Future is better than most see it

[cripplereh]

On 2/4/2017 at 8:41 AM, 189lb enforcers? said:

Linden was all heart, like Steamer, but he couldn't punch his way out of a wet paper bag. For all of maybe 3 years, Bert was up there with Neely and Lindros. Linden played the game as hard as anyone, but played it clean, for a big guy who laid out some memorable hits. Bert can't hold a candle to the heart and passion Linden displayed in a losing game, down by 6, blocking shots with his face. Off-side Bertuzzi was a liability when things weren't going well, something Linden will never be associated with. Always was team first. Kinda like this Horvat kid. 

agreed and why I have said in the start of the season that I see Horvat playing like Linden and that is something every team needs so I am glad we have him!

[5nothincanucksohno]

On January 31, 2017 at 7:50 PM, Alflives said:

Tanev for Sam Reinhart?  

Would definitely do that trade...unfortunately Buffalo won't...c'mon Buffalo

[GoBoGo53]

On 1/28/2017 at 9:25 PM, Hortankin said:

Bo Horvat is participating in this year's all star game in his 3rd season! Wow who would have guessed that when we were all disappointed about losing Schnieder. To all those people saying Bo is a future 2nd liner at best you are wrong, he's our number 1. 

 

Brock Boeser is almost certainly going to be a 25-40G scorer consistently throughout his career and almost a sure bet to be Horvat's winger for many many years.

 

I may get ripped on for this but I honestly believe we have our other future first line winger in Virtanen. I believe Virtanen will be a better version of Bertuzzi and he will be a key element in our first cup in franchise history.

 

A second line of Baertschi, Sutter, Granlund sounds pretty good in 2-3 years they will be a lot better.

 

Third line of the twins and Eriksson will be the best 3rd line in the NHL.

 

Our D is set for years to come, Benning deserves a HUGE thank you for how fast he turned our terrible D around.

 

And with Markstrom and Demko I feel we will be blessed in goal for years to come as well.

 

Virtanen Horvat Boeser

Baertschi Sutter Granlund

Sedin Sedin Eriksson 

 

Juolevi Gudbranson

Tryamkin Stecher

Hutton/Edler Tanev

 

Demko

Markstrom

 

So many option for 4th line but by the way I see things shaping up we will be a legit contender in 2-3 year. Playoff bound for sure next year, and maybe ever this year!

"Virtanen will be a better version of Bertuzzi"

1. Have you watched Virtanen play? He has no hockey IQ, your expectation should be a 4th liner, not a first line forward. He will never be anything more than a third liner.

2. Did you watch Bertuzzi play? 

 

"Boeser almost certainly going to be a 25-40G scorer consistently throughout his career"

1. He's struggling right now in college. He has a lack of offensive IQ, and doesn't make his team mates better. It's clear now that he's not playing with Jost.
2. How can you almost guarantee such a thing? Boeser has major skating issues, Hodgson had the same issues. Boeser is far from a certainty to even be an NHL player. There are only a few perennial 25-40 goal scorers in the NHL. Boeser likely becomes as Okposo type by all accounts. Fine player for sure, but not a franchise changing piece. Expectations really need to be managed for Boeser.

 

Regarding Bo:
1. Yes he's a good cetnerman, I'm his biggest fan. But he isn't elite. Name me the last Cup Contender without an elite centerman. There are only a few young ones in the NHL (McDavid, Matthews, Eichel, Barkov). You need one of those guys. Horvat isn't elite offensively or defensively.

 

Gudbranson isn't a top pairing defenseman, he's a bottom pairing guy, and Juolevi is a longshot to be the stud #1 you need on a cup contender (Letang, Keith, Doughty, etc). 

Sorry dude but your post is blinded by so much homerism as many others have already pointed out.

[HorvatToBaertschi]

39 minutes ago, GoBoGo53 said:

"Virtanen will be a better version of Bertuzzi"

1. Have you watched Virtanen play? He has no hockey IQ, your expectation should be a 4th liner, not a first line forward. He will never be anything more than a third liner.

