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Sedin Struggles (Poll)


Adarsh Sant

Sedin's Ice Time  

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Watching the Sedins last night was painful. I have been one of their biggest supporters for years but now it seem like everytime they get the puck its the same thing, they get it in deep and try to work the cycle game. Which in its day worked great, but the Sedins are no longer fast or strong enough to win the puck battles along the boards to make the cycle game work. Whether it was on the power play or on 5v5 they consistently lost the puck along the boards. The 1st PP is stagnant with little to no movement from the players on the ice to open anything up. 

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Sedins will be fine, yes they are in a bit of a slump right now but that’s all it is, they aren’t the only stars that are struggling in the west either, Kopitar only has 4 goals and 20 points, Toews only has 19 points.  The twins have too much determination to just roll over and die, they may not be ppg players but they still will put over 50 points for us this season. 

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Sedins looked awful last night and the game before, Hank did show some effort but not enough and Eriksson looked worse than he did with Sutter or whoever else he was lined up with.  Where's that chemistry the Swedes had in the world cup?  It's so odd to see the Skille-Chaput-Gaunce line having the most scoring opportunities last night.

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9 hours ago, RRypien37 said:

People, they are 36 years old. Not everyone can pull a Thornton at this age.


They are slowing down and have been on a steady decline for the past 2-3 years. 

 

Thornton's enjoying whatever "juice" beverage Jagr is on. 

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They just aren't first line players anymore. It's pretty simple to see. They can't keep up with the speed or the physicality of the game anymore.

 

It might have something to do with being pummeled for essentially their whole career, without giving back some. The body has a finite amount of abuse it can take, and I think that theirs have hit the limit. And when the body is being pushed beyond it's capability, the mind suffers as well. If they had either chosen to fight back, or been given a strong and fierce enough winger, in their prime, this probably could have been staved off some. But time and the toll of being targets of physicality have definitely caught up with them.

 

The sooner the brass and coaching staff see this and concede to significantly lessening their overall TOI, the more icetime will be available to the more capable members of the roster.

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The Sedins are what they are now...serviceable second-liners.  They are defensive liabilities most of the time and when they aren't producing goals, they're not much good to the team (other than the locker-room leadership they bring).  As Nuxfan has alluded to, the next 15 months is essentially the countdown to when the real rebuild starts. So sad to say, but the reality as I see it is that until the Sedins are done, this is going to be as good as it's going to get (i.e., marginal .500 hockey club).  After watching the Sedins play out the next 15 months, the pain of watching Eriksson play out the next 4 years is going to be Vrbata-like.

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I am amazed at how the Sedins seem unwilling to adapt their cycle game considering that it is obvious that most teams have figured it out. Danny passes to Henrik, Henrik back to Danny and round about we go. D-men just take one brother out of the equation and that forces a turnover, often teams interfere when they do this but since this is rarely called it seems that the obvious thing is to adapt and change the style of play. Maybe the easiest is to pass to someone else, look to the point or get away from the corners and the boards and move the play more towards the shooting lanes.

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4 minutes ago, GarthButcher5 said:

I am amazed at how the Sedins seem unwilling to adapt their cycle game considering that it is obvious that most teams have figured it out. Danny passes to Henrik, Henrik back to Danny and round about we go. D-men just take one brother out of the equation and that forces a turnover, often teams interfere when they do this but since this is rarely called it seems that the obvious thing is to adapt and change the style of play. Maybe the easiest is to pass to someone else, look to the point or get away from the corners and the boards and move the play more towards the shooting lanes.

 

Can't teach old dogs new tricks, Butch.  Unless your name is Steve Yzerman.  Father time even caught up with Gretzky.

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Just now, bigbadcanucks said:

 

Can't teach old dogs new tricks, Butch.  Unless your name is Steve Yzerman.  Father time even caught up with Gretzky.

 

SJS has paired old slow Joe with speedier wingers that are good shooters. Without a doubt these guys shouldn't be on the same line anymore but that would mess up everyone else's chemistry.

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We don't have a first line. 

 

The improvement of Bo Horvat has been wonderful this year, but it's unlikely that he will be truly competitive when you compare him to more prototypical 1st line centers (at least the top half of the examples out there).  Personally I think they should keep doing what they're doing and let him continue to develop rather than putting even more pressure on him to be the first line center (because we don't have anyone better on the roster).

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First off give them a better winger...or if that isn't possible split them up.  A bit redundant given the replies but both the Sedins are world class passers and would benefit any line.  We could end up with three quality second lines which would be hard to defend against instead of the two we have now.  When Hansen gets back that should help too.  Also their minutes shouldn't go over 18 the rest of the year or we could see them run out of gas as they did under Torts.

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It's a bit of a slump right now, but it's also time catching up to them.

 

Teams have known what the Sedins are trying to do since their 2nd or 3rd year in the league, the difference was in their prime they were so precise and good at it that there wasn't much you could do to stop it.

