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D. Sedin: "I know people say we're too old, we're done"


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3 hours ago, drummerboy said:

When a piece of machinery goes down in the factory, you replace it.  

You may not like thinking about a person like that, but reality is, when it stops working, it's time for it to go.  

While this is very true, here's what you have to consider as part of that - machines can be ordered specifically to what is needed without question.   You need a part and you tell them what part (or machine) and then get that replacement.

 

When you replace athletes, you don't KNOW what you're getting in replacement.  You can't specify and then get exactly as ordered and, often, it varies a great deal to what you thought you were getting.

 

The Sedins haven't stopped working...they've slowed down.  And it's not as easy as plug and play.  They're passing the torch in a way that allows Bo to flourish without putting too much of the pressure on him.  They're grooming him and, obviously, it's paying off.  

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4 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I think the twins still have more in them than they are showing.  I still believe they can be 60 point players in the league.  I think they need a kick in the butt to get going again, a wake up call.  Right now they are giving all the opportunity in the world without having any consequences if they don't perform.  We should be lighting a fire under them and letting them know if they don't produce they will be replaced. 

 

We did something similar with Burrows, a few seasons ago it looked like it was all but over for him, he got demoted and has worked his way back.  Lets do the same things with the twins, enough of giving them to royal treatment.  Split them up, demote them, it doesn't matter, send a message to them. 

 

Flames did that early in the year with Monahan dropping him to the forth line giving him less than 15 minutes for a stretch of 5 games,  Monahan responded with 27 points (14 goals) in 33 games,  They did the same thing with Johnny last night, dropping him to the fourth line. 

 

Sometimes players get set in the same routine that they start going through the motions instead of digging in to the game.  Sometimes what's needed is a jump start or a shock to rejuvenate the adrenaline in their game.

I would be all for that. Make them accountable just like everyone else on the team. No more pouting and deciding you are not going to play %100 on some nights. Edler has a tendancy to do that as well.

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42 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I think the twins still have more in them than they are showing.  I still believe they can be 60 point players in the league.  I think they need a kick in the butt to get going again, a wake up call.  Right now they are giving all the opportunity in the world without having any consequences if they don't perform.  We should be lighting a fire under them and letting them know if they don't produce they will be replaced. 

 

We did something similar with Burrows, a few seasons ago it looked like it was all but over for him, he got demoted and has worked his way back.  Lets do the same things with the twins, enough of giving them to royal treatment.  Split them up, demote them, it doesn't matter, send a message to them. 

 

Flames did that early in the year with Monahan dropping him to the forth line giving him less than 15 minutes for a stretch of 5 games,  Monahan responded with 27 points (14 goals) in 33 games,  They did the same thing with Johnny last night, dropping him to the fourth line. 

 

Sometimes players get set in the same routine that they start going through the motions instead of digging in to the game.  Sometimes what's needed is a jump start or a shock to rejuvenate the adrenaline in their game.

 

I think it's a few things. Some of it is that they're certainly a bit older, slower and more predictable. I don't know if they need a kick in the butt per se....they're two of the hardest working guys in the league. They could perhaps use something to 'shake them up' and break the monotony/routine though. Not likely to happen with Bo hurt now though. And I still think Hansen would compliment them best (although he looks REAL good with Horvat as well, so I can't fault WD for that). Perhaps with Bo out, we see them back together?

 

Besides that they haven't had a consistent line mate all year and besides Hansen, they've been an untalented but fast/hard working plug in Megna or skilled but uncomplimentary Eriksson, a hardworking but again, uncomplimentary (and better at C on his own line) Sutter and finally now a good but still not ideal Granlund. All on a rebuilding and oft injury plagued team were they're both sheltering (decently talented but not plentiful yet) kids and tasked with still being the main offensive thrust on the team.

 

They could certainly be doing better but that's a lot to ask a couple 36 year olds.

 

And again, while Horvat's doing great, he doesn't make a 1st line alone and Hansen/Burr are not long term solutions there. I also hope folks note the type of players Horvat has had the most success with as well. North/South, hard working, counter punching guys like Hansen, Burr (as well as guys like Dorsett and Kenins before he fell off a cliff and hopefully, eventually, maybe Virtanen). HIm and Baer 'work' together simply because they're both talented...I don't really see them as a terribly ideal fit.

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19 hours ago, Alflives said:

That's an interesting idea, but maybe Bo ends up covering the defensive liability of the Twins, and that restricts his offence?

