CDC Partially Responsible for Canuck Team (Discussion)

[Baggins]

22 minutes ago, Aircool said:

 

You've completely missed the mark here... How many players with tangible value don't get traded at the deadline when they are on a losing team and on an expiring contract. Of courses players hit UFA, these players who aren't moved to contenders were already on contenders in the vast majority of cases... ofc there are exceptions, but this is definitely the rule. It's just the case that the price for deadline rentals has been steadily declining and Jim Benning refused to pull the trigger because he didn't understand this.

 

Vrbata intentionally gave a list he knew wouldn't be interested. Hamhuis gave only one option that had any interest and they got their first choice instead. Washing ton made an offer for Hammer but he refused to go there. NTC's are great for getting a better monetary deal but can bite you in the butt when it ciomes to moving those contracts.

[kingofsurrey]

Many of us on here have been questioning the composition of the Canucks for the last 2-3 years.

Yes, we have been scorched with negatives from the Koolaid Brigade on this site.

 

Our club is transitioning right now and it will not be pretty.

 

The sooner we dump  / trade  / buy out   our current veteran leadership group the better.  

 

Canucks right now are a group with little push back, little grit and  far to little support for their own teammates.......

 

Most Canuck fans i know can handle losing , we just want a team that shows up every game and plays hard.

Right now we do NOT have that kind of a club.

 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Baggins said:

 

Vrbata intentionally gave a list he knew wouldn't be interested. Hamhuis gave only one option that had any interest and they got their first choice instead. Washing ton made an offer for Hammer but he refused to go there. NTC's are great for getting a better monetary deal but can bite you in the butt when it ciomes to moving those contracts.

 

I can't believe the idea that Benning messed up at the TDL last year still has legs. No GM could have done anything different with these 2 guys under the same circumstances. 

[theilluminati]

26 minutes ago, Solinar said:

You know, this whole letting free agents walk for nothing thing is getting tired.  If we were going to go off of the thought that you should never let anyone go or else you're wasting assets, almost every gm in the league would be fired.  UFA's hit the market every year.  It happens, get over it.  People didn't want to buy high off of Hamhuis or Vrbata.  Hamhuis has been scratched how many times in Dallas this season?

  As for drafting, we're setting up at a pretty good rate considering we had nothing to really show for the Gillis years.  Be patient, and wait it out.  This season is about developing and giving the team a goal.  The goal should NEVER be to fail.  You should always believe that you're out there to accomplish something, not start a tire fire. 

  And, look at the Edmonton model.  We at least have identified players to mentor the ones coming in and are doing that.  

You know, this whole people posting things that they think are correct but are completely wrong is getting tired. He's playing 20 mins a game and has only missed 2 games all season and he wasn't scratched in those 2 games. He's a 34-year old d-man, missing a handful of games in a season is normal. Just out of curiousity how many games did you think he was scratched and why did you think that? You clearly didn't even bother to take the 30 seconds it would have taken to check his stats for the season.

[TheGuardian_]

1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

Reading the last 3 PGT's, has made me feel more upset with CDC than the Canucks.........

 

First Off, we as a group of fans do have a voice in the Canuck's decisions, I don't know exactly how many of us there are, but when an owner or manager of a company has a large group of their customers echoing the same message, it does send a message, and it will make a difference, in how decisions are made.

 

Unfortunately, CDC can not get their collective voices together, there are way too many rose colored glasses people on here, that confuse wishes, with fact. Too many people that compare our players only the current players of our own team, instead of looking up and looking at the teams around the league as a comparison.

 

Stepping back several years, and suggesting that the Sedin's were on a downward trend, there were far too many people that expected that these 2 great players, could easily play well into their 40's, or at the least their very late 30's at the same speed. Unfortunately, the Sedin's game, was never based on speed, but on puck control, and as they started out of their prime, you could see how opposing wingers were catching them before they got down ice, and defencemen were able to follow the cycle better, as coaching adjusted to their singular playing style. As they slowed down, it just became easier and easier to defend.

 

What bothered me about this, was not the Sedin's declining, but CDC's total blind spot, and absolute refusal to consider that this was happening.

 

Now, this fact, just didn't stop with the Sedin's, but with other aging veterans too........Hamhuis, Burrows, Vrbata, Edler, etc., were all over 30, and declining, yet CDC's love for the Sedin's made it almost impossible to see that a proper strip down rebuild needed to be done.

