Draft Dunce

[Team Bagues]

5 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

You're grasping here....Benning was not a scout in Boston..He was the AGM (should we start blaming Gilman for Gillis' poor drafting?)...Benning was a scout for the Buffalo Sabres.

Yeah, what he said.

Turbulent times on the Wet Coast.

The lattes and bong hits are starting to mess with people's minds.

 

[Baggins]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Ehlers, Pastrnak, and Tkatchuk would look pretty darned good in our lineup, considering JB is "transitioning the lineup" to a younger group.  

 

They would look good on several other teams that made other choices too.

[Honky Cat]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Ehlers, Pastrnak, and Tkatchuk would look pretty darned good in our lineup, considering JB is "transitioning the lineup" to a younger group.  

We had previously drafted two small,skilled forwards in Schroeder and Hodgson..So I can see why the Canucks may not have gone for Ehlers (who was picked 9th overall..no way he was going at #6..Nylander and Ritchie were rated higher than him).

 

Bruins took Pasternak in 2014...we took Virtanen,McCann,Demko and Tryamkin...Thats probably the best overall draft the Canucks have had since 2004.

 

Tkachuk would look good in any lineup in the NHL...we will have to wait for Juolevi to turn pro to make a real comparison..

 

Ehlers,Pasternak and Tkachuk would look good in a Canucks uniform,but hindsight cherry-picking draft picks is fruitless....29 other teams could come up with identical lists..

[JeremyCuddles]

I find it really shortsighted to call the last 3 drafts a bust. Considering most of them if not all are still around 22 or under. Simmer down there bud.

[Beary Sweet]

This is a really poorly written post. Benning has done a great job and I bet most of you would say the same of restocking our prospect pool. Virtanen, Tryamkin, Brisebois, Boeser, Gaudette, Stecher even, Neill, Lockwood and that's only a few. He has made our prospect pool respectable again if not one of the best. This team will be one of the best in the very near future and I understand why Linden has been preaching patience everytime. The Laughs, Coilers all went through the same crap we're going through right now. Next year is the year where I think we put all of the Benning picks all together and build a winner out of it. Boeser is really someone I'm looking forward to, Brisebois, Juolevi, Gaudette and so many more. I can't wait till next year when we can possibly add Hischier or Patrick into our forward prospect pool that would just add the icing on the cake. 

[chickenman92]

35 minutes ago, Honky Cat said:

We had previously drafted two small,skilled forwards in Schroeder and Hodgson..So I can see why the Canucks may not have gone for Ehlers (who was picked 9th overall..no way he was going at #6..Nylander and Ritchie were rated higher than him).

 

Bruins took Pasternak in 2014...we took Virtanen,McCann,Demko and Tryamkin...Thats probably the best overall draft the Canucks have had since 2004.

 

Tkachuk would look good in any lineup in the NHL...we will have to wait for Juolevi to turn pro to make a real comparison..

 

Ehlers,Pasternak and Tkachuk would look good in a Canucks uniform,but hindsight cherry-picking draft picks is fruitless....29 other teams could come up with identical lists..

I think if you polled people, they'd take Pastrnak over Virtanen, McCann, Demko and Tryamkin. 

 

What ticks me off the most about passing on Pastrnak is that Benning very likely played a role in scouting him for the Bruins. Heck, I imagine Benning made up the Bruins draft list and knew that if the Canucks took McCann, Boston was going to take Patrnak right after him. 

 

The Canucks very likely had McCann rated slightly higher than Pastrnak and guessed wrong. 

[chickenman92]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Look at his four first round picks with us, and outside of Boeser one could correctly argue JB missed on them.

Boeser is even debatable. Konecny was higher ranked on a lot of pre-draft polls (some people had him in the top-12) and Benning passed. 

ISS and Bob McKenzie had Konecny and Carlo higher ranked than Boeser...So far, Boeser has some ground to make up. 

 

Fun note on Konecny, he's Horvat's second cousin

[Honky Cat]

3 minutes ago, chickenman92 said:

I think if you polled people, they'd take Pastrnak over Virtanen, McCann, Demko and Tryamkin. 

 

What ticks me off the most about passing on Pastrnak is that Benning very likely played a role in scouting him for the Bruins. Heck, I imagine Benning made up the Bruins draft list and knew that if the Canucks took McCann, Boston was going to take Patrnak right after him. 

 

The Canucks very likely had McCann rated slightly higher than Pastrnak and guessed wrong. 

 

 

That would make for a good interesting poll here on CDC.....Would you trade Bennings first 4 picks of 2014 for David Pastrnak..?

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Rocksterh8 said:

 

Thats exactly where you're wrong! A good GM will find suitors and trades for even the worst players and contracts. Thats what makes the great GM's.

