Laine gets rocked

[riffraff]

15 minutes ago, Mackcanuck said:

Here is a clip

Not sure how late this is, can't see how far away the puck is the puck is.

Tram had to leave for the dressing room for 10 minutes

The Flames scored twice while he was gone!

Yes.

 

this is what I thought.  Hard to know where the puck was/is/for how long in this gif.  From what I remember during the the game, the hit seemed to be a legit hockey play.

[gino#29]

5 hours ago, riffraff said:

Yes.

 

this is what I thought.  Hard to know where the puck was/is/for how long in this gif.  From what I remember during the the game, the hit seemed to be a legit hockey play.

if the hit wasn't late you'd see the puck in the gif.love hitting but sick of the floating rule book.

[riffraff]

48 minutes ago, gino#29 said:

if the hit wasn't late you'd see the puck in the gif.love hitting but sick of the floating rule book.

If he was passing the puck or clearing it along the boards you wouldn't see the puck from that angle.

[gino#29]

1 minute ago, riffraff said:

If he was passing the puck or clearing it along the boards you wouldn't see the puck from that angle.

fair enough,at any rate it would only had been a minor for interfernce.i'd never want the big hits out of the game.

[McBackup]

Clean hit. Pretty disgusted in Scheifele after the play. Its one thing to stick up for your teammates, another thing to mug a guy who isn't ready for it.

 

Maybe he was just frustrated he was the one who gave him the suicide pass.

[SabreFan1]

10 hours ago, Bitter Melon said:

Clean hit. Pretty disgusted in Scheifele after the play. Its one thing to stick up for your teammates, another thing to mug a guy who isn't ready for it.

 

Maybe he was just frustrated he was the one who gave him the suicide pass.

 

McCabe's face was already f'd up since he smashed it into Laine's head when they collided.  It actually turned out to be a good thing that he jumped McCabe.  McCabe was able to coverup after dropping to the ice.

[pluralsight]

On 1/10/2017 at 8:55 AM, riffraff said:

Yes.

 

this is what I thought.  Hard to know where the puck was/is/for how long in this gif.  From what I remember during the the game, the hit seemed to be a legit hockey play.

 

It was a late hit, just like most of Ferkland's hits:

 

 

 

As per the province, the NHL considers a late hit as one that comes in 0.6 seconds after the player doesn't have the puck. This one clocked in at around 0.75 seconds. As you can see Tryamkin gets rid of the puck as soon as he gets it on his backhand. Luckily this didn't intimidate the big man, as he returned and finished the game quite strong. 

 

EDIT: the gif I had seems to be broken. But in the pic I posted instead, Tryamkin has already gotten rid of the puck at that point, and you can see where Ferkland us. 

[riffraff]

5 hours ago, pluralsight said:

 

It was a late hit, just like most of Ferkland's hits:

 

 

 

As per the province, the NHL considers a late hit as one that comes in 0.6 seconds after the player doesn't have the puck. This one clocked in at around 0.75 seconds. As you can see Tryamkin gets rid of the puck as soon as he gets it on his backhand. Luckily this didn't intimidate the big man, as he returned and finished the game quite strong. 

 

EDIT: the gif I had seems to be broken. But in the pic I posted instead, Tryamkin has already gotten rid of the puck at that point, and you can see where Ferkland us. 

 

I understand everyone's frustration but no ref is going to be able to distinguish 0.6 secs vs 0.75 lol.

 

id rather we just return the favour and be .15 secs late on a hit

 

because to be quite honest I'm sick of the "refs will save us" mentality that should have died with the 2011 cup run, when We actually had a power play and when the bruins smacked us into a loss.  It's about time most fans list this mentality too.  It would be far less painful for them/you,

 

wow.  .15secs.  Please.

[pluralsight]

39 minutes ago, riffraff said:

 

I understand everyone's frustration but no ref is going to be able to distinguish 0.6 secs vs 0.75 lol.