2. Did you watch Bertuzzi play? 

 

"Boeser almost certainly going to be a 25-40G scorer consistently throughout his career"

1. He's struggling right now in college. He has a lack of offensive IQ, and doesn't make his team mates better. It's clear now that he's not playing with Jost.
2. How can you almost guarantee such a thing? Boeser has major skating issues, Hodgson had the same issues. Boeser is far from a certainty to even be an NHL player. There are only a few perennial 25-40 goal scorers in the NHL. Boeser likely becomes as Okposo type by all accounts. Fine player for sure, but not a franchise changing piece. Expectations really need to be managed for Boeser.

 

Regarding Bo:
1. Yes he's a good cetnerman, I'm his biggest fan. But he isn't elite. Name me the last Cup Contender without an elite centerman. There are only a few young ones in the NHL (McDavid, Matthews, Eichel, Barkov). You need one of those guys. Horvat isn't elite offensively or defensively.

 

Gudbranson isn't a top pairing defenseman, he's a bottom pairing guy, and Juolevi is a longshot to be the stud #1 you need on a cup contender (Letang, Keith, Doughty, etc). 

Sorry dude but your post is blinded by so much homerism as many others have already pointed out.

So youre giving up on a 20 year old 6th overall pick?  Thats very foolish. 

Boeser broke records that elite players had established. This year has been halted by a lingering wrist injury, so clearly his wriSt shot (his #1 tool) is being compromised. That will get sorted out this offseason.

The last team to win à Stanley cup without the type of center you're describing are thé Blackhawks and Kings, who have won à collective 5 cups since 2010, and thats excluding the bruins who had Bergeron and Kreijci, who are both not elite. Kopitar and Toews are elite 2 way centres, much like Bo Horvat, whereas truly elite players like crosby, mcDavid, stamkos and tavares have a combined 1 ring in that same span. Hockey is à team game, and it needs à True leader than can pitch in on both sides of the puck, making Bo horvat our elite player, who is an allstar in just his 3rd season.

When it comes to Brock and virtanen, I agree its important to pace our expectations, but I think your rebuttles are just as foolish as thé people that are already stapling boeser and virtanen in thé top 6 for next year.

Youre probably one of those people that claimed with certainty that burrows would never score 35 goals, hansen would never play an NHL game, Horvat would plateau at 3rd line C because his skating was sketchy in his draft +1 year.

Every player is différent,  and when we speak of potential, virtanen and Boeser ooze it. 2 différent style of players and if they both even scratch the surface of their draft potential, we are in for a great top 6 in due time.

Baertschi Horvat Boeser

Virtanen sutter granlund

Sedin sedin eriksson 

Burrows/labate gaunce hansen. 

 

Ps. Please stop being so négative. 

[Baggins]

46 minutes ago, GoBoGo53 said:

"Virtanen will be a better version of Bertuzzi"

1. Have you watched Virtanen play? He has no hockey IQ, your expectation should be a 4th liner, not a first line forward. He will never be anything more than a third liner.

2. Did you watch Bertuzzi play? 

 

"Boeser almost certainly going to be a 25-40G scorer consistently throughout his career"

1. He's struggling right now in college. He has a lack of offensive IQ, and doesn't make his team mates better. It's clear now that he's not playing with Jost.
2. How can you almost guarantee such a thing? Boeser has major skating issues, Hodgson had the same issues. Boeser is far from a certainty to even be an NHL player. There are only a few perennial 25-40 goal scorers in the NHL. Boeser likely becomes as Okposo type by all accounts. Fine player for sure, but not a franchise changing piece. Expectations really need to be managed for Boeser.

 

Regarding Bo:
1. Yes he's a good cetnerman, I'm his biggest fan. But he isn't elite. Name me the last Cup Contender without an elite centerman. There are only a few young ones in the NHL (McDavid, Matthews, Eichel, Barkov). You need one of those guys. Horvat isn't elite offensively or defensively.

