aGENT Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 7 minutes ago, JamesB said: But right now the D is struggling, as chickenman indicates. JR points out that having Tanev and Edler out hurts a lot, but there has also been disappointing performance from other players. Obviously way too much was expected of Hutton and Gudbranson and the extra pressure has hurt them instead of letting them rise to the occasion. Larsen was a failed experiment even before being injured (but I certainly wish him the best). Sbisa is not bad. You are happy to have him in the bottom pair, but if he is in your top 4 that means you are struggling. Having Tanev and Edler out means our 2nd pairing is playing as our 1st pairing. No matter how good of a 2nd pair or #3-#4 D you think Hutton and Gudbranson are or will be in a few years, that's not a recipe for wins or good GA. The entire D is being forced to play above their heads and it shows. Having them also be EXTREMELY young doesn't help. Larsen is just fine as a Weber replacing, #7/8 complimentary, offensive D. Stetcher's just better than that. That's not a knock on Larsen. Sbisa is a solid, #5 D who can fill in at #4 with injuries. Nothing wrong with that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apollo Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 34 minutes ago, Tajun said: I miss the old apollo Me too bro... He died when Jimbo, Treber and Willie sewered the team he loves He'll be back when we start winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Just now, apollo said: Me too bro... He died when Jimbo, Treber and Willie sewered the team he loves He'll be back when we start winning. Alf fell on the floor laughing, and HE CAN'T GET UP. Too funny Apollo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apollo Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Alf fell on the floor laughing, and HE CAN'T GET UP. Too funny Apollo! Glad to have provided some laughs in such miserable times! I keep refreshing CDC hoping someone has been fired... please Aquaman, do something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 1 minute ago, apollo said: Glad to have provided some laughs in such miserable times! I keep refreshing CDC hoping someone has been fired... please Aquaman, do something... I know. As fans we need something to bring us hope for a better tomorrow. If we hired a coach - who had a rebuild, and develop mandate - to a 5 year deal at least we would have clear direction. I hate this in between stuff. I actually think JB screwed over WD last season by giving him guys to develop, while trying to compete. Now this season it's all about winning and not developing, and we are EVEN WORSE. Let's just tear the house back to the foundation and start over - PLEASE. Alf is too confused, and still on the friggin floor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 9 minutes ago, Alflives said: and HE CAN'T GET UP. You know you can get medication for that....errr, oops, sorry wrong subject. Quote As fans we need something to bring us hope for a better tomorrow. Heh, I've been hoping for a better tomorrow since 1970... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 1 minute ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: You know you can get medication for that....errr, oops, sorry wrong subject. Heh, I've been hoping for a better tomorrow since 1970... And I've been using "little blue pills" since 1970. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Interesting to see the current roster leaders. Henrik and Daniel are still leading the team in points but Horvat, Sutter, and Baertschi are within 3-6 points of the Sedins while Eriksson is 7-8 points from the top. The Sedins and Eriksson ($7mil and $6mil) have dropped to the value level of Sutter at $4.8, Baertschi at $1.8, and Horvat's EL of $895. On the one hand, we have an incentive based structure that sends a positive message to our young guys - perform well and you'll be rewarded financially for earning it. On the other, our highest paid players aren't performing to the level of high-end pay. That can sometimes lead to pay inequality impacting performance. Glad Benning has a focus on character. So, a lack of production value from high paid vets turns into leadership value. Without an out to offset production value ... ability to move that player as a consequence ... you have to justify added value through veteran leadership/mentors. I mean, really, our vets have NMCs and NTCs so you have no other choice but to justify it that way. Of course our inexperienced D plays a role, which ups the value of veteran leadership at times like this. You can make the case with the Sedins both for leadership value and whatever they manage to produce for the remainder of their contracts. Given where we are as a team, you can justify their intangible value over the tangible. At the same time, management needs to weigh that value against potentially moving them, retaining salary %, and an immediate return (roster player) and future value in picks. By all indications from the get go, management has already made the decision. They won't go there. And it's certainly the path of least resistance logistically at the present time. This is where I see the Eriksson contract becoming an albatross around Benning's neck. If you don't have the ability to move a player, you can't justify another 5 years at $6mill per as worth the intangible value of veteran leadership over production. It's clear this team was threading the needle on the Sedins having stable production of the last couple seasons and Eriksson repeating his 30 goal year. And with Hansen, Tanev and Edler out, we once