 

id rather we just return the favour and be .15 secs late on a hit

 

because to be quite honest I'm sick of the "refs will save us" mentality that should have died with the 2011 cup run, when We actually had a power play and when the bruins smacked us into a loss.  It's about time most fans list this mentality too.  It would be far less painful for them/you,

 

wow.  .15secs.  Please.

 

No one is counting the seconds, I just pointed it out in case the eye test wasn't enough for you. If an NHL ref can't see that it's a late hit then we have bigger problems to worry about, especially when he is feet away. The optics sure look bad in the 2011 Cup Run with Daniel Sedin being a punching bag for Marchand. I'm sure you probably would have preferred that Sedin didn't take the high road and just sucker him back and I would have agreed with you. But I think the majority of people are on your side and use the 2011 Cup loss as an excuse to "get tougher". The Canucks did tried to physically intimidate early on in that series, despite it not being their style of play. Hamhuis tried the hip check on Lucic, gets injured - out for the series. IMO if Hamhuis was in for the next 6 games, I think it would have been a different series. Rome steps up on Horton when the Canucks were up 1-0 in game 3 (leading the series 2-0), gets suspended for the rest of the series. That is probably the turning point right there. The Canucks could have easily won the Cup if Luongo had just ONE decent game in Boston but he didn't. Also, Tim Thomas was unreal in the series - well deserving of the Conn Smythe trophy. 

 

The Canucks need more speed and skill, plain and simple. You ask for more plugs like Ferkland on this team, I guarantee you'll be the one in PGTs after a loss wondering where all the scoring went. We're 22nd in the league in goal scoring, the league is trending towards a skill game where everyone has to be able to skate and contribute on the scoresheet. Wasn't Colton Orr an NHL regular only a couple of season ago? Now I don't even think he's playing pro hockey anymore. 

[riffraff]

9 minutes ago, pluralsight said:

 

No one is counting the seconds, I just pointed it out in case the eye test wasn't enough for you. If an NHL ref can't see that it's a late hit then we have bigger problems to worry about, especially when he is feet away. The optics sure look bad in the 2011 Cup Run with Daniel Sedin being a punching bag for Marchand. I'm sure you probably would have preferred that Sedin didn't take the high road and just sucker him back and I would have agreed with you. But I think the majority of people are on your side and use the 2011 Cup loss as an excuse to "get tougher". The Canucks did tried to physically intimidate early on in that series, despite it not being their style of play. Hamhuis tried the hip check on Lucic, gets injured - out for the series. IMO if Hamhuis was in for the next 6 games, I think it would have been a different series. Rome steps up on Horton when the Canucks were up 1-0 in game 3 (leading the series 2-0), gets suspended for the rest of the series. That is probably the turning point right there. The Canucks could have easily won the Cup if Luongo had just ONE decent game in Boston but he didn't. Also, Tim Thomas was unreal in the series - well deserving of the Conn Smythe trophy. 

 

The Canucks need more speed and skill, plain and simple. You ask for more plugs like Ferkland on this team, I guarantee you'll be the one in PGTs after a loss wondering where all the scoring went. We're 22nd in the league in goal scoring, the league is trending towards a skill game where everyone has to be able to skate and contribute on the scoresheet. Wasn't Colton Orr an NHL regular only a couple of season ago? Now I don't even think he's playing pro hockey anymore. 

 

Every team has plugs. The Canucks are no different.  But our plugs literally do nothing.

 

i really don't see how when taking into account the state of our team right now in its development, any knowledgeable and non biased fan wouldn't want a player like ferkland to be on the right side of physical aggression.

 

i already know where all the scoring went.  It died with the sedins and has absolutely nothing to do with guys like ferkland which every team wants, needs, and should have.

 

edit

 

ferlands value is not in scoring. I'm sure you watched the last playoffs where he singlehandedly unhinged a veteran playoff roster.

[pluralsight]

2 minutes ago, riffraff said:

 

Every team has plugs. The Canucks are no different.  But our plugs literally do nothing.

