Benning on Team 1040 December 9

[HerrDrFunk]

2 minutes ago, Rocksterh8 said:

 

you have to follow the thread, we are talking about picks aquired. not any trades

We acquired 2nds for both of them, genius. 

 

But that's cool, I can tell you're just going to cherry pick info that supports your argument anyway.

[aGENT]

7 minutes ago, Rocksterh8 said:

 

you have to follow the thread, we are talking about picks aquired. not any trades

 

Picks are acquired through trades. 

 

6 minutes ago, Rocksterh8 said:

 

Oh yes, thats because you heard Jim tell you that in a interview. Lets believe everything he spews out.

 

No, that's because I heard Stetcher say it in an interview in the preseason. 

[mll]

19 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

Just looking at JBs picks traded away I think this is the history (please correct me if I missed one) - I'm just looking at the "out" column here not back in:

2014 3rd rounder for Dorsett

2015 3rd rounder in Kes deal for Sbisa

2nd round pick for Vey

3rd round pick for Pedan

2nd round pick for Baer

5th for Prust

2nd for Sutter

7th for Etem

5th for Larsen

 

Watching Dorsett contribute on forechecking and willingness to fight, I'd call that worth the pick. His salary is a different argument. 

 

We'll get the 3rd back, maybe better for Sbisa. in the Kes deal, plus he is a solid #5 D. Thats worth something. 

 

Vey - bust

 

Pedan - he may make it yet

 

2nd for Baer - again, too soon to tell but he may make it

 

5th for Prust - bust

 

2nd for Sutter - totally worth it imo

 

7th for Eten - bust

 

5th for Larsen - if we keep him on as a #7 or move him at the TDL for a similar pick ... I'd say even

 

So just looking at the picks being spent - JB didn't go insane throwing away a 1st rounder. The only true "busts" were Vey and Etem. Etem for a #7 was a good risk. Really Vey is the only blow out, and thats not so bad. Everyone else might make the team or is contributing in a significant way. 

 

 

 

 

2nd for Gudbranson

7th was added in the Garrison trade

Etem was a 6th not 7th

[ForsbergTheGreat]

24 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

Just looking at JBs picks traded away I think this is the history (please correct me if I missed one) - I'm just looking at the "out" column here not back in:

2014 3rd rounder for Dorsett

2015 3rd rounder in Kes deal for Sbisa

2nd round pick for Vey

3rd round pick for Pedan

2nd round pick for Baer

5th for Prust

2nd for Sutter

7th for Etem

5th for Larsen

 

Watching Dorsett contribute on forechecking and willingness to fight, I'd call that worth the pick. His salary is a different argument. 

 

We'll get the 3rd back, maybe better for Sbisa. in the Kes deal, plus he is a solid #5 D. Thats worth something. 

 

Vey - bust

 

Pedan - he may make it yet

 

2nd for Baer - again, too soon to tell but he may make it

 

5th for Prust - bust

 

2nd for Sutter - totally worth it imo

 

7th for Eten - bust

 

5th for Larsen - if we keep him on as a #7 or move him at the TDL for a similar pick ... I'd say even

 

So just looking at the picks being spent - JB didn't go insane throwing away a 1st rounder. The only true "busts" were Vey and Etem. Etem for a #7 was a good risk. Really Vey is the only blow out, and thats not so bad. Everyone else might make the team or is contributing in a significant way. 

 

We also through in a 2nd with guddy but that's a win in my books. 

Vey (2nd) Etem (6th) Prust (5th) Pedan (3rd) Larsen (5th) are all busts

 

And All draft picks hold value, even if they never play a game for you in the NHL, even if they are late round picks.

 

Before the draft

At the draft, the more picks you have the more open you become to take a flyer on a high risk player.

More picks brings a different focus on scouting, and players you might have skipped over might get a second look.

 

Once you draft a player

Teams like to keep tabs on a player, this brings a chance to see other players (teammates) you might not have got to see as often.  It also help sign teammates that are free agents.

Just because a player doesn’t make an impact in the NHL doesn’t mean they don’t help you AHL team become competitive, which in turn helps player development.

Trade value players do develop and even before they play in the NHL can up their value.  We were able to move Forsling for a near NHL ready player, CHI doesn’t make that trade for just a 5th round pick.