again rely on guys playing over their heads and overcompensating. At least we're getting decent value from Burrows production wise. I thought the value of his salary was riding mostly on leadership. To me, the real value has been seeing Horvat and Baertschi succeed and what a healthy Sutter brings to the lineup. We're finally seeing the start of something new take shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamJamIam Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 12 hours ago, Green Building said: Maximum irrelevance. Goes well with minimum intelligence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucksnihilist Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 I'm kind of sick of the whole - "need to keep veterans around to mentor the young players". I assume that means winning games and performing well... so if the veterans aren't doing that - i.e. NOT LEADING ON THE ICE - what kind of message does that send anyways? It says - aka the Messier era - take it easy... we aren't good enough anyways. Fill the roster spots with young hungry players who are inexperienced, and you get a team trying to find a way to win, but who already show the skill and speed and talent. The vets have to have the skill and speed to be a part of that group, else they are just anchors. Good example: Messier when he went to New york still had it - and he mentored that team to a cup. When he came to Vancouver he did not have it anymore and was an anchor. It's really simple: vets who can't perform need demotions down the lineup. If not, the message they send is that your performance doesn't matter to your ice time. And that is what we have right now. Love the Sedins, but they finally hit the wall. Sutter and Eriksson - they look like they've hit walls too, or maybe they can't handle the travel and size in the pacific conference? Something is wrong with those 2. these players need demotions and changes given to younger players. we might find we actually have young players who can play as well as they can already - granted that isn't a stretch... bah. good thing we are still trying to make the playoffs. can't imagine it at all... if you've actually been to see any of the games I would be floored if you really thought this team can make the playoffs. Either you don't know hockey very well, or you are a moron. So to hear the management team talk it makes you wonder.... guess they can't $&!# on their own team though - they've already committed to trying to keep their jobs so don't expect much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 3 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said: Interesting to see the current roster leaders. Henrik and Daniel are still leading the team in points but Horvat, Sutter, and Baertschi are within 3-6 points of the Sedins while Eriksson is 7-8 points from the top. The Sedins and Eriksson ($7mil and $6mil) have dropped to the value level of Sutter at $4.8, Baertschi at $1.8, and Horvat's EL of $895. On the one hand, we have an incentive based structure that sends a positive message to our young guys - perform well and you'll be rewarded financially for earning it. On the other, our highest paid players aren't performing to the level of high-end pay. That can sometimes lead to pay inequality impacting performance. Glad Benning has a focus on character. So, a lack of production value from high paid vets turns into leadership value. Without an out to offset production value ... ability to move that player as a consequence ... you have to justify added value through veteran leadership/mentors. I mean, really, our vets have NMCs and NTCs so you have no other choice but to justify it that way. Of course our inexperienced D plays a role, which ups the value of veteran leadership at times like this. You can make the case with the Sedins both for leadership value and whatever they manage to produce for the remainder of their contracts. Given where we are as a team, you can justify their intangible value over the tangible. At the same time, management needs to weigh that value against potentially moving them, retaining salary %, and an immediate return (roster player) and future value in picks. By all indications from the get go, management has already made the decision. They won't go there. And it's certainly the path of least resistance logistically at the present time. This is where I see the Eriksson contract becoming an albatross around Benning's neck. If you don't have the ability to move a player, you can't justify another 5 years at $6mill per as worth the intangible value of veteran leadership over production. It's clear this team was threading the needle on the Sedins having stable production of the last couple seasons and Eriksson repeating his 30 goal year. And with Hansen, Tanev and Edler out, we once again rely on guys playing over their heads and overcompensating. At least we're getting decent value from Burrows production wise. I thought the value of his salary was riding mostly on leadership. To me, the real value has been seeing Horvat and Baertschi succeed and what a healthy Sutter brings to the lineup. We're finally seeing the start of something new take shape. Excellent post:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck_Fan_52 Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Well, if the Canucks have reached a low, there is nowhere to go but up!! Let's have some optimism here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aquamen Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 2019/2020 is the season we start seeing progress, team is beeing built from Goalie to Defence. The focus will be Offense now, even