Tre Mac Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I guess John A forgot to google "How not to be a racist" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 I find it hard to feel sorry for victims of racism in the 1900's, and now, compared to what my ancestors faced from the Natives here in the 1600's. And vice versa. (The movie, The Revenant captures some of what life was like for white pioneer people, the folks whose faces are systematically disappearing, by design, from history) It's crazy that a black woman, rather than a Chief made it on a bill, but I'm not even going to hit on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 4 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: I find it hard to feel sorry for victims of racism in the 1900's, and now, compared to what my ancestors faced from the Natives here in the 1600's. And vice versa. (The movie, The Revenant captures some of what life was like for white pioneer people, the folks whose faces are systematically disappearing, by design, from history) It's crazy that a black woman, rather than a Chief made it on a bill, but I'm not even going to hit on that. You realize your ancestors were the invaders, right? And just so you get it straight - no one is "erasing" anything. Its addition of other stories. If you think adding in other people's experiences is taking something away from you, you're the one with the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 38 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said: This is really interesting. So on 1 - how is she not part of our heritage? how is this not an "observation" of many peoples experience out east, and 2 - how is putting a Queen or anyone else for that matter also not "social engineering"? Any choice makes a social statement, why the vitriol over this one in particular? I lived in NS for 3 years, and I can tell you racism against black people is alive and well out there, I was really shocked by it. People living out west have no idea. Context. She is 1900's. Heritage should mean longer than a few generations, right? I'm not getting in to the Queen. Unreal that we still have to deal with that observance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 29 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said: I think this symbol is a damn fine way of respecting Canadian heritage. Much of post-Confederation heritage has been the struggle to attain freedom and happiness. Viola Desmond overcame this struggle and is a story worth celebrating. I don't disagree, except this 10-thing is literally reverse racism. One lady is recent past, the other dude is heritage. I hate identity politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 1 minute ago, 189lb enforcers? said: Context. She is 1900's. Heritage should mean longer than a few generations, right? I'm not getting in to the Queen. Unreal that we still have to deal with that observance. Well I suppose history happens at its own pace. Sure we could put a 150 year limit on it if that made any sense. Time can wash away the sense of a true person as well tho, and John A did some nasty stuff. I actually like the fact that we can hear from people that knew this person and how she effected things positively. Opposition to this just gets weirder for me give the fact that John A is getting a higher number bill !! (http://www.moneysense.ca/news/sir-john-a-macdonald-canadas-money/) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 1 minute ago, 189lb enforcers? said: I don't disagree, except this 10-thing is literally reverse racism. One lady is recent past, the other dude is heritage. I hate identity politics. Only because thats how you're choosing to look at it! Why wouldn't a first nations hero be the same thing? For some reason you're not valuing her contribution, and thats fine, you don't have to. But going the extra mile and labelling it as "revere racism" is just bunk, sorry dude it is. You don't have to value what she did, but others do. Just like with John A, I think he was a racist drunk and actually wrote a pretty awful constitution, but you like him on the 10. It doesn't mean in my mind that YOU support racism. Can you see that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 7 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said: You realize your ancestors were the invaders, right? And just so you get it straight - no one is "erasing" anything. Its addition of other stories. If you think adding in other people's experiences is taking something away from you, you're the one with the issue. Addition by subtraction? Stick with the context here. A founding father is being removed to make way from a black woman who enjoyed her freedoms campaign afforded by his Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Just now, 189lb enforcers? said: Addition by subtraction? Stick with the context here. A founding father is being removed to make way from a black woman who enjoyed her freedoms campaign afforded by his Canada. "his" Canada would never have given her any rights. She went out and got them for herself and others. How can you not see that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalie13 Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 20 hours ago, DonLever said: Why did they chose to remove John A. McDonald the first Prime Minister of Canada and not Wilfred Laurier, McKenzie KIng or William Borden? McDonald could be considered the founding father of Canada and the most important politician in Canadian history. Could it be he is the only sole Conservative PM on Canadian money? Laurier, King, were Liberals. Borden was also Liberal