 

Gudbranson isn't a top pairing defenseman, he's a bottom pairing guy, and Juolevi is a longshot to be the stud #1 you need on a cup contender (Letang, Keith, Doughty, etc). 

Sorry dude but your post is blinded by so much homerism as many others have already pointed out.

Did you watch Bert play in NY? You would have said the same things about him you're saying about Jake. Lazy, no IQ, blah, blah, blah. He played his way from the 2nd line to the 3rd line to the 4th line and into the pressbox. Some star in the making. You making a lot of declarations about what players will or won't be. To me that's a fools game. Nobody knows. Some are overly positive about players while you're overly negative. Personally, although I don't bother with bold predictions, I prefer the positive until proven otherwise. Time will tell.

 

Until then enjoy wallowing away in your negativity.

[Nathancanuck]

4 hours ago, GoBoGo53 said:

Regarding Bo:
1. Yes he's a good cetnerman, I'm his biggest fan. But he isn't elite. Name me the last Cup Contender without an elite centerman. There are only a few young ones in the NHL (McDavid, Matthews, Eichel, Barkov). You need one of those guys. Horvat isn't elite offensively or defensively.

 

Gudbranson isn't a top pairing defenseman, he's a bottom pairing guy, and Juolevi is a longshot to be the stud #1 you need on a cup contender (Letang, Keith, Doughty, etc). 

Sorry dude but your post is blinded by so much homerism as many others have already pointed out.

I know he isn't elite yet but I think he could be elite in a few years. Not in a McDavid way but I see Horvat as a complete player: His speed, size and strength allows him 

to compete against anyone. For example in a playoff series vs Edmonton I think he could take out McDavid to a point where our team has a chance to win.

 

Gudbranson right now is a #5 D but he could easily be a good #3 guy who provides toughness and leadership in 1-2 years.. so nothing wrong with that.

 

[Hortankin]

6 hours ago, GoBoGo53 said:

"Virtanen will be a better version of Bertuzzi"

1. Have you watched Virtanen play? He has no hockey IQ, your expectation should be a 4th liner, not a first line forward. He will never be anything more than a third liner.

2. Did you watch Bertuzzi play? 

 

"Boeser almost certainly going to be a 25-40G scorer consistently throughout his career"

1. He's struggling right now in college. He has a lack of offensive IQ, and doesn't make his team mates better. It's clear now that he's not playing with Jost.
2. How can you almost guarantee such a thing? Boeser has major skating issues, Hodgson had the same issues. Boeser is far from a certainty to even be an NHL player. There are only a few perennial 25-40 goal scorers in the NHL. Boeser likely becomes as Okposo type by all accounts. Fine player for sure, but not a franchise changing piece. Expectations really need to be managed for Boeser.

 

Regarding Bo:
1. Yes he's a good cetnerman, I'm his biggest fan. But he isn't elite. Name me the last Cup Contender without an elite centerman. There are only a few young ones in the NHL (McDavid, Matthews, Eichel, Barkov). You need one of those guys. Horvat isn't elite offensively or defensively.

 

Gudbranson isn't a top pairing defenseman, he's a bottom pairing guy, and Juolevi is a longshot to be the stud #1 you need on a cup contender (Letang, Keith, Doughty, etc). 

Sorry dude but your post is blinded by so much homerism as many others have already pointed out.

Such negativity in yours it's baffling.. 

 

How was Bertuzzi doing when he was Virtanen age? And career 3rd liner at best? Haha I'd wager any amount he will be ATLEAST a 2nd liner. But that must be home risk because I have hope.

 

Boeser is one of if not the most intriguing prospect not playing in the NHL he will be a consistent 25 goal scorer with 40 goal potential. Don't like my opinion oh well let the negativity flow through your veins.

 

Horvat is a Bergeron type center man he is elite in his own unique way, oh btw Bergeron isn't elite (in your eyes) and he won a cup!