I doubt it. Bo is still able to produce points despite being on the PK, he leads the team in PK goals and points. So playing with the offensive minded Sedins would only elevate each other's' games IMHO. 

 

Bo covering for them would allow them to get more scoring chances since they wouldn't be in their own zone the whole time trying to get into the opposition's zone.

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17 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

I think it's a few things. Some of it is that they're certainly a bit older, slower and more predictable. I don't know if they need a kick in the butt per se....they're two of the hardest working guys in the league. They could perhaps use something to 'shake them up' and break the monotony/routine though. Not likely to happen with Bo hurt now though. And I still think Hansen would compliment them best (although he looks REAL good with Horvat as well, so I can't fault WD for that). Perhaps with Bo out, we see them back together?

 

Besides that they haven't had a consistent line mate all year and besides Hansen, they've been an untalented but fast/hard working plug in Megna or skilled but uncomplimentary Eriksson, a hardworking but again, uncomplimentary (and better at C on his own line) Sutter and finally now a good but still not ideal Granlund. All on a rebuilding and oft injury plagued team were they're both sheltering (decently talented but not plentiful yet) kids and tasked with still being the main offensive thrust on the team.

 

They could certainly be doing better but that's a lot to ask a couple 36 year olds.

 

And again, while Horvat's doing great, he doesn't make a 1st line alone and Hansen/Burr are not long term solutions there. I also hope folks note the type of players Horvat has had the most success with as well. North/South, hard working, counter punching guys like Hansen, Burr (as well as guys like Dorsett and Kenins before he fell off a cliff and hopefully, eventually, maybe Virtanen). HIm and Baer 'work' together simply because they're both talented...I don't really see them as a terribly ideal fit.

Wow just Wow! I quit counting how many excuses you made for them. It appears it is EVERYONE ELSES FAULT and we are just asking too much of them. Is your name really Daniel or Henrik? :lol:

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5 hours ago, drummerboy said:

A little over aggressive don't you think?  

This is a business we are talking about.  

When a piece of machinery goes down in the factory, you replace it.  

You may not like thinking about a person like that, but reality is, when it stops working, it's time for it to go.  

 

Thats not to say we have to $&!# on them and throw them out the door, they deserve way better than that for all they have done over the years, but it is getting very obvious they are beginning to out stay their welcome.   

 

If their defensive game game was still great, and they could back check and play a solid d game while putting up 30ish points, that would be great.  

But they aren't.  They are so slow they are becoming a liability. 

 

It is really sad to see, as they have given me some of the best hockey viewing experiences of my life.    

 

All this being said, their situation they are in is 100% the fault of old management who wasted years of draft picks with nothing to show for it.  

We should have their replacements developed and ready to go by now. 

I don't think it was over aggressive that was my response to someone who as you say wants to "$&!# on them and throw them out the door" if you are of the opinion that their time here has run it's course that's fine. There's just no need to $&!# talk them on the forums.

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6 hours ago, Rocksterh8 said:

I'm so sick of fans like you with you're emotional feelings getting in the way of a team actually trying to win a championship. You can like what they have done for the team in their prime, but they have done what they loved doing for many years, making more money than most people ever dream of and they will have a great life when they are done, but the team does not owe them anything. I don't blame them for their position on the team, that goes to the GM, but for them to not admit that they are slowing down is just ridiculous. Just like you are. People pay big money to watch this team try to win a Cup, not watch players get older and slower on the ice and not even admit it.

 

You are a narrow minded person with no vision.

there are no feelings getting in the way, players come and go and if you think their time here is up, that's fine but as another poster said There is no need to $&!# on them and throw them out the door, which is what you seem eager to do.

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6 minutes ago, Nucksfollower1983 said:

there are no feelings getting in the way, players come and go and if you think their time here is up, that's fine but as another poster said There is no need to $&!# on them and throw them out the door, which is what you seem eager to do.

You obviously don't understand what you read, as I never said that. I suggest improving you're comprehension before you spout off untruths. 

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I think the Sedins, Canucks coaching and management need to watch games like the Penguins game and realize that the Sedins are no longer top-6 forwards.

 

They are 2nd-3rd liners at the very best in the NHL. 

 

Looking around the league, you wouldn't sign or use a third line to try and score goals. You use third lines to ideally start by playing good defence, check well, don't get scored on and if they can manage to stay relatively even in terms of being scored upon, then the occasional goal for is a nice surprise. But it starts with defence. 