 

i really don't see how when taking into account the state of our team right now in its development, any knowledgeable and non biased fan wouldn't want a player like ferkland to be on the right side of physical aggression.

 

i already know where all the scoring went.  It died with the sedins and has absolutely nothing to do with guys like ferkland which every team wants, needs, and should have.

 

What does Ferkland have to do with the Sedins? If you're talking about the lack of scoring, Ferkland certainly won't help you there. It sounds like you're the type of guy who would just be happy with leading the hit board 30 to 10 but lose the game 3-1, you know, those moral victories. 

[riffraff]

15 minutes ago, pluralsight said:

 

What does Ferkland have to do with the Sedins? If you're talking about the lack of scoring, Ferkland certainly won't help you there. It sounds like you're the type of guy who would just be happy with leading the hit board 30 to 10 but lose the game 3-1, you know, those moral victories. 

 

i was responding to your suggestion that I would be on "the  pgt complaining about lack of scoring".....you made it sound like having plugs on the team like ferkland would be the cause of that.

 

and I said:  we have no scoring. Because the sedins don't do that like they used to not because of bottom six players who aren't looked upon to generate offence.

 

you either forgot what you suggested, or I misread what you said.

 

either way now you're putting words in my mouth saying that I'd rather moral victories circa one night in LA rather than overall success when really all I've said and ever have said if you check up some of my post history is:

 

this team has been too soft for too long.  Specifically in the top six.

 

anyway way I'm done here.  We've gone around in circles in another thread.  I just don't think things are or will work out between us. 

[pluralsight]

1 minute ago, riffraff said:

 

i was responding to your suggestion that I would be on "the  pgt complaining about lack of scoring".....you made it sound like having plugs on the team like ferkland would be the cause of that.

 

and I said:  we have no scoring. Because the sedins don't do that like they used to not because of bottom six players who aren't looked upon to generate offence.

 

you either forgot what you suggested, or I misread what you said.

 

either way now you're putting words in my mouth saying that I'd rather moral victories circa one night in LA rather than overall success when really all I've said and ever have said if you check up some of my post history is:

 

this team has been too soft for too long.  Specifically in the top six.

 

anyway way I'm done here.  We've gone around in circles in another thread.  I just don't think things are or will work out between us. 

 

That's fine, clearly you and I have different opinions on how one builds a team. Luckily we will see which type of team the Canucks will be shortly after the Sedins are out of the picture in a couple of years. If the Canucks win the cup building and playing like an LA or Boston, kudos to you good sir. I'm rooting for a Blackhawks/Penguins type of team to bring it all in. 

[riffraff]

13 minutes ago, pluralsight said:

 

That's fine, clearly you and I have different opinions on how one builds a team. Luckily we will see which type of team the Canucks will be shortly after the Sedins are out of the picture in a couple of years. If the Canucks win the cup building and playing like an LA or Boston, kudos to you good sir. I'm rooting for a Blackhawks/Penguins type of team to bring it all in. 

Again.

 

ive not said I want an la Boston clone.  I said, imo, it's about balance.  Boston still had skilled players.  La had gaborik, toffoli etc.  Chicago is probably the only team that has one purely with skill the last time they won.  But the first time they won they had several physical players.

 

so to think that a purely skilled only team is consistently going to contend for the cup is not realistic or historically proven.  Furthermore, the penguins do not play in the west, and this is a critical point.  Winning the cup as a Canucks franchise is about surviving  the first three rounds and making it to the finals as healthy as possible.  The eastern teams simply don't play in as physical a conference or deal with the travel the western teams do, which also contributes to fatigue and injury especially for smaller teams.

[pluralsight]

2 minutes ago, riffraff said:

Again.

 

ive not said I want an la Boston clone.  I said, imo, it's about balance.  Boston still had skilled players.  La had gaborik, toffoli etc.  Chicago is probably the only team that has one purely with skill the last time they won.  But the first time they won they had several physical players.

