Future is better than most see it

[ice orca]

6 hours ago, orcasgonewild said:

U think gaudette will be a future 4th liner u crazy. He's gonna be our future number 2 centre. I do like those lines tho. 

You really overate Gaudette. In what world is he better than Sutter or Horvat who are 2nd line centers. Like most fan bases most prospects get grossly overated.

[oldnews]

2 hours ago, billabong said:

I have no reason to believe he won't. I truly hope he does because we need him insanely bad in our system. But I'm not slotting him in till he signs a contract

 

 

You're correct. I heard the numbnuts on the radio talking about his 4th year next year so I just went with it 

 

If that compensation pick isn't a 1st rounder then it don't mean squat. 

 

If i was a betting man, I'd say he signs when north Dakotas season is over because he still associates himself with the team 

yeah of course it's a first rounder, but who'd want it over Boeser.

Boeser won't be playing four years of college hockey - he was already an elite player last year - I can't see him spending two more in college - he'll want the challenge and the payday of the NHL - and I don't get the impression he has a problem with the team that drafted him.

[canucklehead44]

9 hours ago, CanadianRugby said:

The only reason OP is optimistic about Virtanen is because he's a Canuck.  He's done nothing to indicate he's going to be better than Bertuzzi and help lead the Canucks to a Cup.  Also, Eriksson and his $6,000,000 on the 3rd line is a good thing?  Why is this even a thread.

Exactly. Virtanen hasn't even gotten it together in the AHL and is really struggling to put up points ( 9 in 32, -6). Look at the Jets' first round picks vs ours. 

This team has a hard time scoring goals. As meh as the Sedins have been this year, they are still t 1st & 3rd on our team in scoring. As we saw by Eriksson, spending a lot on a UFA is no guarantee either. 

If the Virtanen pick wasn't such a miss and we picked Ehlers or Nylander I'd feel more confident about the future. Not saying that Virtanen can't be a solid physical 15 type player, but we have major holes on offense. 

[D.B Cooper]

10 hours ago, lethal_spaghetti said:

You can correct me if I am wrong but I remember it taking Bert a about 3-4 seasons in the NHL before he was a dominate force in the NHL. Im just trying to say that its way too premature to rule Jake out into becoming a Bert type of player. 

They don't even play close to the same styles.  

Bert had dangles for days.  He was so big and heavy, no one even tried to mess with him.  He would go in front of the net, make room and go from there. 

 

Virt is a potato. Not a lot of brains to go with his natural skill.  

He can skate fast, and shoot.   

If he can figure it all out, we have a hell of a player, but not even close to big Bert. 

[D.B Cooper]

9 hours ago, billabong said:

I love the enthusiasm but you need to take off your Canucks goggles and look at this team from a birds eye view

 

boeser hasn't signed a contract so he's not even a Canuck yet. He can go back for a 4th year at north dakota next season and if he does than major red flag. Like why not start making money and start your hockey career? He could very well be the vesey. That would be a disaster for this franchise, but it's not a problem until it's a problem

He is only in his 2nd year, and seems ready for the show.    Do you really think he will hold out another 2 years to become a FA?  Highly unlikely. 

Have you seen any interviews with him? 

He is stoked to be a Canuck. 

9 hours ago, billabong said:

 

as of right now we have no one else of substance coming through the ranks at forward, especially at centre, to help Horavt out.

 

I havent lost lost faith in virt but if he doesn't lose some baby fat, start acting like a pro and ultimately lands flat on his face next season too then I'll throw up the red flag 

Agreed.  He doesn't seem to be figuring it out very well.  

I watch all the Utica games, and he has been one of the most disappointing on the ice every night.   He has a long way to go. 

9 hours ago, billabong said:

 

I hope the sedins retire next year cause lets rip the band aid off already and quit milking this chapter and get onto the next generation.

We have NOONE to replace them.  

Yes, they are only a shadow of what they used to be, but we don't have a better option.    We need the Sedins and when they retire, we will feel it big time. 

9 hours ago, billabong said:

 

2 year outlook...

