Vince Li, Greyhound Attacker Who Beheaded Passenger,May Ask For Full Freedom

[prix57]

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/02/06/vince-li-freedom_n_14631682.html

 

The mother of a man beheaded by a fellow bus passenger in Manitoba says her son's killer is seeking an absolute discharge almost eight years after he was found not criminally responsible.

Carol de Delley, in a social media post last week, said justice officials told her Vince Li — who now goes by the name Will Baker — will ask the Criminal Code Review Board for a discharge at a hearing Feb. 6.

If granted, no conviction will be registered and he won't be required to follow any conditions, de Delley wrote on Facebook

    Vince Li move to independent living considered by review board
    Tory MP asks Manitoba review board to deny Vince Li more freedom
    Beheading still haunts bus passengers

She suggested a discharge is "the lowest-level adult sentence that an offender can get.

"The offender is finished with their case that day," she wrote.

Baker killed Tim McLean during a bus trip along the Trans-Canada Highway near Portage la Prairie in July 2008. He sat next to the 22-year-old McLean on the bus from Edmonton to Winnipeg after the young man smiled at him and asked how he was doing.

Baker said he heard the voice of God telling him to kill the young carnival worker or "die immediately."

He repeatedly stabbed McLean while the young man fought for his life. As passengers fled the bus, Baker continued stabbing and mutilating the body before he was arrested.

He was found to be not criminally responsible due to a mental illness — schizophrenia.

Baker was originally kept in a secure wing at the Selkirk Mental Health Centre, but the board has granted him increasing freedoms almost every year.

His medical team has said he has been a model patient and understands the need to continue to take anti-psychotic medication.
MP wants request denied

At his last review board hearing, Baker was granted the right to live on his own, but subject to monitoring and random drug tests.

The Supreme Court of Canada ruled in 1999 that a review board must order an absolute discharge if a person doesn't pose a significant threat to public safety.

The ruling added there must be clear evidence of a significant risk to the public for the review board to continue imposing conditions after a person is found not criminally responsible.

Archie Kaiser, an expert in mental health and the law at Dalhousie University in Halifax, said there's a poor public
understanding of what "not criminally responsible" means. The emphasis must be on the individual's treatment and potential risk to the community, not on punishment.

"There is widespread stigma and prejudice when it concerns people with mental illness and that's something that persons found not criminally responsible bear in double measure," Kaiser said.

"People think if you have a serious mental-health problem that you're going to act unpredictably, that you're incapable of making decisions and you're dangerous, whereas none of those things are likely to be true."

Kaiser also suggested involvement with the justice system serves to amplify concerns about an individual, "so people have at least two levels of prejudice that they're fighting against."

Manitoba Tory MP James Bezan said Baker's request for a discharge should be denied — and Bezan expects it will be.

"Will Baker, regardless of the name that he goes by, still beheaded and cannibalized Tim McLean," he said in an emailed statement.

He called an absolute discharge an insult to the victim's family and a risk to public safety.

"Tim McLean's family's rights and well-being should be at the forefront of the court's decision. The family has endured significant loss and suffering ... (and) to allow a murderer to be released without any conviction or conditions would simply be wrong."

[Warhippy]

Every single time I hear someone say a person only shot up a church/mosque/school/theater because they're not well mentally and it wasn't a terrorist attack or act of terrorism.

 

I immediately think of this guy.  THIS is the face of a man or human with true mental health issues.  But because of his diagnosis as has been reported he is 1 week without medication from turning someone else in to a snack.

 

As such no, if they believe he should be free, the doctors suggesting he be allowed back in to the world should be forced to have him living with them and their children for no less than 5 years.

 

If they accept THAT condition without pause than sure, let him free and they can set him up a room next to their kids.  If they pause for even a second than no.  He's a risk.

[JM_]

"His medical team has said he has been a model patient and understands the need to continue to take anti-psychotic medication."

 

Well then, there you go...... yikes. 

[Lancaster]

While it may seem to be unfair, if someone who can be and proven to be a threat to society when they're off their meds, not sure why they shouldn't be incarcerated.  Not saying all mentally ill individuals should be locked up, but this person did take the life of another.  Criminally liable or not, the act was still done.  

 

I'm all for rehabilitating people, but sometimes the risks are too high.  What if in the future (knock on wood) he somehow forgot his meds again and then kills someone else?  Just give him a slap on the wrist and says, "You did bad again.  But it's ok, it ain't your fault.  Just remember to take your meds again, ok?"