before switching to the Conservatives. They didn't. King and Borden are being dropped. Macdonald and Laurier are moving to the $50 and $100 bills. http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/historians-shrug-as-two-prime-ministers-erased-from-canadian-banknotes-1.3195713 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 17 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said: I find it hard to feel sorry for victims of racism in the 1900's, and now, compared to what my ancestors faced from the Natives here in the 1600's. And vice versa. (The movie, The Revenant captures some of what life was like for white pioneer people, the folks whose faces are systematically disappearing, by design, from history) It's crazy that a black woman, rather than a Chief made it on a bill, but I'm not even going to hit on that. I feel way more sorry for the people that were ordered to charge at the machine guns during the world wars. Heck, if it wasn't for the Newfoundland brigade loosing so many troops in on single battle in WW1, they might be their own independent country, a sort of modern day (all be it cooler any wetter, and certainly windier) Burmuda! Ergo, since I love the Newfies so much, we should put a WW1 German machine gunner on the next bill. After all, they are the driving force for why they are part of Canada now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 1 minute ago, ronthecivil said: I feel way more sorry for the people that were ordered to charge at the machine guns during the world wars. Heck, if it wasn't for the Newfoundland brigade loosing so many troops in on single battle in WW1, they might be their own independent country, a sort of modern day (all be it cooler any wetter, and certainly windier) Burmuda! Ergo, since I love the Newfies so much, we should put a WW1 German machine gunner on the next bill. After all, they are the driving force for why they are part of Canada now! Your argument would be logical if they put the movie theatre manager on the $10, not Viola. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
189lb enforcers? Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 1 minute ago, S'all Good Man said: Only because thats how you're choosing to look at it! Why wouldn't a first nations hero be the same thing? For some reason you're not valuing her contribution, and thats fine, you don't have to. But going the extra mile and labelling it as "revere racism" is just bunk, sorry dude it is. You don't have to value what she did, but others do. Just like with John A, I think he was a racist drunk and actually wrote a pretty awful constitution, but you like him on the 10. It doesn't mean in my mind that YOU support racism. Can you see that? I see that you are exercising the rights afforded to you by that racist drunk guy who made a crappy "constitution". Can you see that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 1 minute ago, 189lb enforcers? said: I see that you are exercising the rights afforded to you by that racist drunk guy who made a crappy "constitution". Can you see that? Actually I'm exercising freedom of speech that PET brought in with the CR&F.... I guess I'm struggling to understand how anyone feels like something is being taken away from them, or our history, by this change to the $10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 16 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said: I grew up in the Maritimes, and the social studies curriculum was built around our region. But we did not learn about the Komagata Maru or Japanese internment. I don't think people out East really cared about that stuff, but those two events were important parts of Canadian history and things that all Canadians should be made aware of. Wouldn't you say the same thing about the injustices that occurred out in the Atlantic? I think the curriculum should cover it all. From what I remember, there seemed to be a lot of repetition of Canadian history that I was taught, so perhaps the opportunity is there to cover both important items. I've said here earlier that Desmond's story should be taught, and for me it has been interesting to learn about what happened to her. 16 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said: Again, I must emphasize the power of regionalism in Canada. Part of the success of the American Civil Rights Movement should be attributed to the fact that black people united from all across the nation. In fact, the Civil Rights Movement did have an effect on Canadian politics: the Quiet Revolution in Quebec. You could argue this as being historical revisionism (calling into question Desmond's motives), but you are falling into the same trap. Nova Scotia had the largest black Canadian community during that time. Desmond did what she could within that community. You cannot fault her for failing to mobilize a nationwide black population, which outside of Nova Scotia was scattered. Also, Rosa Parks had allies like MLK Jr, and there were other movements going on (Malcolm X). Fair enough. It may have been easier for Rosa to step up, and I also understand that Desmond came first so less of a trail had been blazed before her. I wasn't questioning her motives, just suggesting that she was being recognized for more than what she contributed. From all appearances, she was only a victim. Maybe there is more to the story that has not been made clear yet, but solely as a victim, she didn't actively do anything to advance civil rights, and someone else who took a stronger role (whoever that may be) would be more deserving of the honor of being on the $10 bill, IMO. If there is more to the story, then