 

This is what we need to do with the twins now. Not over-work them 18-20 minutes a game. No third line gets that. We have to stop trying to put a scorer on their line. They're not elite scorers anymore. They're 3rd liners now who can score.

 

We need the Sedins to focus on defence first, with the mentality of scoring the occasional goal. But #1 priority for them now must be DEFENDING. Back-checking, dumping and chasing (or letting their linemate chase) and passing. Sure, it gets away from their fundamentals of puck possession, but they're far too slow and not skilled passers anymore to play that style of game. We saw them try against Pittsburgh and they were eaten up by back-checkers in the neutral zone, swallowed by defenders without a single offensive chance, and struggled defensively big time. They need to start playing a much safer game defensively, don't get scored on, and let our top two lines try to do the offence-making.

 

It'll be a big hurdle for them to change their game but this is how they have to adapt to a faster NHL as older players.

 

It can start when Bo and Sutter return, and giving them a linemate who can skate fast and play good defence. We know, however, that whoever plays with them won't score much and their offence will be sucked dry. Maybe give someone like Megna, Gaunce, Chaput or Skille a shot there if they're happy to help primarily chasing (from a dump in) or back-checking. Hansen would be nice but we need his offence in the top-6.

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Many posters here have for last few years posted about the upcoming disaster status of our clubs forwards.

These posters wanted valuable older players moved for younger players to rebuild the club.  Unfortunately the club held on to its older players - gave NTC's etc...

 

 

People called these posters doom and gloomers ,  tankers ,  pessimists...    People told these posters to get lost and go support the LEAFS.

 

Fact is, these posters just saw into the future and commented on it.

 

Well now we are in that future and it is not pretty.......

 

Looking forward to our clubs next Sedins.  Our next top line in its prime.....

 

Don't see it  but still looking forward to that day....

 

Hammer away at me. I am used to it here. 

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11 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Many posters here have for last few years posted about the upcoming disaster status of our clubs forwards.

These posters wanted valuable older players moved for younger players to rebuild the club.  Unfortunately the club held on to its older players - gave NTC's etc...

 

 

People called these posters doom and gloomers ,  tankers ,  pessimists...    People told these posters to get lost and go support the LEAFS.

 

Fact is, these posters just saw into the future and commented on it.

 

Well now we are in that future and it is not pretty.......

 

Looking forward to our clubs next Sedins.  Our next top line in its prime.....

 

Don't see it  but still looking forward to that day....

 

Hammer away at me. I am used to it here. 

You're absolutely right and I appreciate fans like you that tell it like it is without the rose coloured glasses. I really hope management see's this and does not re-sign them, they can play in Finland if they still want to play like they have said before. They were great players but there time has passed. 

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16 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

Many posters here have for last few years posted about the upcoming disaster status of our clubs forwards.

These posters wanted valuable older players moved for younger players to rebuild the club.  Unfortunately the club held on to its older players - gave NTC's etc...

 

 

People called these posters doom and gloomers ,  tankers ,  pessimists...    People told these posters to get lost and go support the LEAFS.

 

Fact is, these posters just saw into the future and commented on it.

 

Well now we are in that future and it is not pretty.......

 

Looking forward to our clubs next Sedins.  Our next top line in its prime.....

 

Don't see it  but still looking forward to that day....

 

Hammer away at me. I am used to it here. 

You are correct I am actually totally surprised how much the Sedins have dropped off this year. Last year they were slow but they still had that skill level. Its either they are not playing hard or they really have lost something. I am not looking forward to next year unless JB can pull off some miracle trade for a forward upgrade.

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On 2/13/2017 at 5:34 PM, Nucksfollower1983 said:

man I am so sick of garbage fans like you. you are exactly the type that give this fan base a bad rep. players get old and their production declines, its not their fault this teams drafting was crap for years and no successors were found to replace them and now they are stuck in the position of having to fill a role they are no longer suited for. ideally they would be our second or third line right now but that's not the reality. I remember when trash like you gave the same treatment to Naslund when he was past his prime. So quick to turn on people who gave everything they had to this team and city but as soon as those numbers drop, out come the torches and pitchforks. &^@#ing disgusting.