Not saying he's a great GM

..Just that his hand isn't good and he can't make gold out coal.  Also we are all victims of the salary cap era and the days of frequent major roster overhauls are over.  Used to be several major pieces were moved around every year by someone...Poile is the only one that seems to be doing it.  To me it seems like not many clubs are interested in doing business with us and why would they.  Our cards were spent by Gillis which is fine...It will take time to refill the deck and nitpicking over what we as fans think our players value is can be oftly different than what the market dictates.  Do you honestly think Benning did nothing last year trying to add picks for low level rental players?  He tried with Hamhuis and had one suitors mildy interested in Dallas and Vrbata played himself out of the picture completely.  Yet the CDC thinks we lost a First for Vrbata ( yes I have read that under the trade section) and at least a second in Hamhuis.  Dream on.  

[Mattrek]

People seem to forget that defencemen hit their peak at 29 and forwards hit their peak at 27 on average. Way too early to judge, but considering that we've got more draft picks in 1 year that will become NHL'ers then we had in Gillis' entire tenure I think we've been doing pretty damn great and need some perspective here.

[Rocksterh8]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Not saying he's a great GM

..Just that his hand isn't good and he can't make gold out coal.  Also we are all victims of the salary cap era and the days of frequent major roster overhauls are over.  Used to be several major pieces were moved around every year by someone...Poile is the only one that seems to be doing it.  To me it seems like not many clubs are interested in doing business with us and why would they.  Our cards were spent by Gillis which is fine...It will take time to refill the deck and nitpicking over what we as fans think our players value is can be oftly different than what the market dictates.  Do you honestly think Benning did nothing last year trying to add picks for low level rental players?  He tried with Hamhuis and had one suitors mildy interested in Dallas and Vrbata played himself out of the picture completely.  Yet the CDC thinks we lost a First for Vrbata ( yes I have read that under the trade section) and at least a second in Hamhuis.  Dream on.  

 

and if you're gonna believe everything Benning and Linden tell you, you're the perfect fan for this club. 

[spook007]

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

Ehlers, Pastrnak, and Tkatchuk would look pretty darned good in our lineup, considering JB is "transitioning the lineup" to a younger group.  

I remember the discussion here on CDC leading up to the draft, where Ehlers, Nylander, Virtanen and Richie... I was in favour of Ehlers, but could totally understand the need to draft a scorer with speed and size... all the assets that 90 % of negative posts CDC are campaigning for. He's development has been hindered by injuries amongst others, so to complain about Virtanen is nothing but ridiculous at this stage.

McCann was also most peoples wet dream at the position he was drafted, and he brought us Gudbranson.

And that brings us to Olli Juolevi... are you suggesting he is a miss??? Yes he is still developing, but he is the first proper defence talent we have drafted since Bourdon, and with all due respect calling him a miss 6 month later (he is 18) is nothing short of a joke.

And finally Boeser...

That is a decent  choice of of picks... Definitely not misses...

[smokes]

4 hours ago, Honky Cat said:

You're grasping here....Benning was not a scout in Boston..He was the AGM (should we start blaming Gilman for Gillis' poor drafting?)...Benning was a scout for the Buffalo Sabres.

And how many great players did he bring to that club?

[smokes]

3 hours ago, Beary Sweet said:

This is a really poorly written post. Benning has done a great job and I bet most of you would say the same of restocking our prospect pool. Virtanen, Tryamkin, Brisebois, Boeser, Gaudette, Stecher even, Neill, Lockwood and that's only a few. He has made our prospect pool respectable again if not one of the best. This team will be one of the best in the very future and I understand why Linden has been preaching it everytime. The Laughs, Coilers all went through the same crap we're going through right now. Next year is the year where I think we put all of the Benning picks all together and build a winner out of it. Boeser is really someone I'm looking forward to, Brisebois, Juolevi, Gaudette and so many more. I can't wait till next year when we can possibly add Hischier or Patrick into our forward prospect pool that would just add the icing on the cake. 

Lockwood is a third round pick, not too much to get excited about. Just throwing things against the wall and hope it sticks.

[Honky Cat]

7 minutes ago, smokes said:

And how many great players did he bring to that club?

Benning was Head Scout of Buffalo from 1998-2004..a six year period

 

Drew Stafford

Andej Sekera

Patrick Kaleta

Thomas Vanek

Clark MacArthur

Jan Hejda

Keith Ballard

Daniel Paille

Dennis Wideman

Derek Roy

Jason Pomenville

Paul Gaustad

Ales Kotalic

Ryan Miller

 

These players were impact players at the NHL level....Do yourself a favour and check out Vancouver Canucks drafting over a six year period 2007-12.

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

On 12/23/2016 at 8:40 PM, AlamoCanuck said:

Last 2 games really highlighted our draft woes last 10 years..... how is it we have NOT had a scouting overhaul in this time.  Yes, some have left, but the core scouting staff still in place.  Is this Aquascum management or the front office refusal to admit the scouting staff sucks and has sucked badly for the last 10 years.  Add to the point that the last few coaches have NOT been what you call.... rookie/development friendly.   I mean Magna has received more ice time than Horvat did before injuries FORCED WD to play him more last year,but then again WD likes to play 3/4th lines with 3 mins left and own by one(whole different issue that leads me to drink)... or Magna on powerplay time*facepalm*.  