with Tanev and Edler ( Edler is washed up) our top pairing we would of struggled these last 15 game's. Our offense is the problem we just don't have the elite players or prospects, that can play with skill instead of grinding playing a system. Yes Boeser blah blah, nothing against the kid but I'll be sold when I see him play in the NHL. Sorry to say fellow Canuck Fans but Horvat is not a #1 Centre :(... I wish he were but he isn't. A bonafide Centre we need to find still. Once we have at least 5 elite prospects in the pool, or even 1 youngster who can jump in and produce and when I say produce it means 45+ points, we aren't really upgrading our rebuild. It sucks now stay the course, be happy enjoy the Holdidays....and in 3 year's time we will be playing in May again, only if we find a true # 1 Centre cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aquamen Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 2019/2020 is the season we start seeing progress, team is beeing built from Goalie to Defence. The focus will be Offense now, even with Tanev and Edler ( Edler is washed up) our top pairing we would of struggled these last 15 game's. Our offense is the problem we just don't have the elite players or prospects, that can play with skill instead of grinding playing a system. Yes Boeser blah blah, nothing against the kid but I'll be sold when I see him play in the NHL. Sorry to say fellow Canuck Fans but Horvat is not a #1 Centre :(... I wish he were but he isn't. A bonafide Centre we need to find still. Once we have at least 5 elite prospects in the pool, or even 1 youngster who can jump in and produce and when I say produce it means 45+ points, we aren't really upgrading our rebuild. It sucks now stay the course, be happy enjoy the Holdidays....and in 3 year's time we will be playing in May again, only if we find a true # 1 Centre cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 13 minutes ago, The Aquamen said: Sorry to say fellow Canuck Fans but Horvat is not a #1 Centre :(... I wish he were but he isn't. A bonafide Centre we need to find still. Have to start from somewhere. Horvat seems like future captain material..a leader (granted I once thought of Cody Hodgson lol...). He's a bonafide Center in my mind after all, he's the guy kind of sheltering Sutter (and not the other way around like Sutter was supposed to...). Could do ALOT worse than having him as the #2 Center on the team for years to come. ALOT worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aquamen Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 15 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: Have to start from somewhere. Horvat seems like future captain material..a leader (granted I once thought of Cody Hodgson lol...). He's a bonafide Center in my mind after all, he's the guy kind of sheltering Sutter (and not the other way around like Sutter was supposed to...). Could do ALOT worse than having him as the #2 Center on the team for years to come. ALOT worse. You are absolutely right we have to start somewhere:). Horvat yes I see captaincy in him, and yes he's a bonafide Centre but a #2 my man. We are living in the worse but it can't get any more worse right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 4 hours ago, oldnews said: If you're expecting to win under the circumstances, I think you need a good dose of @LaBamba. The irony for me is that folks like yourself who honestly did not believe the team could compete - ignore some key additional context - and yet wonder why the results aren't at the level the team is striving for. I also can't get on board with complaining about how 'weak' the draft if supposed to be - I find those kind of premature declarations say as much about the glasses of the viewer as they do reality. There will be very good players available when the Canucks step up to the podium, and we won't be winning any lotteries regardless. Expect to drop a few spots in draft order - it's the healthiest and most realistic disposition with respect to the draft (or any thing Canuck). Its not that the draft is "weak" it's that there isn't an easy way out type player for us to luck out on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 ok so we have been in most games and played decent for all games but a few.To me in a rebuild that looks better then losing by 3 plus every game! So for entertainment least it gives the fans us a hope that we can win games! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B Cooper Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 57 minutes ago, LaBamba said: Its not that the draft is "weak" it's that there isn't an easy way out type player for us to luck out on. No there isn't, but where we will be picking,1-5(IMO) we will be able to get what should turn out to be our #1 prospect and closer to a 1st line center, #1 Dman than we currently have. Liljegrin (spelling?) makes me drool thinking about the potential. The kid could be straight up amazing. Patrick is a great player. Don't need to say much more. Hischeir could be the fastest player in the league. Its a better draft than a few people say. We are going to end up really happy with whoever we get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salmonberries Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 15 hours ago, Oliewud said: Mike Gillis traded away 12 picks over a 6 year period. Jim Benning has traded away 12 picks over a 2.5 year period. Considering the use Gillis made of those picks he'd have been better served trading away fifty or sixty draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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