Have you taken a look lately at how they play defensively? Have you not seen the number of plays where they have been either downright lazy or unable to make half an effort? You're talking like people are blaming them for aging. No - they are our supposed leaders, and the least they could do is set a good example by playing proper defense. First line or fourth line, some of their defensive plays have been downright atrocious. Of course, to some people, they are beyond criticism because their last names are Sedin. But I'm sure you know how much money they make , how much PP time they get, and how they have no PK responsibilities. There is no reason why they should not be criticized for the way they play. Sure you sound big for saying the usual drivel, but I suggest you open your eyes and start seeing them as actual players with actual responsibilities rather as some kind of deities.

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Did any one notice Pittsburgh's cycle tonight? It wasn't a stationary in the corners cycle, it was a very quick rotating cycle that moved out to the harsh marks then into the corner, then the other corner, then the point, into the middle, all the time the players were rotating 'QUICKLY" and the puck was actually stretching the play, it was a much larger circle, almost like it wasn't a circle. LOL Somewhat like watching the Hawks.

 

In today's NHL, defensemen have been trained to react to a tight cycle in junior, the elite have seen it at the worlds in high speed, and by the time they get to the NHL, they are defensively aware of how to fend it, and the only way to break down that "AWARENESS" is to do it at a very high speed, aka Pitts and Hawks style and skill level...

 

We call all thank the Sedin's for really bringing that "tight" cycling into the NHL, but they have now slowed down and are seemly useless against elite defensemen, and are actually having a tougher time against #3+4's

 

It is somewhat sad to witness such greatness diminish 

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Now's the best time more than ever before to split up the Sedins. Their offence coming from passing and the cycle is essentially gone now so you lose nothing by breaking that up.

 

Defensively, by splitting the Sedins, you only have 1 slow back-checker on each line as opposed to two which has really killed us on many goals. Having one of the Sedins as a designated "first-man in, last man out" sort of system works because we can at least have 2 forwards skating back to defend while the slower Sedin lingers back.

 

Use the Sedins strong-points (playmaking, passing) to our advantage, and cover up their weak-points (slow, bad defence) with other players strong points.

 

With Horvat, Baertschi and Sutter back lets try this:

 

Daniel Sedin - Horvat - Baertschi

 

Daniel is the playmaker/set up man, Horvat and Baertschi can both shoot, Horvat is the net front presence. Daniel doesn't control the play as much as Horvat but rather complements the others with setting them/point men up. When the puck goes the other way, we've got our best 2-way guys in Horvat and Baertschi back checking and fighting hard - something the Sedins struggle with now so lets help them out.

 

Granlund - Sutter - Hansen

 

This is our 2nd line and has all the tools. Granlund is a sick shooter/sniper but clever playmaker so can do the shooting or passing. Sutter is a fantastic shooter but also solid defensive center. Hansen doesn't really have the skill to finish plays but can playmake a bit, mainly he's here to free up ice for the other two as a very decent crease-presence or powerforward.

 

Eriksson - Henrik Sedin - Gaunce

 

Essentially our 3rd line but each player brings a unique element to the line that has been tried and tested in the past. Henrik is the playmaker. Eriksson is the shooter. Gaunce is the powerforward. Gaunce has shown and will continue to do so with Bo out that he has the skill to contend in this league as a decent forward consistently. He's smart. He's big. He's strong. Most importantly he's sound defensively and a great PKer. You put Henrik, who's slow back-checking, with two great two-way defensive forwards, and you've got a good mix. Could replace Gaunce with Hansen but I think we need Hansen on our 2nd line to score more goals.

 

Megna - Chaput - Skille/Boucher

 

To be honest doesn't matter, they're all AHL guys who have actually played pretty well so far. Play 7-10 minutes a game, don't get scored on, that's their only real job.

 

 

 

TL;DR - the Sedins defence is their weak-point but they're still good enough passers. Lets use their advantages to benefit the team and cover up their disadvantages with the team's great play (we have a LOT of good two-way defensive forwards). It's stupid just putting the Sedins together and amplifying their weaknesses, while the rest of the forwards go hungry without a decent playmaker.

 

WD shake your head, make a ballsy move like this or we simply aren't making the playoffs. He doesn't really have the guts to pull something off like this but if he wants to make it in this league and eventually do well in the playoffs, WD has to be willing to try something like this.

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I don't blame the Sedins for wanting to play.

 

I don't blame them for wanting to be on the first line.

 

It's not up to them to determine the lineup... it's up to the coach.

 

WD is the problem.  He has to make the decisions and make the Sedins understand their role.

 

They should be told they are not first line anymore, they should be told they have to adapt their game... even if it means being split up.

 

They should understand they will be playing less minutes... because they are too old to play first line minutes anymore.

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