 

so to think that a team is consistently going to contend for the cup is not realistic or historically proven.  Furthermore, the penguins do not play on the west, and this is a critical point.  Winning the cup as a Canucks franchise is about surviving the the first three rounds and making it to the finals as healthy as possible.  The eastern teams simply don't play in as physical a conference or deal with the travel the western teams do, which also contributes to fatigue and injury especially for smaller teams.

 

That's a fair point, travel does have a big factor on this for sure. As for the physicality, this could very well change in the next 3-5 years depending on how the young guys in each conference turn out. I know you didn't mention that you wanted a Boston or LA clone but those were just the two most recent cup winners that sounded like they fit your mold. I am just curious, but currently which team(s) do you think have the best balance of skill and physicality (and also has a good chance to compete for the cup)? 

[Borvat]

53 minutes ago, riffraff said:

 

Every team has plugs. The Canucks are no different.  But our plugs literally do nothing.

 

i really don't see how when taking into account the state of our team right now in its development, any knowledgeable and non biased fan wouldn't want a player like ferkland to be on the right side of physical aggression.

 

i already know where all the scoring went.  It died with the sedins and has absolutely nothing to do with guys like ferkland which every team wants, needs, and should have.

 

edit

 

ferlands value is not in scoring. I'm sure you watched the last playoffs where he singlehandedly unhinged a veteran playoff roster.

 

The only issue with your point is that Ferland would be suspended (repeat offender by now) if he were a Canuck.  If a Canuck was doing what Ferland got away with last year in the playoffs (to Johnny Crabcakes and their stars), he would have spent most of his time in the penalty box  

[riffraff]

7 minutes ago, Borvat said:

 

The only issue with your point is that Ferland would be suspended (repeat offender by now) if he were a Canuck.  If a Canuck was doing what Ferland got away with last year in the playoffs (to Johnny Crabcakes and their stars), he would have spent most of his time in the penalty box  

 

All I can say to this is:

 

its debateable at best if you buy into the conspiracy theories.  I don't.  Objective viewing has shown several calls going our way this year, last game being a prime example.  

 

The fundamental of physicality and intimidation in the NHL is not debateable however.

[Borvat]

Just now, riffraff said:

 

All I can say to this is:

 

its debateable at best if you buy into the conspiracy theories.  I don't.  Objective viewing has shown several calls going our way this year, last game being a prime example.  

 

The fundamental of physicality and intimidation in the NHL is not debateable however.

 

I don't view it as a conspiracy theory.  It's more what recent history has shown.  I don't want to get into the events or specifics.  It's just a matter of opinion and we likely won't agree.  I don't disagree with the Canucks need for more push back and physical play, I want to see more of it on a regular basis as well.

[riffraff]

36 minutes ago, pluralsight said:

 

That's a fair point, travel does have a big factor on this for sure. As for the physicality, this could very well change in the next 3-5 years depending on how the young guys in each conference turn out. I know you didn't mention that you wanted a Boston or LA clone but those were just the two most recent cup winners that sounded like they fit your mold. I am just curious, but currently which team(s) do you think have the best balance of skill and physicality (and also has a good chance to compete for the cup)? 

 

First of all I think it seems that you along with many here either ignore or don't see the LA and Boston cup teams skill.  Posters here are hung up on lucic, Thornton, Dustin brown and Jordan Nolan.  The reality is/was aside from Thornton and maybe Nolan, the rest could contribute offensively and did so.

 

i can't remember the exact stat but I think Boston had the most 10-20 goal scorers on their roster that year.  Guys like Bergeron, kreci, Marchand, seidenberg were/are great skilled players. Lucic was the best power forward in the league at the time.  Their key wasn't in goonery it was a few guys who played to their size/agression skill set and that allowed the rest of the team to "play bigger".  I can't recall any team with a pack mentality like they had.

 

When LA won they still had:

 

Dustin brown (physical and skilled at the time)

Doughty

gaborik

kopitar

carter

Richardd

 toffolli

williams (one of the most clutch playoff guys in modern hockey)

 

What makes La so effective (at the time) was the rest of the roster was very hard to play against and wore teams down with sustained offensive zone pressure and relentless forecheck.  Al this also allowed the dcore to flourish with minimal wear and tear.