 

    Anyhow.... has the scouting let us down or management when it comes to drafting/developing players?  I think scouting should shoulder most of the blame, but would be interested to hear all sides from the other fans

Don't remember the Alamo.  

[baumerman77]

5 hours ago, Team Bagues said:

I think someone who has the time should put together some information for all to decide upon - with criteria that are consistent - eg. all players who have ending up being 'good' NHLers' - or players that we think will become good players - or players that I saw play one game who looked pretty good but who actually normally stink on a relative basis (see Vrbata, Hemsky, cough - Biega).

How long was Benning in Boston? 10 years or so, but he wasn't the final decision maker in Boston.

It should be noted though that Benning was not the GM in Boston.

In many cases the CDC group are comparing apples (GM) and oranges (assistant GM).

 

5 hours ago, Honky Cat said:

You're grasping here....Benning was not a scout in Boston..He was the AGM (should we start blaming Gilman for Gillis' poor drafting?)...Benning was a scout for the Buffalo Sabres.

I agree that when we look back in Benning's career 10 or however many years from now Benning's drafting record in Vancouver should be weighted more heavily than his scouting recording in Boston, just as his scouting record in Boston should be weighted more heavily than his scouting record in Buffalo. 

 

But that's just my point. If you say because Benning didn't have final say in Buffalo or Boston (which I agree) then how can we know if he is a good scout or not? That is what I am talking about. So why are so many people assuming Benning is good at scouting? Because he was one? Big deal the Canucks had a ton of scouts and they didn't draft well under Gillis. What can we point to other than hearsay to support the notion that Benning is a great scout? I would say nothing now. Perhaps in few years we can judge his 2014, 2015 and 2016 drafting. But that's why I am saying it is a myth. There is really nothing to back it up. And if someone wants to point to Boston as evidence (even if flawed) there really isn't much to point to. Perhaps he is a good scout, but there isn't really evidence to back it up. So why do so many people think he is a great scout? Wishful thinking? Hearing what they want/hope for?

[ice orca]

4 hours ago, Beary Sweet said:

This is a really poorly written post. Benning has done a great job and I bet most of you would say the same of restocking our prospect pool. Virtanen, Tryamkin, Brisebois, Boeser, Gaudette, Stecher even, Neill, Lockwood and that's only a few. He has made our prospect pool respectable again if not one of the best. This team will be one of the best in the very future and I understand why Linden has been preaching it everytime. The Laughs, Coilers all went through the same crap we're going through right now. Next year is the year where I think we put all of the Benning picks all together and build a winner out of it. Boeser is really someone I'm looking forward to, Brisebois, Juolevi, Gaudette and so many more. I can't wait till next year when we can possibly add Hischier or Patrick into our forward prospect pool that would just add the icing on the cake. 

Not all of Benning's picks are going to make the NHL, in fact a lot wont.

[Honky Cat]

10 minutes ago, baumerman77 said:

 

I agree that when we look back in Benning's career 10 or however many years from now Benning's drafting record in Vancouver should be weighted more heavily than his scouting recording in Boston, just as his scouting record in Boston should be weighted more heavily than his scouting record in Buffalo. 

 

But that's just my point. If you say because Benning didn't have final say in Buffalo or Boston (which I agree) then how can we know if he is a good scout or not? That is what I am talking about. So why are so many people assuming Benning is good at scouting? Because he was one? Big deal the Canucks had a ton of scouts and they didn't draft well under Gillis. What can we point to other than hearsay to support the notion that Benning is a great scout? I would say nothing now. Perhaps in few years we can judge his 2014, 2015 and 2016 drafting. But that's why I am saying it is a myth. There is really nothing to back it up. And if someone wants to point to Boston as evidence (even if flawed) there really isn't much to point to. Perhaps he is a good scout, but there isn't really evidence to back it up. So why do so many people think he is a great scout? Wishful thinking? Hearing what they want/hope for?

Benning was Head Scout of Buffalo from 1998-2004..a six year period

 

Drew Stafford

Andej Sekera

Patrick Kaleta

Thomas Vanek

Clark MacArthur

Jan Hejda

Keith Ballard

Daniel Paille

Dennis Wideman

Derek Roy

Jason Pomenville

Paul Gaustad

Ales Kotalic

Ryan Miller

 

These players were impact players at the NHL level....Do yourself a favour and check out Vancouver Canucks drafting over a six year period 2007-12.

 

[xRussianrocket]

2 minutes ago, ice orca said:

Not all of Benning's picks are going to make the NHL, in fact a lot wont.

 

WHAT???

 

DISAPPOINTED!!!