 

Baertschi-horvat-xxxxx

Eriksson-xxxxx-virtanen

granlund-sutter- xxxxx

Gaunce-xxxxx-dorsett

 

that team needs a lot of work, ideally Baer and bo should be 2nd line 

Agreed. 

 

OP is a little too optimistic for sure.  

This team is shaping up to be a middle of the pack, fringe playoff team in the future.

 

We have a half decent couple prospects coming, but nothing really to get excited about.   

Still ALOT of work to be done. 

 

[IBatch]

11 hours ago, Hortankin said:

Bo Horvat is participating in this year's all star game in his 3rd season! Wow who would have guessed that when we were all disappointed about losing Schnieder. To all those people saying Bo is a future 2nd liner at best you are wrong, he's our number 1. 

 

Brock Boeser is almost certainly going to be a 25-40G scorer consistently throughout his career and almost a sure bet to be Horvat's winger for many many years.

 

I may get ripped on for this but I honestly believe we have our other future first line winger in Virtanen. I believe Virtanen will be a better version of Bertuzzi and he will be a key element in our first cup in franchise history.

 

A second line of Baertschi, Sutter, Granlund sounds pretty good in 2-3 years they will be a lot better.

 

Third line of the twins and Eriksson will be the best 3rd line in the NHL.

 

Our D is set for years to come, Benning deserves a HUGE thank you for how fast he turned our terrible D around.

 

And with Markstrom and Demko I feel we will be blessed in goal for years to come as well.

 

Virtanen Horvat Boeser

Baertschi Sutter Granlund

Sedin Sedin Eriksson 

 

Juolevi Gudbranson

Tryamkin Stecher

Hutton/Edler Tanev

 

Demko

Markstrom

 

So many option for 4th line but by the way I see things shaping up we will be a legit contender in 2-3 year. Playoff bound for sure next year, and maybe ever this year!

That is the best possible outlook one could take.  I like Boesser too and given he broke Parise's record it shows he has game.  May get flamed for this but he hasn't played an NHL game yet and scoring 40 goals in this league is harder than ever and Demko is far from a given NHL starter or even back-up yet... Markstrom has improved enough to have my confidence but not enough to do much in the way of contending.  We need world class goaltending that and Demko would most likely have to provide that or we wont be doing much as far as could contending anytime soon.  

Virtanen as an improved Bertuzzi...? Well he better grow 3 inches and add 30lbs if he wants to hit as hard and work hard on his skills to become a 45+ goal scorer.  Virtanen is not a lock to even be an NHL player although I hope he does.

I understand how hard this must be for young fans that know nothing but winning but this team won't contend without some true stars in the line up and outstanding goaltending to go along with the defense we have IF Juolevi becomes a true number one.

 

I would be estatic if things turn out as you predict but not sure they will or the Sedins would even fill a third line shutdown role well in a year or two.

[Pete M]

Here's the thing...there are only 23 roster spots on an NHL team. Some teams may have more prospects than the Canucks, but what matters is quality over quantity.

This starts with a vision from management to what makes a Stanley Cup Champion team. If management gets their vision right, then its a matter of adding pieces to the puzzle in order to make the Championship team. Add quality to each position.

 

Right now, JB is on the right path, I believe (it took him two years to figure it out), but he has started to build from the net out. He is picking young talent that can grow together to become a championship team. The "D" is coming together, gaining confidence, and will only get better. The forward group at this time is the weakest link, partly due to not having the quality pieces yet and secondly, the group is in transition from old to young...this transition hasn't taken place yet.

The key here, management needs to get this transition right or the progression could be set back a few years. LE signing was a head scratcher; they explained why LE was signed, but it is still a head scratcher in regards to the younger, faster, stronger and more skilled direction needed to make this forward group a force to be reckoned with.

 

Boeser, Virtanen, Cassels, Gaudette, Lockwood, etc. may all have potential, but they need to bring the quality needed to be a Stanley Cup Champion. If they don't, then we will be a middle of pack team. Player development is huge in order to get these players playing the right way both mentally and physically.

 

The next 3 years will be very important to the Canucks because of this transition from old to new and because of the decisions needed to make this transition successful.

