves like this that remind me time and time again why Benning will not be the one to get the job done.

I don't get all the hate on Sbisa, or the contract.  I think in hindsight it will work out reasonably well (if it hasn't already - have you seen the price of NHL D these days?).  We'll see, but Sbisa is way better than what all the haters say, and he's still getting better.  He makes mistakes sometimes, sure, but show me a developing defenceman who doesn't.  His enthusiasm and physicality are much needed, and I think that he can get better at the giveaways, if he hasn't already.  Furthermore, at the time, Benning didn't have the luxury to skimp on D (at the time he made that deal he couldn't have forseen the unexpected blossoming of Hutton or Stetcher, nor the drafting of Juolevi, and I don't think that Tryamkin could be counted on then either).  And now, even with our added depth on D, he is still worth a lot considering all the injuries (there are always injuries on D and having a large cast of NHL ready defencemen is always a good idea).  I don't think that this management group, or Sbisa for that matter, are nearly as bad as you or the media are suggesting.  GCG! 

[bohoforpresident]

15 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Don't you think it's rather arrogant of JB to feel his drafting is so much better than all the other GM's in a rebuilding phase, that he can "fill the cupboards" with elite prospects by having far fewer picks? 

I think they're trying to strengthen their culture by honoring the contracts they gave to guys who have played their whole careers for the Canucks. How does it look to Horvat, Hutton and Stetch?...These new guys who lay it all on the line for their team....When the players that they look up to in the room are asked to leave. Is that a contract you want to sign and a team you want to play for? It is a business but it is a team too. Yes there are players I would like to see turn into picks aswell.

[bohoforpresident]

That's the kind of player I would want in Vancouver anyway, someone who is dedicated to winning here. Just be careful with those contracts lol. I don't think Benning thinks he's better than other GMs (at least not an ignorant level) and if he does then maybe he is as bad as everyone says because we have all seen the nhl redrafts....There's almost always a better pick than the one you made. 

[Zhukini]

18 hours ago, The Game said:

 

Oh, you mean the year after we won the Presidents Trophy? It's like telling the Capitals to tank this year, doesn't make a lot of sense. 

Because the Caps got swept in the first round last year with a core on the severe decline?

[oldnews]

On 2016-12-07 at 4:30 PM, Alflives said:

Hate to break it to you, but WE ARE TANKING.  Sure, it's not on purpose, but we are 28th out of 30.  

yeah but we're 3pts out with 3 games in hand Alfy.

And we might get Honey Badger back soon, so fasten yer seatbelts.

[Baggins]

11 hours ago, Alflives said:

Don't you think it's rather arrogant of JB to feel his drafting is so much better than all the other GM's in a rebuilding phase, that he can "fill the cupboards" with elite prospects by having far fewer picks? 

 

Does anybody have a full cupboard of "elite" prospects?

[Baggins]

11 hours ago, Run n Gun said:

Edmonton sucking for so long has everything to do with an inept management group who were in denial about the team they had...

 

That's a fair comment. In the past 10 years they've had four 1st overall picks, two top 5 picks, 3 top 10 picks and 2 more 1st rounders. They should be far further along than they are. But it goes to show that high picks don't save you without support pieces in place

 

11 hours ago, Run n Gun said:

Which very much resembles what the current Canucks management group has shown in the last couple years... they refuse to believe that they have a bad team and are in constant denial about what type of team they are icing.

 

 

I don't see the resemblance at all. We haven't both sucked and failed at rebuilding. Of course it's only been three summers and there was nothing to rebuild with from the start. If we're bottom five in two years you may be able to start a comparison with Edmonton. But both Pittsburgh and Chicago took seven years to rebuild.  You may want to be a little more patient.

 

11 hours ago, Run n Gun said:

So, yes, if the Canucks keep getting high draft picks with this current management group, I agree with you... it won't matter a lick... they will have to make smart moves to bolster the line up..