 

Further more, our love for Trevor (A rookie Exec.) was thought to be a magic man and squeeze water from stone, and whether Aqualini or Benning interfered with the rebuild or not, the direction, was not a committed one, nor was it singular in that direction. Again, we (CDC) ran around saying Trevor will be able to right the ship, as JOE says, "In Benning we trust!"), Benning is supposed to be a reflection of Trevor, so again, our Rose Glasses are on, as the acknowledgement to the decline, just could not been seen, by Linden and Benning, and again, CDC's voice was disjointed, and not singular.

 

If the Ownership had heard a fan base, and that is what CDC is part of clearly, their decisions may have been different, they may have accepted the continuance of selling off aging assets, and bad contracts, as they started to do with Garrison. 

 

So, looking back at the last 3 years and including this season, does any CDCer besides Debbie, actually think we are a rising team, loaded with potential? The news from CDC, is that we may, but the rest of the world doesn't...........as I have repeatedly said, " Don't bet against Vegas", 

 

Our asset management has been atrocious, letting many vets walk, or not moving them while they have value, or simply giving it away (the picks), But again, CDC did not have a  singular voice, or anything like it.

 

The funny thing is, we are slowly seeing parts of CDC jumping off the bandwagon, and moving over to the "rebuild" not "retool" side. I find it funny, that many on CDC called the "rebuild" side "tankers", are now complaining that we stemmed the tide and attempted to stay competitive, instead of allowing us to move assets and fall to the absolute bottom, where we are for the most part anyways, and not having a chance at McDavid or Matthews. There was no certainty in that, but the consolation prizes would have been much better, now we are at the mercy of a little white ball and Bettman ( who I personally don't trust).

 

Finally, to illustrate how divided, we we are on here, when Benning singed Erikkson, some looked at Erikkson as a way to prop up the Sedin's, instead of acknowledging that Erikkson, was declining also, and that collectively our aging core would not improve with his addition. (Please admit to your selves that secretly you thought Erikkson would help the Sedin's on the powerplay, and we would be competitive, and in the playoff race for the 16th spot)

 

This is a time to have a collective voice, it will be said that it is too late, and I somewhat agree, but still we all need to get onboard with our message to who ever is going to take over for Linden and Benning

 

Merry Fickin Christmas!

 

I kept the same message for the last 4 years about the direction of the team, I got pasted as some sort of traitor, yeah fun.

But even now as the team enters the worst seasons in it's history, there are fans that will still buy bridges.

[kingofsurrey]

2 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

I can't believe the idea that Benning messed up at the TDL last year still has legs. No GM could have done anything different with these 2 guys under the same circumstances. 

 

 

No GM could have done anything worse with these 2 guys under the same circumstances. 

[Baggins]

Just now, S'all Good Man said:

 

I can't believe the idea that Benning messed up at the TDL last year still has legs. No GM could have done anything different with these 2 guys under the same circumstances. 

 

Exactly. I suppose they expected Benning to put a gun to their heads and tell them accept the trade or else. Sundin flat out refused to waive his ntc in his final year there. Not much a GM can do if the player won't give viable options.

[TheGuardian_]

3 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

 

I can't believe the idea that Benning messed up at the TDL last year still has legs. No GM could have done anything different with these 2 guys under the same circumstances. 

Only the TDL last year? Man you are really marginalizing. How about last 2 TDL's and entire season's?

[kingofsurrey]

1 minute ago, Baggins said:

 

Exactly. I suppose they expected Benning to put a gun to their heads and tell them accept the trade or else. Sundin flat out refused to waive his ntc in his final year there. Not much a GM can do if the player won't give viable options.

 

Good managers find win / win solutions

 

Crappy management makes EXCUSES  about why they can not be successful.  

 

What kind of management do you think we have right now with the Canucks ? 

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 minute ago, Baggins said:

 

Exactly. I suppose they expected Benning to put a gun to their heads and tell them accept the trade or else. Sundin flat out refused to waive his ntc in his final year there. Not much a GM can do if the player won't give viable options.

 

I get what your saying Baggins, but I wonder if Benning should not have started earlier, and taken a fair value for Hamhuis, instead of waiting it out and getting squeezed out?

[Baggins]

2 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

 

 

No GM could have done anything worse with these 2 guys under the same circumstances. 

 

NTC's don't mean anything.....

NTC's don't mean anything.....

NTC's don't mean anything.....

NTC's don't mean anything.....

[kingofsurrey]

3 minutes ago, Baggins said:

 

NTC's don't mean anything.....