 

Gudbranson is already a solid top 4 and he is captain material. I'm sorry he is adjusting to our style of play and new team mates, I bet you think Eriksson is a bust.

 

I can't wait for us to compete because every player you just gave me a "reality check" on will be the players with that playoff edge that really help a team grind their way through the playoffs.

 

I may have a touch of homer ism but I'd rather that than your obnoxious negativity!

 

Life's a lot better when the glass is half full

[CanadianRugby]

1 hour ago, Hortankin said:

Such negativity in yours it's baffling.. 

 

How was Bertuzzi doing when he was Virtanen age? And career 3rd liner at best? Haha I'd wager any amount he will be ATLEAST a 2nd liner. But that must be home risk because I have hope.

 

Boeser is one of if not the most intriguing prospect not playing in the NHL he will be a consistent 25 goal scorer with 40 goal potential. Don't like my opinion oh well let the negativity flow through your veins.

 

Horvat is a Bergeron type center man he is elite in his own unique way, oh btw Bergeron isn't elite (in your eyes) and he won a cup!

 

Gudbranson is already a solid top 4 and he is captain material. I'm sorry he is adjusting to our style of play and new team mates, I bet you think Eriksson is a bust.

 

I can't wait for us to compete because every player you just gave me a "reality check" on will be the players with that playoff edge that really help a team grind their way through the playoffs.

 

I may have a touch of homer ism but I'd rather that than your obnoxious negativity!

 

Life's a lot better when the glass is half full

I'm a positive person and yeah life is better when the glass is half full. The thing is, you're on a sports forum.  People come here to discuss hockey, and make arguments based on facts and statistics.  If you choose to self admittedly be willfully blind you should start a cheerleading thread, because you're cheerleading instead of making arguments based on facts.  If you don't want to see negativity about the Canucks, don't come on a sports forum when the team is garbage. 

[Gurn]

12 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

I'm a positive person and yeah life is better when the glass is half full. The thing is, you're on a sports forum.  People come here to discuss hockey, and make arguments based on facts and statistics.  If you choose to self admittedly be willfully blind you should start a cheerleading thread, because you're cheerleading instead of making arguments based on facts.  If you don't want to see negativity about the Canucks, don't come on a sports forum when the team is garbage. 

Have to add not all the arguments can be won or lost with just facts and statistics.

[RWMc1]

21 minutes ago, gurn said:

Have to add not all the arguments can be won or lost with just facts and statistics.

Yup! My crystal is better than yours based on facts and statistics. Good stuff.

 

Sometimes the difference in how a player progresses is work ethic and a willingness to change. That's hard to predict using stats. That's why some top picks don't live up to their hype and lower picks rise higher in the pecking order.

 

Time will tell!

[GoBoGo53]

21 hours ago, Hortankin said:

Such negativity in yours it's baffling.. 

 

How was Bertuzzi doing when he was Virtanen age? And career 3rd liner at best? Haha I'd wager any amount he will be ATLEAST a 2nd liner. But that must be home risk because I have hope.

 

Boeser is one of if not the most intriguing prospect not playing in the NHL he will be a consistent 25 goal scorer with 40 goal potential. Don't like my opinion oh well let the negativity flow through your veins.

 

Horvat is a Bergeron type center man he is elite in his own unique way, oh btw Bergeron isn't elite (in your eyes) and he won a cup!

 

Gudbranson is already a solid top 4 and he is captain material. I'm sorry he is adjusting to our style of play and new team mates, I bet you think Eriksson is a bust.

 

I can't wait for us to compete because every player you just gave me a "reality check" on will be the players with that playoff edge that really help a team grind their way through the playoffs.

 

I may have a touch of homer ism but I'd rather that than your obnoxious negativity!

 

Life's a lot better when the glass is half full

Sorry, I just like calling it how I see it.