 

That's what they are doing now. Both Chicago and Pittsburgh had 5 years of drafting before getting their two superstars in years 6 and 7. This actually gave previous years picks time to develop into NHL players for when the superstars arrived. As opposed to Edmonton with a multitude of high picks with nothing to support them.

 

11 hours ago, Run n Gun said:

Signing Sbisa and Dorsett to ridiculous contracts are just a few of the moves that make you scratch your head in confusion.... Sbisa, somebody who couldn't crack an NHL line up previously... this management group decided to pay him top dollar for. It's moves like this that remind me time and time again why Benning will not be the one to get the job done.

 

You sound like those two were signed to carry this team into the future. They weren't. Sbisa was 24 years old and still developing. His contract was decent for his age and experience (over 200 NHL games). Had we offered what some fans thought was fair he would have had to go to free agency and could sign anywhere. Had Benning offered the same money he had been earning it would have been a one year deal not three. Sbsisa nor his agent are stupid. So he got a three year progressive deal. Meaning making more in the last year than the first. The idea being as a young player he improves each year, which he has. It's actually a good gamble on Bennings part because it's the type of deal that could see Sbisa's cap hit high in the first year but look like a steal in the final year.

 

I have no idea why so many are upset about Dorsett. He's a guy that will stand up for team mates against anybody, is actually a decent skater (and player) that can also PK as opposed to the useless knuckle dragger. He gives 110%, and can help young guys with what it take. he filled a toughness spot that was sorely lacking on this team. His deal, and Sbisa's are really bridge deals that fill the huge gap left by Gillis. We had zero NHL ready prospects in Utica. Zip, zero, nada. That hole needed to be filled to bridge the gap from aging veterans to a new core yet to come. It's also why Benning made deals for NHL ready guys like Vey, Baer, and Granny. All these deals buy time to develop Benning picks instead of just tossing everybody in the deep end.

 

As far as cap goes, we're not close to contending so it just doesn't matter. Dorsett will beoff the books long before then.

 

[KoreanHockeyFan]

On 07/12/2016 at 4:30 PM, Alflives said:

Hate to break it to you, but WE ARE TANKING.  Sure, it's not on purpose, but we are 28th out of 30.  

 

Why do people think we're "already tanking?" 

 

Has anyone taken a look at how competitive the NHL is this year? The standings are as close as they get - from 28th and up, every team is separated by 1 point at the most...28/30 means a lot better than it sounds.

[Boudrias]

2 hours ago, Baggins said:

 

That's a fair comment. In the past 10 years they've had four 1st overall picks, two top 5 picks, 3 top 10 picks and 2 more 1st rounders. They should be far further along than they are. But it goes to show that high picks don't save you without support pieces in place

 

 

I don't see the resemblance at all. We haven't both sucked and failed at rebuilding. Of course it's only been three summers and there was nothing to rebuild with from the start. If we're bottom five in two years you may be able to start a comparison with Edmonton. But both Pittsburgh and Chicago took seven years to rebuild.  You may want to be a little more patient.

 

 

That's what they are doing now. Both Chicago and Pittsburgh had 5 years of drafting before getting their two superstars in years 6 and 7. This actually gave previous years picks time to develop into NHL players for when the superstars arrived. As opposed to Edmonton with a multitude of high picks with nothing to support them.

 

 

You sound like those two were signed to carry this team into the future. They weren't. Sbisa was 24 years old and still developing. His contract was decent for his age and experience (over 200 NHL games). Had we offered what some fans thought was fair he would have had to go to free agency and could sign anywhere. Had Benning offered the same money he had been earning it would have been a one year deal not three. Sbsisa nor his agent are stupid. So he got a three year progressive deal. Meaning making more in the last year than the first. The idea being as a young player he improves each year, which he has. It's actually a good gamble on Bennings part because it's the type of deal that could see Sbisa's cap hit high in the first year but look like a steal in the final year.

