CanadianRugby Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 8 minutes ago, timmylu1 said: Is that supposed to mean Benning will have success here? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 12 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said: I think this is his problem with Benning, when comparing to an actual rebuild. Looking at the top 4 rounds both years Toronto picked 4 times before we got to our 2nd pick. Vancouver Toronto Vancouver Toronto Leafs traded a late 1st,and a 2nd for 26 year old Frederik Andersson (basically,the picks they acquired for Phil Kessel)....Even the the Leafs trade picks for positions where they have a need...No different from what Benning did acquiring Baertschi and Guddy (who are both 3 years younger than Andersson). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me_ Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 41 minutes ago, appleboy said: When Benning took over he made it clear that this team did not have the 22 to 26 age players. Not on the team and no where in our system. Without that group of players you basically have to put together a team base on UFA's and AHL players. Some picks were moved out to acquire some players to fill the holes. ( not everyone has paned out) We all know about all of the NTC's and NMC which made it difficult to make quick moves. Does anyone on here think the fans in this city would have put up with a AHL team at this level??? We would have been looking at a team that would have been lucky to win 20 games a year. Toronto was a lot deeper and already had a solid group of players in the range. They are the players that are being built around. Your list makes sense but needs to be implemented based on organizational needs. This club needed to have a basic foundation put in place first. He clearly said that once the basics were put in place then they would be keeping picks and working to acquire more. I would say getting Sutter and Gudbranson were awesome moves. As the team gets better, so will they. Let's remember that Gudbranson is only 24yrs old; defensemen don't hit their stride until a bit later in their career. This team is currently much better than the stale team we've come to adore. The wins will come when Boeser scores and Demko saves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DADDYROCK Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 This idea of a new management team is uncalled for, like so many have mentioned PATIENCE is called for. We show Toronto or Edmonton and lets not forget these teams have had a decade to retool or rebuild and still haven't won bugger all.so easy does it fans. I have seen every Canucks team and I still believe in this team even thou we have never had a first overall draft pick or won the cup,I still believe.Even the Chicago cubs got their dreams answered after 108 years so maybe just maybe our dreams will come true also. It takes time and also luck to get the right pieces in place,our young players are looking better all the time,remember getting into a new job you just didn't kill it right off the bat, or run people with senority out the door. We have been getting younger since JB got here, so let him continue to scout new and promising young guys to be those right pieces for the future. Who knows we might be contenders again before the decade is out,and win a cup for WE ARE ALL CANUCKS, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 27 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said: I think this is his problem with Benning, when comparing to an actual rebuild. Looking at the top 4 rounds both years Toronto picked 4 times before we got to our 2nd pick. Vancouver Toronto Vancouver Toronto Toronto sold off players both years, 2015 because they were a very bad team missing the playoffs. The Canucks were a playoff team with 101 points and rightfully were not sellers at the deadline so it is meaningless to look at 2015 for comparison purposes. In 2016 the Leafs tanked from day one and rightfully sold off players by the deadline to match this strategy. They were not handcuffed in doing so by having NMC's and NTC's as the Canucks were. You also need to add in Gudbranson as our substitute for the 2nd round pick that we traded. Benning has legitimately had one trade deadline with the opportunity to sell players for picks. He was not successful in doing so but I seriously doubt that Hamhuis or Vrbata were going to get us picks higher than where Lockwood was taken. If we are out of playoff contention this year, as I expect we will be, I would also be disappointed if Benning did not acquire additional draft picks. Let's see how things play out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 3 minutes ago, Honky Cat said: Leafs traded a late 1st,and a 2nd for 26 year old Frederik Andersson (basically,the picks they acquired for Phil Kessel)....Even the the Leafs trade picks for positions where they have a need...No different from what Benning did acquiring Baertschi and Guddy (who are both 3 years younger than Andersson). Uhhhhhhh... yeah, they traded draft picks away... but still had 7 of them in the first four rounds! We had 2. 7 vs 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on the cycle Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 1 minute ago, CanadianRugby said: Uhhhhhhh... yeah, they traded draft picks away... but still had 7 of them in the first four rounds! We had 2. 7 vs 2. Math is hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canada Hockey Place Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 The thing that concerns me most about the current management group is the trend of counter- productive moves. Like, I think in hindsight Sutter and Gudbranson look like counter productive moves given the emergence of Horvat, Tryamkin and Stecher. Also I feel most/maybe all of the moves have weakened Utica. To be clear by counter productive, I mean impeding the natural development of the system in general. The accelerated development thing they were trying to sell is/was a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davathor Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 I think flipping management again is just going to keep us in mediocrity longer... Benning was brought in because of his drafting abilities and experience with Boston. Replacing him now is just going to leave another guy with someone else's half finished plan, kind of how we are now. Gillis traded to win now, and Benning is left to try and build a team for the approaching post-sedin era. Coaching on the other hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 10 minutes ago, Rick Blight said: Toronto sold off players both years, 2015 because they were a very bad team missing the playoffs. The Canucks were a playoff team with 101 points and rightfully were not sellers at the deadline so it is meaningless to look at 2015 for comparison purposes. In 2016 the Leafs tanked from day one and rightfully sold off players by the deadline to match this strategy. They were not handcuffed in doing so by having NMC's and NTC's as the Canucks were. You also need to add in Gudbranson as our substitute for the 2nd round pick that we traded. Benning has legitimately had one trade deadline with the opportunity to sell players for picks. He was not successful in doing so but I seriously doubt that Hamhuis or Vrbata were going to get us picks higher than where Lockwood was taken. If we are out of playoff contention this year, as I expect we will be, I would also be disappointed if Benning did