 

Again, you are pointing out one example in bertuzzi, and bertuzzi showed progression in the NHL (not talking points wise). There are hundreds maybe thousands of examples of players like Virtanen who become nothing more than AHL players, based on how Virtanen is playing right now visually and the AHL comparables. 

 

Again, try and be a little unbiased when talking about Boeser in relation to other prospects. Krilli Kaprizov was drafted in the same year as Boeser and is a superior prospect. He was on pace to break Kuznetsov/Panarin/Tarasenko's KHL records, he might have done it already but regardless he is one of the best underage KHL'ers of all time and was the best player at the world juniors. Chabot, Puljiarjvi, Dahlin, Hischier, Patrick are all indisputably better. Boeser has taken a step back from his previous season and his skating hasn't improved.

 

Bergeron is absolutely elite, he's one of the best posession centerman of the past 10 years and a perennial selke candidate. Bergeron and Horvat are nothing alike. Bergeron is elite defensively and an elite posession player. Horvat is neither at this point, he can get there though, not ruling that out. 

 

Gudbranson is a bottom pairing dman, don't know what to tell you if you can't see it with your eyes, Corsica.hockey, check it out.

It's fine to be optimistic when the time is right. As of now however, our bitter rivals have McDavid, Puljiarjvi, Drasaitl, Klefbom and Gaudreau, Hamilton, Monahan, and Tkachuk, young elite established players and we are talking about Jake Virtanen non stop. They have proven elite young talent, besides Horvat we don't. Sorry, but that's just the reality of the situation.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, GoBoGo53 said:

Sorry, I just like calling it how I see it.

 

Again, you are pointing out one example in bertuzzi, and bertuzzi showed progression in the NHL (not talking points wise). There are hundreds maybe thousands of examples of players like Virtanen who become nothing more than AHL players, based on how Virtanen is playing right now visually and the AHL comparables. 

 

Again, try and be a little unbiased when talking about Boeser in relation to other prospects. Krilli Kaprizov was drafted in the same year as Boeser and is a superior prospect. He was on pace to break Kuznetsov/Panarin/Tarasenko's KHL records, he might have done it already but regardless he is one of the best underage KHL'ers of all time and was the best player at the world juniors. Chabot, Puljiarjvi, Dahlin, Hischier, Patrick are all indisputably better. Boeser has taken a step back from his previous season and his skating hasn't improved.

 

Bergeron is absolutely elite, he's one of the best posession centerman of the past 10 years and a perennial selke candidate. Bergeron and Horvat are nothing alike. Bergeron is elite defensively and an elite posession player. Horvat is neither at this point, he can get there though, not ruling that out. 

 

Gudbranson is a bottom pairing dman, don't know what to tell you if you can't see it with your eyes, Corsica.hockey, check it out.

It's fine to be optimistic when the time is right. As of now however, our bitter rivals have McDavid, Puljiarjvi, Drasaitl, Klefbom and Gaudreau, Hamilton, Monahan, and Tkachuk, young elite established players and we are talking about Jake Virtanen non stop. They have proven elite young talent, besides Horvat we don't. Sorry, but that's just the reality of the situation.

I agree whole heartedly.  JB is building an average team, at best.  Sure he's turning over the roster to a younger core, but (if one is truly honest) that new group is nothing special.  We have Bo as a young forward, and that's it.  Yes, we have some young D, but are any of them (honestly again) more than just average?  Gotta say I love Tryamkin though.  For our team to become a better than average group, after the complete transition to youth, we need for ALL our prospects to develop well beyond expectations.  What are the odds of that happening, considering we really don't have a lot of prospects to start with?

[Neko]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I agree whole heartedly.  JB is building an average team, at best.  Sure he's turning over the roster to a younger core, but (if one is truly honest) that new group is nothing special.  We have Bo as a young forward, and that's it.  Yes, we have some young D, but are any of them (honestly again) more than just average?  Gotta say I love Tryamkin though.  For our team to become a better than average group, after the complete transition to youth, we need for ALL our prospects to develop well beyond expectations.  What are the odds of that happening, considering we really don't have a lot of prospects to start with?