 

I have no idea why so many are upset about Dorsett. He's a guy that will stand up for team mates against anybody, is actually a decent skater (and player) that can also PK as opposed to the useless knuckle dragger. He gives 110%, and can help young guys with what it take. he filled a toughness spot that was sorely lacking on this team. His deal, and Sbisa's are really bridge deals that fill the huge gap left by Gillis. We had zero NHL ready prospects in Utica. Zip, zero, nada. That hole needed to be filled to bridge the gap from aging veterans to a new core yet to come. It's also why Benning made deals for NHL ready guys like Vey, Baer, and Granny. All these deals buy time to develop Benning picks instead of just tossing everybody in the deep end.

 

As far as cap goes, we're not close to contending so it just doesn't matter. Dorsett will beoff the books long before then.

 

Great summary of the situation. Sbisa this season has upped his game to the point that Benning can consider moving either Edler or Tanev for forward help. I suspect it will be Tanev as his NTC does not kick in until summer. I advocate for such a trade because of the assumed return. The caution is the acquiring team has to value Tanev enough to protect him in the expansion draft which narrows the opportunity. I prefer Tanev going because of the potential return and because I think his game is high risk. Lots of blocked shots = injuries. Very little offensive upside. Not writing Tanev off simply trying to boost the forward group and he likely brings the greatest return.  

[PhillipBlunt]

On 12/7/2016 at 4:25 PM, orcasgonewild said:

And the 2017 first overall pick is...

 

A lot of canucks FANS would love to hear these words.

 

Others would rather we take our chances in the playoffs...

 

This year however is the turd cutlet of draft years considering your top pick will be...

 

NOLAN PATRICK.

 

I may not be a scout but I have watched him play several times and have done my research on him as well. He plays like RYAN NUGENT-HOPKINS!!!!! Is that really worth a season of drama. 

 

RNH IS PROJECTED TO HAVE 36 POINTS THIS YEAR!!!!

 

Second best option is Timothy liljegren. He does seem good but one player still isn't worth tanking for. 

 

 

What should happen...

 

Canucks try their hardest this season and end up where they shall. 

 

NEXT YEAR: 

 

Canucks see how their season goes and if it takes another nosedive make adjustments

Trade

Sedins 

Edler

ect...

 

GET YOUNGER

 

MANAGEMENT SAYS THEY DONT THINK THE FANS CAN HANDLE A REBUILD...

 

LOOK AT THE STANDS, LOOKS LIKE THEY CANT HANDLE LOSING EITHER... 

 

What do u think? 

The stands are emptier because a lot of fans don't want to pay the ridiculous ticket costs to watch a team in transition. That's not being a fan, that's being a sucker. 

[Alflives]

20 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

The stands are emptier because a lot of fans don't want to pay the ridiculous ticket costs to watch a team in transition. That's not being a fan, that's being a sucker. 

We pay ridiculous ticket and merchandise prices so too many US teams can exist, and have more exciting teams than ours.  I was watching a Flyer's broadcast, a top US team that's winning, and they were advertising tickets for 9 bucks.  And that's the Flyers!  

[Phat Fingers]

3 hours ago, Baggins said:

 

That's a fair comment. In the past 10 years they've had four 1st overall picks, two top 5 picks, 3 top 10 picks and 2 more 1st rounders. They should be far further along than they are. But it goes to show that high picks don't save you without support pieces in place

 

 

I don't see the resemblance at all. We haven't both sucked and failed at rebuilding. Of course it's only been three summers and there was nothing to rebuild with from the start. If we're bottom five in two years you may be able to start a comparison with Edmonton. But both Pittsburgh and Chicago took seven years to rebuild.  You may want to be a little more patient.

 

 

That's what they are doing now. Both Chicago and Pittsburgh had 5 years of drafting before getting their two superstars in years 6 and 7. This actually gave previous years picks time to develop into NHL players for when the superstars arrived. As opposed to Edmonton with a multitude of high picks with nothing to support them.