 

to say that this is not a desirable "contending mold" makes zero sense imo.

 

So I don't buy into the theory that some people have that falsely represents these teams as "just plodding brut teams with no skill"

 

Right now to answer your question regarding currently well balanced teams:

 

id have to go with:

 

st Louis as usual.  Goal tender required. As usual.

 

 

Montreal.  Although on the more skilled side I think the trade for Weber, and the signing of proven playoff performer Andrew Shaw gives them an edge they didn't have before.

 

rangers

 

hawks. Obviously.

 

capitals.  I thought they had a great chance last year and had them picked to win.  

 

Jets are in the right path. Need consistent goaltending.

 

ducks.

 

i haven't watched San Jose enough yet this year.  I hate the sharks.

 

Likewise I haven't watched the penguins much this year.

 

for some reason I would expect the wild to choke 

 

thats about all I have.

 

edit

 

i actually like the mould we are creating.  That's more important as a long time fan than chasing another franchise model.  I want the Canucks to have their own identity.  I think they will.  But part of that is a required improvement in top six stature.

 

 

[pluralsight]

34 minutes ago, riffraff said:

 

First of all I think it seems that you along with many here either ignore or don't see the LA and Boston cup teams skill.  Posters here are hung up on lucic, Thornton, Dustin brown and Jordan Nolan.  The reality is/was aside from Thornton and maybe Nolan, the rest could contribute offensively and did so.

 

i can't remember the exact stat but I think Boston had the most 10-20 goal scorers on their roster that year.  Guys like Bergeron, kreci, Marchand, seidenberg were/are great skilled players. Lucic was the best power forward in the league at the time.  Their key wasn't in goonery it was a few guys who played to their size/agression skill set and that allowed the rest of the team to "play bigger".  I can't recall any team with a pack mentality like they had.

 

When LA won they still had:

 

Dustin brown (physical and skilled at the time)

Doughty

gaborik

kopitar

carter

Richardd

 toffolli

williams (one of the most clutch playoff guys in modern hockey)

 

What makes La so effective (at the time) was the rest of the roster was very hard to play against and wore teams down with sustained offensive zone pressure and relentless forecheck.  Al this also allowed the dcore to flourish with minimal wear and tear.

 

to say that this is not a desirable "contending mold" makes zero sense imo.

 

So I don't buy into the theory that some people have that falsely represents these teams as "just plodding brut teams with no skill"

 

Right now to answer your question regarding currently well balanced teams:

 

id have to go with:

 

st Louis as usual.  Goal tender required. As usual.

 

 

Montreal.  Although on the more skilled side I think the trade for Weber, and the signing of proven playoff performer Andrew Shaw gives them an edge they didn't have before.

 

rangers

 

hawks. Obviously.

 

capitals.  I thought they had a great chance last year and had them picked to win.  

 

Jets are in the right path. Need consistent goaltending.

 

ducks.

 

i haven't watched San Jose enough yet this year.  I hate the sharks.

 

Likewise I haven't watched the penguins much this year.

 

for some reason I would expect the wild to choke 

 

thats about all I have.

 

edit

 

i actually like the mould we are creating.  That's more important as a long time fan than chasing another franchise model.  I want the Canucks to have their own identity.  I think they will.  But part of that is a required improvement in top six stature.

 

 

 

You're wrong there, I never did once mention that those teams didn't have skill. I just mentioned they played a physical brand, but I never ignored the fact that they had skill - not entirely sure why you have to be so defensive over there. There's no way you win a cup with just physicality. As mentioned you need skill, physicality, speed, solid defense, timely scoring and great goaltending - all at the same time to win a cup. I appreciate you answering my question and there are some thoughtful answers - but I find that you contradict yourself a few times. Anyway, I'm not going to get into it further because we'll be going around in circles as you mentioned.