[CaptainLinden16]

10 hours ago, Butters Stoch said:

Boeser is on track to be a good player but I'd still say it's a 50/50 chance he'll pan out. Hodgson was "almost certainly" going to be an NHL all star and future captain of our team at one point too remember? Still optimistic for Boeser but I just can't say any player is a guarantee after witnissing Hodgson show all that promise.

 

Jake can't be mentioned in the same sentence as Bertuzzi, maybe a Booth or even Torres if we're REALLY lucky.

 

Sutter is about 9 years into his NHL career and has been consistently been playing the same role and putting up the same numbers, I'm not sure if he'll start producing at a higher rate any time soon. Granlund might improve a bit to become a good third liner or barely a 2nd liner on a weak team. Baerstchi is the only one here that I agree with, he's definitely got 2nd line potential and showing it now. 

 

I hate being negative but these are the most realistic predictions I can make and I'm sure that most people who have been watching hockey long enough without homer glasses on could agree with this.

The Bertuzzi part is nonsense, but your opinion of Granlund is equally so.  Granlund current numbers qualify him as a 2nd line player.  He is in the top 180 in scoring.  He is better defensively than most, and he is young.  Baertschi is already also top 180 and looking likely to crack top 90 making him a first line player.  

 

Why do people hate on Sutter?  This guy is the lynchpin.  Takes every key faceoff.  Is top 5 in the league at that.  Skates well...takes the best matchup every night.  He will see his best point total in since his 2nd season this year.  Likely break his assists previous high.  To top it all off he is garaunteed going to be in the top 180 in scoring making him a 2nd liner.

 

i am with Labamba though.  There is an excellent chance the wheels fall of the bus completely when the Sedins retire.  The OP heavily underestimates the amount of pressure the Sedins take off everyone else.  Not to mention they are still 80-110 in scoring making them bad first liners or really good 2nd liners in terms of production.

 

Willie also traps a lot protecting our young D.  If that were to change maybe the OP wouldn't be so high on our young D.  I am not saying they are bad or good, but they are defenitely sheltered.

 

[flickyoursedin]

Right now Nylander or Ehlers at 20 years old and Matthew Tkachuk at 18 years old would be leading our NHL team in points. Its a little frustrating and disheartening seeing such high draft picks just after ours succeed so quickly. Especially when the players we picked on the majority of the lists weren't BPA. Don't get me wrong overall Benning throughout the draft is great at finding a lot of diamonds in the rough however right now its hard for me to be as optimistic towards the future right now.

[Alflives]

3 hours ago, Pete M said:

Here's the thing...there are only 23 roster spots on an NHL team. Some teams may have more prospects than the Canucks, but what matters is quality over quantity.

This starts with a vision from management to what makes a Stanley Cup Champion team. If management gets their vision right, then its a matter of adding pieces to the puzzle in order to make the Championship team. Add quality to each position.

 

Right now, JB is on the right path, I believe (it took him two years to figure it out), but he has started to build from the net out. He is picking young talent that can grow together to become a championship team. The "D" is coming together, gaining confidence, and will only get better. The forward group at this time is the weakest link, partly due to not having the quality pieces yet and secondly, the group is in transition from old to young...this transition hasn't taken place yet.

The key here, management needs to get this transition right or the progression could be set back a few years. LE signing was a head scratcher; they explained why LE was signed, but it is still a head scratcher in regards to the younger, faster, stronger and more skilled direction needed to make this forward group a force to be reckoned with.

 

Boeser, Virtanen, Cassels, Gaudette, Lockwood, etc. may all have potential, but they need to bring the quality needed to be a Stanley Cup Champion. If they don't, then we will be a middle of pack team. Player development is huge in order to get these players playing the right way both mentally and physically.

 

The next 3 years will be very important to the Canucks because of this transition from old to new and because of the decisions needed to make this transition successful.

Yup, I agree.  We are certainly making a transition to a younger team.  The level of that team is still to be determined.  Take out the Twins, Edler, and Miller and where are we in the transition?  Who replaces those 4 key players?  I really don't see two forwards yet who can take over for the Twins.  On defence maybe Juiolevi can replace Edler, but that's still a big maybe.  And Is Markstrom a legitimate number one?  Is Demko?  