not acquire additional draft picks. Let's see how things play out. You no you are wasting young breath , because they all have their Toronto rose colored glasses on. Hamhuis cost this club nothing in assets and played a lot of good years for us. He did not want to leave and had the contract to make it so. Just like the twins, he earned it. The only thing that I wanted done differently was at the end of last year. I was upset that they did not let the team slide to the bottom. Those 3 wins at the end of the year may have cost us a franchise player. Maybe they learned a lesson from it. Or it is just not in their DNA to purposely lose, even for a few games. I get the impression that most fans have already written off Virtannen and Juolevi. If Boeser does not become an impact player in his first year they will call him a bust also. The fans in this city are all about now and have 0 patience. Tkachuk is putting up numbers and that is all they see. Poolparty has had a slow start for Edmonton but may be one of the better players as he develops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honky Cat Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 14 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said: Uhhhhhhh... yeah, they traded draft picks away... but still had 7 of them in the first four rounds! We had 2. 7 vs 2. As Rick Blight noted,the Canucks were handcuffed by NMC" and NTC's (and still are) and possibly the owner...The fire sale was never going to happen here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 7 minutes ago, Canada Hockey Place said: The thing that concerns me most about the current management group is the trend of counter- productive moves. Like, I think in hindsight Sutter and Gudbranson look like counter productive moves given the emergence of Horvat, Tryamkin and Stecher. Also I feel most/maybe all of the moves have weakened Utica. To be clear by counter productive, I mean impeding the natural development of the system in general. The accelerated development thing they were trying to sell is/was a joke. Gillis impeded that natural development by sucking it dry for the short term gain. The damage was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Blight Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 8 minutes ago, appleboy said: You no you are wasting young breath , because they all have their Toronto rose colored glasses on. Hamhuis cost this club nothing in assets and played a lot of good years for us. He did not want to leave and had the contract to make it so. Just like the twins, he earned it. The only thing that I wanted done differently was at the end of last year. I was upset that they did not let the team slide to the bottom. Those 3 wins at the end of the year may have cost us a franchise player. Maybe they learned a lesson from it. Or it is just not in their DNA to purposely lose, even for a few games. I get the impression that most fans have already written off Virtannen and Juolevi. If Boeser does not become an impact player in his first year they will call him a bust also. The fans in this city are all about now and have 0 patience. Tkachuk is putting up numbers and that is all they see. Poolparty has had a slow start for Edmonton but may be one of the better players as he develops. At that point in the season it was difficult to watch those three games that we all thought they would/should lose. However, I don't think we can attach blame to anyone for those wins. The players will always try to win as they are playing for their jobs and pride, so I can't blame them. The same team had just lost 10 games in a row so it is pretty hard to blame management for not making lineup changes. To the contrary, had they made changes and the team won there would have been outrage on CDC for their bonehead move. The unfortunate lottery results just made the whole thing seem worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 16 minutes ago, Honky Cat said: As Rick Blight noted,the Canucks were handcuffed by NMC" and NTC's (and still are) and possibly the owner...The fire sale was never going to happen here. Didn't have a problem trading Garrison (even though he didn't want to waive his NTC). But if you're a terrible enough GM that it's impossible for you to acquire a draft pick, then that's even more of a reason not to trade away any picks if you're rebuilding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 2 hours ago, Salacious Crumb said: @Alflives is the yin to @oldnews yang. The resident Waldorf and Statler of cdc. all out of pluses but anyone that compares me to one of those top tier old-timers deserves one. I'll be back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 4 hours ago, Alflives said: The TO rebuild started after JB and TL arrived here. I hate the Leafs, and think they suck socks. They purposely tanked two seasons in a row to get the highest picks possible. now both those picks are contributing to their team, and are their best players. Drinking? TO has been rebuilding a long time. When was the last time they made the playoffs? Burke tried to speed up the build trading two 1st's and a 2nd for Kessel. He would have been better off with the picks. Two young stars are better than one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 4 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said: Didn't have a problem trading Garrison (even though he didn't want to waive his NTC). But if you're a terrible enough GM that it's impossible for you to acquire a draft pick, then that's even more of a reason not to trade away any picks if you're rebuilding. Lets say they decide to move out the rest of the vets. If they force them and if they can find trade partners. What do you want in return? Draft picks or players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 4 minutes ago, appleboy said: Lets say they decide to move out the rest of the vets. If they force them and if they can find trade partners. What do you want in return? Draft picks or players? Does not matter as picks could be traded to other teams for prospects or vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianRugby Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 7 minutes ago, appleboy said: Lets say they decide to move out the rest of the vets. If they force them and if they can find trade partners. What do you want in return? Draft picks or players? Picks unless you get a prospect you really want. In the meantime should have lots of cap room (no reason for signings like Eriksson) so you can add 2nd/3rd line players through free agency. Though the only type of free agent I'd target is someone great in the locker room or someone that will stand up for the youngsters on the team. That said, this should have happened 3 years ago. Now too many assets are either over the hill or already left the team. This team is what it is and will be for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appleboy Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 1 minute ago, CanadianRugby said: Picks unless you get a prospect you really want. In the meantime should have lots of cap room (no reason for signings like Eriksson) so you can add 2nd/3rd line players through free agency. Though the only type of free agent I'd target is someone great in the locker room or someone that will stand up for the youngsters on the team. So , who would you move and what will your team look like? You need to ice a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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