 

 

You sound like those two were signed to carry this team into the future. They weren't. Sbisa was 24 years old and still developing. His contract was decent for his age and experience (over 200 NHL games). Had we offered what some fans thought was fair he would have had to go to free agency and could sign anywhere. Had Benning offered the same money he had been earning it would have been a one year deal not three. Sbsisa nor his agent are stupid. So he got a three year progressive deal. Meaning making more in the last year than the first. The idea being as a young player he improves each year, which he has. It's actually a good gamble on Bennings part because it's the type of deal that could see Sbisa's cap hit high in the first year but look like a steal in the final year.

 

I have no idea why so many are upset about Dorsett. He's a guy that will stand up for team mates against anybody, is actually a decent skater (and player) that can also PK as opposed to the useless knuckle dragger. He gives 110%, and can help young guys with what it take. he filled a toughness spot that was sorely lacking on this team. His deal, and Sbisa's are really bridge deals that fill the huge gap left by Gillis. We had zero NHL ready prospects in Utica. Zip, zero, nada. That hole needed to be filled to bridge the gap from aging veterans to a new core yet to come. It's also why Benning made deals for NHL ready guys like Vey, Baer, and Granny. All these deals buy time to develop Benning picks instead of just tossing everybody in the deep end.

 

As far as cap goes, we're not close to contending so it just doesn't matter. Dorsett will beoff the books long before then.

 

 

Well said Baggins. 

 

I was going to respond, but glad I read further.

 

One of the discussions that seems to be a revolving door disagreement is comparing our 'rebuild' to others. Posters on this board are constantly looking at Mc Jesus and Austin Mathews and are pissed that those teams look further ahead in their rebuild. Hard to compare when the timelines are all different. 

 

EW

[Phat Fingers]

37 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We pay ridiculous ticket and merchandise prices so too many US teams can exist, and have more exciting teams than ours.  I was watching a Flyer's broadcast, a top US team that's winning, and they were advertising tickets for 9 bucks.  And that's the Flyers!  

 

 

The NHL has made it a business plan of exploiting our love of the game to support American teams. That is why Bettman is so hated here. 

[FireGillis]

It's not an ideal year to tank with a weak draft, but a top 3-5 pick would still help our future.  Now, next year's draft is supposed to be a lot better with franchise players in it.  That will be an exciting tank year.

[froskii]

Tanking is the stupidest thing i have ever heard you are pro hockey player no way in any game should you  not give it %200. You get paid a lot of money to put on the best show possible. If you want to tank go play in the army ffs.

[MoneypuckOverlord]

1 hour ago, FireGillis said:

It's not an ideal year to tank with a weak draft, but a top 3-5 pick would still help our future.  Now, next year's draft is supposed to be a lot better with franchise players in it.  That will be an exciting tank year.

 

Personally I think whatever team picks in the top 4, can get an impactful player.  There's no way Nolan Patrick's max potential is a number 2 centreman.

 

Timonthy Lindgren is at least a top pairing dman, who can skate the puck up and down the ice,

 

Even Hecher and Viladi will be impacting offensive players that can create offence.

[Davathor]

On 07/12/2016 at 9:38 PM, kingofsurrey said:

 

What did the last 3 years do for our club..... ?

 

We failed to move assets. We did nothing and watched valuable assets lose their value dramatically.....

 

For what ?  

 

 

The last three years weren't a tank except last year. Tell me what has the last 20 years done for this club? Some banners for being good in regular season? It's Stanley cup or nothing buds. And these middle pack finishes and first round exits have been tried. Time to tear it down.

[Butters Stoch]

12 hours ago, froskii said:

Tanking is the stupidest thing i have ever heard you are pro hockey player no way in any game should you  not give it %200. You get paid a lot of money to put on the best show possible. If you want to tank go play in the army ffs.

"Tanking" is basically what direction management decides to head in. When people here call for a tank, we want management to focus on stocking up on picks/prospects and developing over short term solutions to make our team mediocre. Your definition of "tank" is hockey players literally losing games on purpose. No player in their right mind would do that and no one expects them to. 

[Sean Monahan]

On December 7, 2016 at 9:44 PM, billabong said:

 

playing Patrick as 4th line centre is ludacris.