I am open to bengi more accepting of this change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthecivil Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 1 hour ago, S'all Good Man said: Your argument would be logical if they put the movie theatre manager on the $10, not Viola. Fine. Put a crying mother looking out at a berthed fishing fleet or a shot up solder tangled in barbed wire then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 17 hours ago, DonLever said: Mackenzie King was the PM who signed the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1923. So he was a racist too. But you have to look at the times in which these politicians lived - they were ALL racist compared to now. Racism was the norm in the late 1880's and early 1900's. Politicians were just reflecting the attitudes of the society during that time. No argument there, Don. As I said, MacDonald had positive influence as well as negative and I had no issue with his previous inclusion on Canadian currency. However, certain people in this discussion are acting as if this is some sort of blasphemous action and that John A's replacement has done nothing worthy of the honor. I disagree on both counts. 12 hours ago, Lancaster said: Why not the great Aboriginal leader Tecumseh? How about Douglas Jung, the first Chinese-Canadian elected to office, who also served in WW2? Or the war hero Billy Bishop with 72 confirmed kills in WW1.... only some French dude and the Red Baron eclipsed his totals. Maybe even Ezekiel Hart, the first Jewish individual elected in Lower Canada and the British realm? I guess Black is the fashionable colour currently. And why should it be anyone of those choices, rather than the one that was ultimately decided on? There were several candidates being considered, but Desmond was the one they chose. What makes your opinion any more valid than the people who made this decision? If you're okay with any of these other candidates, then I guess it must follow that you aren't necessarily bothered by MacDonald's removal. So what is your real problem with this? You seem to have an issue with the choice because she's black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Just now, RUPERTKBD said: And why should it be anyone of those choices, rather than the one that was ultimately decided on? There were several candidates being considered, but Desmond was the one they chose. What makes your opinion any more valid than the people who made this decision? If you're okay with any of these other candidates, then I guess it must follow that you aren't necessarily bothered by MacDonald's removal. So what is your real problem with this? You seem to have an issue with the choice because she's black. Because it appears to be arbitrarily done with minimal rhyme or reason. I don't mind if she appeared in some limited run, special edition coins/bills whatever, but to simply change up because they want to be PC is just stupid. If they want to put someone new on the bill, it has to be someone who changed the face of Canada or achieved something heroic. I'm expecting something along the line of Louis Riel or someone with that level of greatness. Viola Desmond.... we all know she's under-the-radar, but she just doesn't hold a candle to many other candidates. To use a Canucks analogy, she would be the equivalent of retiring Alex Burrows's number..... he's a good player, with big impact on the franchise, but not quite up there with Linden, Naslund, Smyl, Bure, and Henrik/Daniel (when they do retire). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 "If they want to put someone new on the bill, it has to be someone who changed the face of Canada ..." Why does it have to be someone who .........? The only parts I care about is the writing that says "Legal tender" and the denomination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Lancaster said: Because it appears to be arbitrarily done with minimal rhyme or reason. I don't mind if she appeared in some limited run, special edition coins/bills whatever, but to simply change up because they want to be PC is just stupid. If they want to put someone new on the bill, it has to be someone who changed the face of Canada or achieved something heroic. I'm expecting something along the line of Louis Riel or someone with that level of greatness. Viola Desmond.... we all know she's under-the-radar, but she just doesn't hold a candle to many other candidates. To use a Canucks analogy, she would be the equivalent of retiring Alex Burrows's number..... he's a good player, with big impact on the franchise, but not quite up there with Linden, Naslund, Smyl, Bure, and Henrik/Daniel (when they do retire). This is all your personal opinion. Even the part where you surmise that the decision was made with "minimal rhyme or reason". Quote The selection of Viola Desmond is the final step in the #bankNOTEable campaign to choose an iconic Canadian woman to appear on the new $10 bank note. Last spring, an open call for nominations launched by the Bank yielded more than 26,300 submissions from across Canada, resulting in 461 eligible candidates. An independent Advisory Council composed of Canadian academic, sport, cultural and thought leaders narrowed down the list to five candidates. They were: Viola Desmond (1914–1965); E. Pauline Johnson (1861–1913); Elizabeth (Elsie) MacGill (1905–1980); Fanny (Bobbie) Rosenfeld (1904–1969) and Idola Saint-Jean (1880–1945). This doesn't strike me as "minimal". At some point people have to realize that others aren't "wrong" just because they don't share one's viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.