[Tre Mac]

23 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Every single time I hear someone say a person only shot up a church/mosque/school/theater because they're not well mentally and it wasn't a terrorist attack or act of terrorism.

 

I immediately think of this guy.  THIS is the face of a man or human with true mental health issues.  But because of his diagnosis as has been reported he is 1 week without medication from turning someone else in to a snack.

 

As such no, if they believe he should be free, the doctors suggesting he be allowed back in to the world should be forced to have him living with them and their children for no less than 5 years.

 

If they accept THAT condition without pause than sure, let him free and they can set him up a room next to their kids.  If they pause for even a second than no.  He's a risk.

Sad but true.

[Johnny Shotgun]

The RCMP should have gunned him down like a mad dog when they had their chance.  Cowtown cops blow people away for just looking angry at them.

[Jägermeister]

I'm all for rehabilitation and granting him freedoms as he shows he is capable of taking his medications consistently, but IMO a full discharge is too much.

He at the very least needs to be regularly monitored and have conditions placed on his freedom to ensure he is continuing to take his medication.

[PhillipBlunt]

If he is fully exonerated, Canada's justice system will be, without a doubt, an abysmal failure.

 

Regardless of his mental fragility, he's a homicidal cannibal, and as Warhippy stated, the medical team should be the ones who bear the brunt of their decisions by living with him, especially when Will (Vince) forgets to take his diazepam and takes a bite out of the mailman, or anyone else that the aliens and Jesus are telling Vince to free from their bodies.

 

Tim McLean is still dead, and how he died is still imprinted into the minds of those who witnessed it, including one officer who took his own life after the fact. Li caused that.

 

I couldn't give two $&!#s about how much of a model citizen he's become, or how repentant he is for the brutal slaughter and partial consumption of another human being. If Tim's family has to live life without him, than Li has to bear his punishment as well.

[Down by the River]

Is the requirement that he be forced to take medication for the rest of his life and to check in with a clinician once a week really that much of an infringement of his rights?

 

I don't have a problem with him being released. The idea that he should no longer have to report to a clinician, to me, is setting him up for failure and increasing risk to the public.

 

Yes, he says he understands the need to take his meds. However, what happens when stress hits? What happens when something in his environment goes wrong, someone recognizes him and physically/verbally attacks him? It is a lot easier to stay on meds when you have a team watching over you and helping you through daily struggles. That's great. That is the system working. But I don't understand why requiring continued use of meds and counseling is such an monumental restriction of freedoms. Moreover, if you understand the importance of staying on meds, wouldn't you want to have that team set up to help you?

[Sygvard]

30 minutes ago, Down by the River said:

Is the requirement that he be forced to take medication for the rest of his life and to check in with a clinician once a week really that much of an infringement of his rights?

 

I don't have a problem with him being released. The idea that he should no longer have to report to a clinician, to me, is setting him up for failure and increasing risk to the public.

 

Yes, he says he understands the need to take his meds. However, what happens when stress hits? What happens when something in his environment goes wrong, someone recognizes him and physically/verbally attacks him? It is a lot easier to stay on meds when you have a team watching over you and helping you through daily struggles. That's great. That is the system working. But I don't understand why requiring continued use of meds and counseling is such an monumental restriction of freedoms. Moreover, if you understand the importance of staying on meds, wouldn't you want to have that team set up to help you?

Absolutely. And Schizophrenia can be a tricky one, in that small lapses high a high probability of snowballing. He could be genuinely stable and committed to taking his meds every day. Then miss a couple doses completely by accident. Runs out of pills, car breaks down. Suddenly the voice of god tells him that not taking that dose was a fantastic idea, and he should continue to not take any more.  

 

Support and monitoring is super important even if you DON'T have the proven capacity for lethal violence. Which he very much does. 

[TimberWolf]

He's already proven he can't function in the world

[Qwags]

2 hours ago, S'all Good Man said:

"His medical team has said he has been a model patient and understands the need to continue to take anti-psychotic medication."

 

Well then, there you go...... yikes. 

Is that all it really takes? WTF.

[PhillipBlunt]

17 minutes ago, Qwags said:

Is that all it really takes? WTF.

Yeah. I know.

[Bo053]

I'm sure the bleeding hearts will make excuses for him again next time he decapitates someone.