 

And then there are the players that do break the odds and become players for you.  Like for example, Hutton, Bieska, Hansen, Gaudreau and trading them away as add on doesn’t help.  Like say in 2007, when the Bruins traded a 2007 fifth round pick (#129 overall)  to the Stars for the rights to Adam McQuaid.

 

My biggest issue is the majority of these players are high risk, unproven players. They have next to no NHL success and are all mostly waiver eligible or upcoming ufa's.  Make the Dorsett deal and guddy ones all day but we can't afford to take high risks with our picks.  Not when we are rebuilding and drafting is our strong suit

[JM_]

Just now, mll said:

 

2nd for Gudbranson

7th for Garrison

Etem was a 6th not 7th

 

Thanks. Guddy - again that works for me, its so hard to get D talent in this market I don't see that as a "wasted" pick.

 

Same on Etem - I think the chance of a 6th rounder making it to the NHL for even 100 games is around 15% so decent risk there. 

 

Garrison was a needed salary dump. 

 

My point here is I see a lot of folks complaining hard about Benning "throwing away" picks, but that means they were wasted. Other than Vey and Prust I don't see how thats a legit argument. 

[HerrDrFunk]

1 minute ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

Thanks. Guddy - again that works for me, its so hard to get D talent in this market I don't see that as a "wasted" pick.

 

Same on Etem - I think the chance of a 6th rounder making it to the NHL for even 100 games is around 15% so decent risk there. 

 

Garrison was a needed salary dump. 

 

My point here is I see a lot of folks complaining hard about Benning "throwing away" picks, but that means they were wasted. Other than Vey and Prust I don't see how thats a legit argument. 

Considering the 5th was probably the sweetener to dump Kassian on them, I'd say that worked out decently for us. Kassian may be finding some success in Edmonton but he was never going to do that while he was here. 

[canuktravella]

33 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Not a huge fan of Benning's comments. Were Bieksa and Hamhuis not good leaders? Frankly Hamhuis was a far better mentor than Edler ever will be, so Benning's statement that the remaining vets with NTCs are the best leaders the team could have seems a bit strange. 

what did hamhuis mentor in the last 2-3 yrs how not to be offensive how not to clear a crease or be physical or how to get passes picked off by opposing forwards instead of clearing crease. He was mailing it in making way to much salary good riddance elder at least eats minutes puts up offence.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

We also through in a 2nd with guddy but that's a win in my books. 

Vey (2nd) Etem (7th) Prust (5th) Pedan (3rd) Larsen (5th) are all busts

 

My biggest issue is the majority of these players are high risk, unproven players. They have next to no NHL success and are all mostly waiver eligible or upcoming ufa's.  Make the Dorsett deal and guddy ones all day but we can't afford to take high risks with our picks.  Not when we are rebuilding and drafting is our strong suit

 

Sure but I can see the logic, he was trying a few hail mary's in the absence of other prospects in the system. 

 

Had we wasted more than one 2nd, or a 1st? Sure I can understand the pitchforks, but the other deals I can understand. He needed players he could try to slot in right away. Say he saved those picks, you still have to develop them, and in the meantime what do you put on the ice?

 

[aGENT]

8 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

Thanks. Guddy - again that works for me, its so hard to get D talent in this market I don't see that as a "wasted" pick.

 

Same on Etem - I think the chance of a 6th rounder making it to the NHL for even 100 games is around 15% so decent risk there. 

 

Garrison was a needed salary dump. 

 

My point here is I see a lot of folks complaining hard about Benning "throwing away" picks, but that means they were wasted. Other than Vey and Prust I don't see how thats a legit argument. 

 

But he didn't get 100%!!!! 

[bohoforpresident]

Some people seem to want us to trade away a quarter of our team for draft picks.

 

You can't ice a hockey team of future draft picks. 

 

The canucks are going to try and remain competitive. Get used to it. 

 

Ignorance is usually bliss not in this case though.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

3 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

Sure but I can see the logic, he was trying a few hail mary's in the absence of other prospects in the system. 

 

Had we wasted more than one 2nd, or a 1st? Sure I can understand the pitchforks, but the other deals I can understand. He needed players he could try to slot in right away. Say he saved those picks, you still have to develop them, and in the meantime what do you put on the ice?

 

I'm not suggesting he needs to be fired. I like jb a lot. I'm just pointing out the mistakes. And glad he's going to keep his picks this year. 

