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D. Sedin: "I know people say we're too old, we're done"


Sedin Brothers

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24 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Now's the best time more than ever before to split up the Sedins. Their offence coming from passing and the cycle is essentially gone now so you lose nothing by breaking that up.

 

Defensively, by splitting the Sedins, you only have 1 slow back-checker on each line as opposed to two which has really killed us on many goals. Having one of the Sedins as a designated "first-man in, last man out" sort of system works because we can at least have 2 forwards skating back to defend while the slower Sedin lingers back.

 

Use the Sedins strong-points (playmaking, passing) to our advantage, and cover up their weak-points (slow, bad defence) with other players strong points.

 

With Horvat, Baertschi and Sutter back lets try this:

 

Daniel Sedin - Horvat - Baertschi

 

Daniel is the playmaker/set up man, Horvat and Baertschi can both shoot, Horvat is the net front presence. Daniel doesn't control the play as much as Horvat but rather complements the others with setting them/point men up. When the puck goes the other way, we've got our best 2-way guys in Horvat and Baertschi back checking and fighting hard - something the Sedins struggle with now so lets help them out.

 

Granlund - Sutter - Hansen

 

This is our 2nd line and has all the tools. Granlund is a sick shooter/sniper but clever playmaker so can do the shooting or passing. Sutter is a fantastic shooter but also solid defensive center. Hansen doesn't really have the skill to finish plays but can playmake a bit, mainly he's here to free up ice for the other two as a very decent crease-presence or powerforward.

 

Eriksson - Henrik Sedin - Gaunce

 

Essentially our 3rd line but each player brings a unique element to the line that has been tried and tested in the past. Henrik is the playmaker. Eriksson is the shooter. Gaunce is the powerforward. Gaunce has shown and will continue to do so with Bo out that he has the skill to contend in this league as a decent forward consistently. He's smart. He's big. He's strong. Most importantly he's sound defensively and a great PKer. You put Henrik, who's slow back-checking, with two great two-way defensive forwards, and you've got a good mix. Could replace Gaunce with Hansen but I think we need Hansen on our 2nd line to score more goals.

 

Megna - Chaput - Skille/Boucher

 

To be honest doesn't matter, they're all AHL guys who have actually played pretty well so far. Play 7-10 minutes a game, don't get scored on, that's their only real job.

 

 

 

TL;DR - the Sedins defence is their weak-point but they're still good enough passers. Lets use their advantages to benefit the team and cover up their disadvantages with the team's great play (we have a LOT of good two-way defensive forwards). It's stupid just putting the Sedins together and amplifying their weaknesses, while the rest of the forwards go hungry without a decent playmaker.

 

WD shake your head, make a ballsy move like this or we simply aren't making the playoffs. He doesn't really have the guts to pull something off like this but if he wants to make it in this league and eventually do well in the playoffs, WD has to be willing to try something like this.

Where's Burrows?

 

I would put him in Gaunce's spot and move Gaunce down to the 4th line in place of Megna/Skille/Boucher.

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1 hour ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Now's the best time more than ever before to split up the Sedins. Their offence coming from passing and the cycle is essentially gone now so you lose nothing by breaking that up.

 

Defensively, by splitting the Sedins, you only have 1 slow back-checker on each line as opposed to two which has really killed us on many goals. Having one of the Sedins as a designated "first-man in, last man out" sort of system works because we can at least have 2 forwards skating back to defend while the slower Sedin lingers back.

 

Use the Sedins strong-points (playmaking, passing) to our advantage, and cover up their weak-points (slow, bad defence) with other players strong points.

 

With Horvat, Baertschi and Sutter back lets try this:

 

Daniel Sedin - Horvat - Baertschi

 

Daniel is the playmaker/set up man, Horvat and Baertschi can both shoot, Horvat is the net front presence. Daniel doesn't control the play as much as Horvat but rather complements the others with setting them/point men up. When the puck goes the other way, we've got our best 2-way guys in Horvat and Baertschi back checking and fighting hard - something the Sedins struggle with now so lets help them out.

 

Granlund - Sutter - Hansen

 

This is our 2nd line and has all the tools. Granlund is a sick shooter/sniper but clever playmaker so can do the shooting or passing. Sutter is a fantastic shooter but also solid defensive center. Hansen doesn't really have the skill to finish plays but can playmake a bit, mainly he's here to free up ice for the other two as a very decent crease-presence or powerforward.