People like this should not be out in public if they are that mental

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

If he is fully exonerated, Canada's justice system will be, without a doubt, an abysmal failure.

 

Regardless of his mental fragility, he's a homicidal cannibal, and as Warhippy stated, the medical team should be the ones who bear the brunt of their decisions by living with him, especially when Will (Vince) forgets to take his diazepam and takes a bite out of the mailman, or anyone else that the aliens and Jesus are telling Vince to free from their bodies.

 

Tim MacLean is still dead, and how he died is still imprinted into the minds of those who witnessed it, including one officer who took his own life after the fact. Li caused that.

 

I couldn't give two $&!#s about how much of a model citizen he's become, or how repentant he is for the brutal slaughter and partial consumption of another human being. If Tim's family has to live life without him, than Li has to bear his punishment as well.

Your idea of justice likely involves the death penalty.  It's an eye for an eye mentality.  I have my own concerns with this specific case, but in general I'm thankful the Canadian justice system doesn't agree with your barbarism.

[PhillipBlunt]

3 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Your idea of justice likely involves the death penalty.  It's an eye for an eye mentality.  I have my own concerns with this specific case, but in general I'm thankful the Canadian justice system doesn't agree with your barbarism.

Your assumptions are pathetic and reactionary. Not likely, but truly.

 

Li should be incarcerated for his crime, regardless of his mental health. The fact that he inches closer and closer to absolute freedom is a joke. Who knows, maybe one day you'll find yourself sitting next to him on a bus.

[canuck204]

All I can say after reading all of the comments and knowing about the attack because it happened in my home province (Manitoba), I will say one thing. 

 

Speculating what we think is right or wrong is fine, but let's not all act like we have the right answer. There are medical professionals that have studied and worked in the field that have their reputation on the line. They are responsible to some degree for his behavior post incident and I really don't see them giving him any more freedom than he already has is he is not fully rehabilitated and capable. 

 

He already has almost full freedom so maybe this has been a shock to a lot of people who weren't familiar with this story before. This is certainly a fascinating case though. Definitely mixed feelings even though I trust the system. 

 

I guess I would just like some kind of proof he is taking his meds. I don't think that is a very unreasonable expectation. Full freedom but somehow track his meds, and if he slips up he would obviously need to be apprehended and stripped of his privileges.  That's just my uneducated opinion though. It sounds like he is a functional human in our society when hes on meds. 

 

 

[Gurn]

Just now, PhillipBlunt said:

Your assumptions are pathetic and reactionary. Not likely, but truly.

 

Li should be incarcerated for his crime, regardless of his mental health. The fact that he inches closer and closer to absolute freedom is a joke. Who knows, maybe one day you'll find yourself sitting next to him on a bus.

Which would be ok, as long as he was on his meds. That is the only part of him being 'free" that has any concern to me. A to the 'Free" part, this is a guy that will live the rest of his life knowing he took another's life; and judging by the emotional trauma war vets experience, that isn't a 'free' ride.

Have a way of ensuring he takes his meds and leave him alone.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Qwags said:

Is that all it really takes? WTF.

What else is he going to say? No doc, I think I might risk hacking someone else's head off cuz you know, its hard to remember pills EVERY day. 

 

The guy has shown what he's capable of, and unless you can guarantee he is on his meds he should not be let out. Seems pretty simple. 

[PhillipBlunt]

2 hours ago, gurn said:

Which would be ok, as long as he was on his meds. That is the only part of him being 'free" that has any concern to me.

To a certain extent. I've read interviews with staff that have worked with him, and when pressed with the question "Do you think Li could have another psychotic episode?", their response wasn't one of absolute certainty. More so a "most likely, if he continues to take his medication" type answer.

Quote

A to the 'Free" part, this is a guy that will live the rest of his life knowing he took another's life; and judging by the emotional trauma war vets experience, that isn't a 'free' ride.

With all due respect, comparing the actions of war veterans to someone who transgressed into a homicidal cannibal is ridiculous and could be considered insulting to people who've suffered PTSD in combat.

 

Speaking of "no free ride", what of Tim McLean's parents and extended family, or the other passengers on the Greyhound that night, or the RCMP officers responding to the slaughter? To me, the trauma inflicted on the innocent will always hold precedent.

Quote

Have a way of ensuring he takes his meds and leave him alone.

The best way to ensure that Li takes his meds? Incarceration. Done.