 

Again though with our current success. It really doesn't matter who we put on the ice. We flat out suck. We could have kept Matthias santo Richardson or we could have signed any bum ufa. It not like most of the players we got did anything to bring success to this team. 

[PhillipBlunt]

6 minutes ago, canuktravella said:

what did hamhuis mentor in the last 2-3 yrs how not to be offensive how not to clear a crease or be physical or how to get passes picked off by opposing forwards instead of clearing crease. He was mailing it in making way to much salary good riddance elder at least eats minutes puts up offence.

Tanev, Hutton, and Tryamkin have all mentioned Hamhuis' being instrumental in their development. I'll take the players words on the situation. 

[agent007]

1 hour ago, Fateless said:

I'm still very unhappy that they're flat-out unwilling to look at trading any of the remaining NTC players. 

 

As it currently stands, we're going to be exposing one of Baer or Granlund because Burrows and Hansen both must be protected. While I love both Burrows and Hansen, I would much rather one or both of them be traded for picks and prospects. Hansen is a very valuable commodity right now and is the perfect player to help a team make a run at the cup. Burrows has shown he has value still and could likely garnish a 2nd or 3rd from a contender and we could very likely sign him back in free agency.

 

The fact that we may end up losing one of our young players that have been developing because management is unwilling to trade a vet makes me sick.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong

 

Why does Burrows need to be protected? His contract ends after this season. Meaning he will be an unresricted free agent. This means we only have to expose one of Sven or Markus, which almost every team has to do. No?

[Gaudette Celly]

12 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

My point here is I see a lot of folks complaining hard about Benning "throwing away" picks, but that means they were wasted. Other than Vey and Prust I don't see how thats a legit argument. 

 

Yeah, cuz Gudbranson was worth McCann straight up, Sutter was worth Bonino straight up, Etem was worth Jensen straight up, etc.  Benning was totally bent over into giving up all those extra picks for nothing.  He was "throwing in" the vig!

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

One thing he does need to solve is who gets the last two  expansion draft protection slot in the forward group. Granlund, Baertschi, Hansen are fighting for the last 2 spots, and I'd prefer not to lose either three of them.

 

That should be JB's concern atm.

[Gaudette Celly]

29 minutes ago, Rocksterh8 said:

 

you have to follow the thread, we are talking about picks aquired. not any trades

 

22 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

Picks are acquired through trades.

 

Perhaps there is another means Benning should have been using to get picks... oh, like Tortorella!  If that's the case, then Benning is net positive on "acquiring picks."  Maybe we can con the Islanders into taking Gillis and Gilman and get some more compo, too. 

When the facts fail, it's time to move the goalposts.

[iceman64]

47 minutes ago, Hutton Wink said:

 

Irrelevant thesis -- one's age has nothing to do with trolling.

You know very well there were multiple trades to acquire picks, so you are either playing ignorant or trolling.  Or both.

And for the record, I was around before the team was.

Both... in SPADES! 

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

He also said he won't ask any NTC's to waive. That does not = not trading any NTC's.

Also worth noting that not asking to waive clauses only really applies to the players with current season full NMC or NTC (ie: Sedins, Eriksson, Sutter, Burrows, Edler).

 

He could certainly work within the terms of the limited/modified NTCs (ie: Hansen, Miller) to make trades.

 

Or the open window before pending NTCs are activated in the contract (ie: Tanev).

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Also worth noting that not asking to waive clauses only really applies to the players with current season full NMC or NTC (ie: Sedins, Eriksson, Sutter, Burrows, Edler).

 

He could certainly work within the terms of the limited/modified NTCs (ie: Hansen, Miller) to make trades.

 

Or the open window before pending NTCs are activated in the contract (ie: Tanev).

 

Indeed. And I hope we see Tanev moved for a young forward this summer (I think it's more likely to happen then, than at the TDL.

[mll]

1 minute ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

Also worth noting that not asking to waive clauses only really applies to the players with current season full NMC or NTC (ie: Sedins, Eriksson, Sutter, Burrows, Edler).

 

He could certainly work within the terms of the limited/modified NTCs (ie: Hansen, Miller) to make trades.

 

Or the open window before pending NTCs are activated in the contract (ie: Tanev).

 

Modified NTC means going to the player and asking him for a list of teams.  Benning said that he does not want players wondering if they will be traded or not.  I don't think he is going to play on technicalities - everyone who has a trade clause will be with the team by the end of the season unless they ask for a trade.