I really think, when the transition is complete, we are going to be in for some very lean years - much like the 70s and 80s.  

[orcasgonewild]

7 hours ago, ice orca said:

You really overate Gaudette. In what world is he better than Sutter or Horvat who are 2nd line centers. Like most fan bases most prospects get grossly overated.

Don't be a derp

 

Horvat will be pushed into our 11st line position once Sedins retire, Sutter will settle in as our third line centre because he's getting old. And if u looked at gaudette stats say he'll be 2nd liner. Don't let ur ignorance blind u. 

[ice orca]

Just now, orcasgonewild said:

Don't be a derp

 

Horvat will be pushed into our 11st line position once Sedins retire, Sutter will settle in as our third line centre because he's getting old. And if u looked at gaudette stats say he'll be 2nd liner. Don't let ur ignorance blind u. 

yawn..

[appleboy]

I think Benning has done a good job of refreshing the team. The young D core is showing a lot of promise and our goal tending looks solid. The trades he has made to make us younger up front make sense but are a real work in progress. In my books Jake was the biggest mistake that they have made. I think they were looking at the home town boy aspect. We will be lucky if he turns into an impact bottom six forward.( I fear we have a Skillie)

With the twins step back this year I would say that we are in for some lean years yet. We still need to land some high picks to fill some glaring holes on the first line. WD is playing a shut down style of game for a reason. Boeser will hopefully help but we might lose Granlund and the twins are going into their last year. I see lots of help coming for our bottom six but very slim pickings for our top six.

We will be needing a few very successful drafts over the next few years.

 

I would like to see Benning move one of Sbisa or Tanev for picks. I also think they should try to move Baer or Granlund as we will lose one of them in the expansion.

[Butters Stoch]

8 hours ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

The Bertuzzi part is nonsense, but your opinion of Granlund is equally so.  Granlund current numbers qualify him as a 2nd line player.  He is in the top 180 in scoring.  He is better defensively than most, and he is young.  Baertschi is already also top 180 and looking likely to crack top 90 making him a first line player.  

 

Why do people hate on Sutter?  This guy is the lynchpin.  Takes every key faceoff.  Is top 5 in the league at that.  Skates well...takes the best matchup every night.  He will see his best point total in since his 2nd season this year.  Likely break his assists previous high.  To top it all off he is garaunteed going to be in the top 180 in scoring making him a 2nd liner.

 

i am with Labamba though.  There is an excellent chance the wheels fall of the bus completely when the Sedins retire.  The OP heavily underestimates the amount of pressure the Sedins take off everyone else.  Not to mention they are still 80-110 in scoring making them bad first liners or really good 2nd liners in terms of production.

 

Willie also traps a lot protecting our young D.  If that were to change maybe the OP wouldn't be so high on our young D.  I am not saying they are bad or good, but they are defenitely sheltered.

 

I guess if you look at it that way, sure Granlund can barely qualify as a 2nd liner at his .4pt/g pace.

 

I'm not hating on Sutter, he's always been great defensively and good for about 40pts. OP thinks he'll be better in few years but he's consistently had the same production and playing style his whole career, I just don't see him suddenly producing much more than that.

 

Problem is that if we have these guys who just barely qualify for your definition of a 2nd line player, are we actually a competitive team to get excited about? They might be 2nd liners on a weak-mediocre team but we want to be a competitive team don't we?

[Nucksfollower1983]

21 hours ago, billabong said:

I love the enthusiasm but you need to take off your Canucks goggles and look at this team from a birds eye view

 

boeser hasn't signed a contract so he's not even a Canuck yet. He can go back for a 4th year at north dakota next season and if he does than major red flag. Like why not start making money and start your hockey career? He could very well be the vesey. That would be a disaster for this franchise, but it's not a problem until it's a problem

 

as of right now we have no one else of substance coming through the ranks at forward, especially at centre, to help Horavt out.