NTC's don't mean anything.....

NTC's don't mean anything.....

NTC's don't mean anything.....

 

 

 

Too funny.

 

Pretty sure Hamhuis agreed to waive his NTC

 

Do you actually have any kind of an intelligent point to make ?

[TheGuardian_]

Just now, Baggins said:

 

NTC's don't mean anything.....

NTC's don't mean anything.....

NTC's don't mean anything.....

NTC's don't mean anything.....

With this group, only the ones they decide mean something, Garrison, Beiska, Hamhuis didn't happen but...

So he signs Sutter, Dorsett, Eriksson and Miller to NTC/NMC's.

I guess it is who signed them that is the difference eh?

 

Oh course it is a convenient excuse NOW to be able to blame the current team on the Sedin's NMC's, not THIS management's fault, a free ride, no need to work hard in the off season, just blame the Sedin's. Very respectful.

[Baggins]

2 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

 

I get what your saying Baggins, but I wonder if Benning should not have started earlier, and taken a fair value for Hamhuis, instead of waiting it out and getting squeezed out?

 

And replace him with who at that time? We were a team with nothing in the prospect pool. The team wasn't going to intentionally tank. It's simply not in the plans and hasn't been since Linden and Benning took over. That meant waiting until it was clear we weren't a playoff team to try and move expiring deals. I honestly think they intended to re-sign Hamhuis until the Guddy deal came along.

 

Vrbata saisd he would have been far more cooperative on being moved the previous summer. But why would we move a 30 goal scorer when we're trying to compete?

[Baggins]

2 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

 

 

Too funny.

 

Pretty sure Hamhuis agreed to waive his NTC

 

Do you actually have any kind of an intelligent point to make ?

 

He did. For Anahein (no interest), Chicago (no interest), and Dallas (got their first choice instead). Washington made an offer, Hamhuis refused to go there. So what do you do? Well, YOU continue to cry about Benning letting him walk for nothing. That's burying your head in the sand and ignoring the fact Hammer used his ntc to prevent being moved.

[Baggins]

8 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

With this group, only the ones they decide mean something, Garrison, Beiska, Hamhuis didn't happen but...

So he signs Sutter, Dorsett, Eriksson and Miller to NTC/NMC's.

I guess it is who signed them that is the difference eh?

 

Oh course it is a convenient excuse NOW to be able to blame the current team on the Sedin's NMC's, not THIS management's fault, a free ride, no need to work hard in the off season, just blame the Sedin's. Very respectful.

 

I have no problem with NTC's. Which is why I don't cry about players exercising the right it gives them.

[canuckledraggin]

CDC and TSN 1040 have a symbiotic relationship. They each come up with talking points and topics to hash, re-hash and discuss ad nauseam, and they share and cherry pick ideas from one another. If your saying that every idiot with the internet and those radio dummies have a say in what happens to the team, this team is doomed to failure. Fortunately they don't, and CDC has zero effect on management and coaching decisions.

 

The video game generation is confusing the real life NHL with GM mode in the EA sports version. You overestimate the power of CDC and misjudge its usefulness to the Canucks franchise. 

 

 

[TheGuardian_]

1 minute ago, Baggins said:

 

I have no problem with NTC's. Which is why I don't cry about players exercising the right it gives them.

Neither do I, but when management starts off ignoring them and then suddenly reverses course when it suits their longevity that appears to be a little two faced to me.

I raised this "ignoring" of NTC/NMC's when Garrison was dealt as not gaining much respect throughout the league. Near the end of these deals if a player is approached prior to the TDL and told he will not be resigned the following year, I'm sure most players don't bury their heads in the sand and say no, they do need a little time though.

 

Like I posted before in the teams attempt to sell hope, if a team is a seller then it alerts even the most dense fan that they are no longer in the race for a playoff spot, so this management group waits until the very last minute to even start talking to the players and then misses the boat in the trade show.

[Dral]

I kinda like the fact that everyone has a different opinion or thoughts on whats going on and what should happen in the future... I don't agree with the overwhelming majority of whats expressed, but if I wanted to read only what I thought, I'd write a diary and read it instead of coming here....

[JM_]

52 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

 

 

No GM could have done anything worse with these 2 guys under the same circumstances. 

 

OK so what what would you have done? Its tiresome seeing people act like they could have done better, there was nothing to be done. Blame Gillis if you don't like Hammers NTC.

 

Hey Dan, wanna go to Washington? Nope Jim, I don't. OK then, thanks Dan.