I've actually grown attached to this year's roster, I like almost every player but yeah the team lacks a bit of oomph type players, but in the next couple years we have some young talent coming in which should improve the team.  Can't wait for Boeser, Juolevi and Demko and hopefully a new and experienced coach.  Also Bo could potentially be a 70+ point player if he ends up on the first line after Sedins retires.

[CaptainLinden16]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

I agree whole heartedly.  JB is building an average team, at best.  Sure he's turning over the roster to a younger core, but (if one is truly honest) that new group is nothing special.  We have Bo as a young forward, and that's it.  Yes, we have some young D, but are any of them (honestly again) more than just average?  Gotta say I love Tryamkin though.  For our team to become a better than average group, after the complete transition to youth, we need for ALL our prospects to develop well beyond expectations.  What are the odds of that happening, considering we really don't have a lot of prospects to start with?

Your saying that as if all you have to do is focus on a McDavid and then you get one.  The team is younger, less expensive and competitive.  They lack stars, but that's a crap shoot.  Maybe Boeser is a 40 goalscorer.  Maybe he never plays an NHL game.  

[Alflives]

15 minutes ago, CaptainLinden16 said:

Your saying that as if all you have to do is focus on a McDavid and then you get one.  The team is younger, less expensive and competitive.  They lack stars, but that's a crap shoot.  Maybe Boeser is a 40 goalscorer.  Maybe he never plays an NHL game.  

Your point about costing less is a good one.  Maybe with our saved Cap space we could sign a UFA, much like Boston did with Chara, who makes a difference?  Tavares comes to mind:)

[the harry]

It is rather impossible to aquirre a real elite center in his prime.

You can overpay for an older one, a scenario which make no sense for the rebuilding Canucks.

You can overpay for an elite prospekt center, but there is always a risk of his future development.

You can tank but there is no warranty you win the raffle.

The best thing you can do is to draft properly and to develop your rookies as best as possible.

 

Horvat is still very young, he's defense play is getting better every day, he's really fast and he has good scoring abilities. Get him a big scoring right winger like Niederreiter, first line starts and watch his point totals go up.

[mll]

.

[NUCKER67]

@GoBoGo53

 

Is that you Botchford? Made some decent points, but it's pretty negative.

 

Virtanen, Boeser, Horvat and Juolevi, are all so young still. You can't say someone's future isn't going to be very bright, judging from a handful of NHL games. And in the case of Boeser and Juolevi, no NHL games. We're all waiting to see how those guys will turn out. It'll be years before we know. Horvat looks like a future captain and leader. He's 21 and tied with the Sedins in points. Not too shabby.

 

That being said, I think the Canucks still need a #1C and #1LW, down the road.

 

____ -  ____ - Boeser

Baertschi - Horvat - Virtanen

 

I also think Green will work wonders with Jake and he'll come back next year a different player. We haven't seen the best of Jake yet.  

[WeneedLumme]

On February 9, 2017 at 2:05 PM, RWMc1 said:

Yup! My crystal is better than yours based on facts and statistics. Good stuff.

 

Sometimes the difference in how a player progresses is work ethic and a willingness to change. That's hard to predict using stats. That's why some top picks don't live up to their hype and lower picks rise higher in the pecking order.

 

Time will tell!

That's why JB prefers to draft character players, because you can count on them working hard enough to actually reach their potential. Despite the many armchair GMs who whine about how only skill matters, character doesn't win anything.

[erkayloomeh]

On Saturday, January 28, 2017 at 8:01 PM, Drakrami said:

lol you just lost all credibility after you say Virtanen will be a better Bertuzzi. 

You never know   I wouldn't say he's lost all credibility

I often wonder how good any of the wce would have been without each other. 

How good would Bert have been with naslund? And naslund without Bert?  And the sidekick bmo never got enough credit I will add.  

Virtanen isn't that kind of player. However good he becomes won't be as dependant on his linemates.