 

I havent lost lost faith in virt but if he doesn't lose some baby fat, start acting like a pro and ultimately lands flat on his face next season too then I'll throw up the red flag 

 

I hope the sedins retire next year cause lets rip the band aid off already and quit milking this chapter and get onto the next generation.

 

2 year outlook...

 

Baertschi-horvat-xxxxx

Eriksson-xxxxx-virtanen

granlund-sutter- xxxxx

Gaunce-xxxxx-dorsett

 

that team needs a lot of work, ideally Baer and bo should be 2nd line 

 

 

 

next year would be his 3rd NCAA season not his fourth. and I doesn't matter anyway, he will sign this summer.

[billabong]

22 minutes ago, Nucksfollower1983 said:

next year would be his 3rd NCAA season not his fourth. and I doesn't matter anyway, he will sign this summer.

Literally the 5th guy to point out that mistake I've already admitted and explained it to someone else  I get it I fudged up guys

 

im hoping his North Dakota season ends asap so he can join us by the end of this year 

[mll]

There have been a few comments in different threads re production of the Sedins and now Granlund/Sutter - so numbers below.

 

One productive game could change where everyone stands but as of today these are the numbers after 50 games - other teams have between 46 and 52 games.  In brackets ranking among Fs with more than 35 games.  Stats from the NHL website.   P/60 at 5v5 from Corsica using a minimum of 450 minutes.

P/GP to take into account that players have not played the same amount of games.  P/60 to account for ice time.

        

                              TOI                         P                     P/GP                 P/60                P/60 at 5v5      P/last 37 games (*) 

Henrik              19:20 (24th)              32 (66)              0.64 (93)          1.99 (125)           1.55 (141)               0.70             

Daniel               18:35 (54)                27 (113)            0.54 (128)         1.74 (165)           1.36 (187)               0.57          

Eriksson           18:50 (40)                21 (160)            0.42 (177)          1.34 (236)           1.11 (226)              0.46      

Sutter               19:20  (27)               24 (136)            0.48 (152)          1.49 (206)           1.24  (207)             0.49         

Granlund          16:50 (122)              20 (169)            0.40 (186)          1.42 (221)           1.36 (187)              0.43                

Burr (44 gp)      14:40 (193)              16 (210)            0.36 (208)          1.49 (209)           1.32  (195)             0.46         

Horvat              17:40 (93)                  32 (66)              0.64 (93)           2.18 (96)            1.86 (91)                0.73                

Baer (47 gp)     15:25 (170)               26 (120)           0.56  (122)          2.15 (99)            2.09 (40)                 0.71             

 

(*)  The NYR game was a bit of a turning point for the team.  They broke the 9-game losing streak and have gone 19-13-5 for 43pts in 37 games since.  Everyone's production improved from that game onwards.  It's also the game where Burrows was put on the Baer-Horvat line and they've been producing at roughly the same pace ever since (ie ignoring those first 13 games).  

[theilluminati]

6 hours ago, orcasgonewild said:

Don't be a derp

 

Horvat will be pushed into our 11st line position once Sedins retire, Sutter will settle in as our third line centre because he's getting old. And if u looked at gaudette stats say he'll be 2nd liner. Don't let ur ignorance blind u. 

He's played 65 NCAA games and has 66pts. That's just average among NCAA players so how does that show that he's a sure-fire NHL 2nd liner already? The top 50 scorers currently in NCAA Division 1 are all point per game players or higher, by your warped logic ALL of them will be 2nd line NHLers.

[oldnews]

9 minutes ago, theilluminati said:

He's played 65 NCAA games and has 66pts. That's just average among NCAA players so how does that show that he's a sure-fire NHL 2nd liner already? The top 50 scorers currently in NCAA Division 1 are all point per game players or higher, by your warped logic ALL of them will be 2nd line NHLers.

 

What an absurd set of claims.

 

First, do you have any idea how many NCAA players there are?  PPG average is absolutely absurd.

 

Second, Gaudette is tied for 8th overall, 7th overall in PPG, and the only Sophomore in the top 10 - all the others are Jr and Srs.

 

But thanks for unwarping the logic lol.

[Gurn]

Will add that games played doesn't mean he got 15 plus minutes every game.