 

They're just aren't able to create those little lanes for eachother as easily, or get open as quickly off the picks they set. The passes aren't as crisp. It's only takes a split-second for a scoring chance to become nothing.

 

But I'd be happy to see them continue to put up 35-45 points in a lesser role, except they are starting to show their age in their own end. I don't think the Sedins have ever been negative plus/minus players the way they have been this year. They are losing puck battles they'd never lose before. Bad puck decisions. I hope that is more a result of fatigue and if they do drop down in minutes that they can play better minutes.

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11 hours ago, baumerman77 said:

How about giving the Sedins a decent winger?

 

That'd be great if we had any suitable ones that aren't on the IR.

 

10 hours ago, oldnews said:

It's a tough spot because the next best option after Hansen - Sutter - it's just too important to leave him on his own matchup line.

 

And I think that despite Loui being the 3rd best option, I'd stick with the LE Sutter Granlund line and lean on them more. 

 

Which unfortunately leaves the Sedins with a bottom six linemate - although at this point I'd be tempted to move Burrows up with them and let Bo and Baer carry their own line with a lesser winger like Megna.  Somehow I imagine they'll continue to produce nevertheless, but perhaps it's their turn to give up their winger.

 

Anyhow - Hansen imo is one of the three most important forwards on this club right now - with Horvat and Sutter - and he's a huge loss the effectively makes this team a two as opposed to 3 line team.

 

At this point I think I'd try this:

 

Sedin Sedin Burrows

Eriksson Sutter Granlund

Baertschi Horvat Boucher/Megna

Gaunce Chaput Skille

 

And to be clear - no disrespect to Rodin but I simply don't believe he's healthy enough to play - and I don't see any point in risking a further setback with him - otherwise he's clearly a good option on the Baer Bo line.

 

This ^^^^!!!!

 

Given our schedule, short of an injury forcing things, I doubt Boucher gets in until he gets another full practice. So that's likely NJD on Sunday at the EARLIEST (if we squeeze in a practice this Fri/Sat) and more likely, not until the FLA game next Fri.

 

7 hours ago, mll said:

 

Skille was tried with those two and they were totally unproductive and even looked disconnected.  Baer and Horvat have different playing styles and it's Burrows that is making the link between the two right now.  I think it's a very poor idea to remove him from their line.  They are trying to develop these players - I think it's critical that they play with a veteran that can help them take that next step with consistency.  

 

Then of course there's MLL's very valid concern of disrupting the chemistry of the one line that's largely been putting up offense lately.

 

It's certainly a risk. But given the alternatives of a not up to par Megna, a still ineffective on that line Eriksson (and in turn worse Sutter line) and Hansen/Dorsett not on the horizon, I think it's worth the risk for a few games to see if we can't have 3 effective lines rather than two (or even worse, like last night, only one). It certainly beats any present alternatives.

 

If it's not working, we can always put Burr back on Horvat's wing and revert to 2 working lines and a limping Sedin line until Hansen is back..

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I went with "same amount" and "no" as my answers. 

 

One option which was missing from both polls is to go with the hot hand. That is the option I would have picked for both questions. 

 

I'm a believer that the Canucks don't have a first line, but rather, three 2/3 lines - which isn't good and the likely reason they struggle to score, but that's a different story. 

 

Anyways, to get back on track, I believe that whichever line is playing the best on a given night should play the most and on most night's, that's Horvat's line. The Sedin's still have flashes of greatness from time-to-time, so if they are going, play them. I think Sutter's line should for the most part be the third option.  

 

One thing to watch going forward is how teams match their D against the Canucks. I'd imaging up until now the Sedins have seen the opposition's top pair. With Horvat breaking out, will he start to see the top pair going forward. 

 

Two questions I'm curious to see how they are answered the second half are, will the the Sedins increase their offence the second half of the season if they're seeing more second pairing matchups and how will Horvat's production be impacted if he's seeing a steady dose of top-pairing type guys. 

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12 hours ago, Type R said:

At the very least, split them up.  Daniel needs to be shaken up, and I think Henrik could do without having to worry about Danny's struggles while on the same line.

Came here to say this.  They should be on separate power play units for sure.  I would be okay with keeping them together at full strength if as OP suggested they are deployed as a third line.  Would this type of deployment not also give them better match ups against worse D pairings?  

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The team is tired and needs a boost. Put in Pedan for the hurting/ailing Tanev and Boucher in for Megna. Try Bouch on the 2nd unit PP. ENERGIZE.

PUT TRYAMKING ON THE 2nd UNIT PP. 

We've tried Tanev/Baer/Sutter on point. time for Plan D, lets send Tryamkin into the slot because he'll draw 2 players to block him.  Last night we had WEAK net front presence in our PP.

In OT last night the defenseman easily released Granlund in front of the net when he saw a 2 on none in the making.

If it was Tryamkin he would have been too preoccupied to release on big Try to look for the counter.

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