 

Eriksson - Henrik Sedin - Gaunce

 

Essentially our 3rd line but each player brings a unique element to the line that has been tried and tested in the past. Henrik is the playmaker. Eriksson is the shooter. Gaunce is the powerforward. Gaunce has shown and will continue to do so with Bo out that he has the skill to contend in this league as a decent forward consistently. He's smart. He's big. He's strong. Most importantly he's sound defensively and a great PKer. You put Henrik, who's slow back-checking, with two great two-way defensive forwards, and you've got a good mix. Could replace Gaunce with Hansen but I think we need Hansen on our 2nd line to score more goals.

 

Megna - Chaput - Skille/Boucher

 

To be honest doesn't matter, they're all AHL guys who have actually played pretty well so far. Play 7-10 minutes a game, don't get scored on, that's their only real job.

 

 

 

TL;DR - the Sedins defence is their weak-point but they're still good enough passers. Lets use their advantages to benefit the team and cover up their disadvantages with the team's great play (we have a LOT of good two-way defensive forwards). It's stupid just putting the Sedins together and amplifying their weaknesses, while the rest of the forwards go hungry without a decent playmaker.

 

WD shake your head, make a ballsy move like this or we simply aren't making the playoffs. He doesn't really have the guts to pull something off like this but if he wants to make it in this league and eventually do well in the playoffs, WD has to be willing to try something like this.

Agree completely... the season is done... now WD should try some new matchups.

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2 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Now's the best time more than ever before to split up the Sedins. Their offence coming from passing and the cycle is essentially gone now so you lose nothing by breaking that up.

 

Defensively, by splitting the Sedins, you only have 1 slow back-checker on each line as opposed to two which has really killed us on many goals. Having one of the Sedins as a designated "first-man in, last man out" sort of system works because we can at least have 2 forwards skating back to defend while the slower Sedin lingers back.

 

Use the Sedins strong-points (playmaking, passing) to our advantage, and cover up their weak-points (slow, bad defence) with other players strong points.

 

With Horvat, Baertschi and Sutter back lets try this:

 

Daniel Sedin - Horvat - Baertschi

 

Daniel is the playmaker/set up man, Horvat and Baertschi can both shoot, Horvat is the net front presence. Daniel doesn't control the play as much as Horvat but rather complements the others with setting them/point men up. When the puck goes the other way, we've got our best 2-way guys in Horvat and Baertschi back checking and fighting hard - something the Sedins struggle with now so lets help them out.

 

Granlund - Sutter - Hansen

 

This is our 2nd line and has all the tools. Granlund is a sick shooter/sniper but clever playmaker so can do the shooting or passing. Sutter is a fantastic shooter but also solid defensive center. Hansen doesn't really have the skill to finish plays but can playmake a bit, mainly he's here to free up ice for the other two as a very decent crease-presence or powerforward.

 

Eriksson - Henrik Sedin - Gaunce

 

Essentially our 3rd line but each player brings a unique element to the line that has been tried and tested in the past. Henrik is the playmaker. Eriksson is the shooter. Gaunce is the powerforward. Gaunce has shown and will continue to do so with Bo out that he has the skill to contend in this league as a decent forward consistently. He's smart. He's big. He's strong. Most importantly he's sound defensively and a great PKer. You put Henrik, who's slow back-checking, with two great two-way defensive forwards, and you've got a good mix. Could replace Gaunce with Hansen but I think we need Hansen on our 2nd line to score more goals.

 

Megna - Chaput - Skille/Boucher

 

To be honest doesn't matter, they're all AHL guys who have actually played pretty well so far. Play 7-10 minutes a game, don't get scored on, that's their only real job.

 

 

 

TL;DR - the Sedins defence is their weak-point but they're still good enough passers. Lets use their advantages to benefit the team and cover up their disadvantages with the team's great play (we have a LOT of good two-way defensive forwards). It's stupid just putting the Sedins together and amplifying their weaknesses, while the rest of the forwards go hungry without a decent playmaker.

 

WD shake your head, make a ballsy move like this or we simply aren't making the playoffs. He doesn't really have the guts to pull something off like this but if he wants to make it in this league and eventually do well in the playoffs, WD has to be willing to try something like this.

Prob TWO yrs ago was the best time..but we'll never know, cos it was never really tried.

 

Had been campaigning for this concept for yrs..took a lot of flak, & it never happened. C'est la vie.

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1 hour ago, Bang Bang Boogie said:

Where's Burrows?

 

I would put him in Gaunce's spot and move Gaunce down to the 4th line in place of Megna/Skille/Boucher.

Someone's got to go at the TD...kidding, my mistake.

 

I'd do that too, Burrows on the 3rd line as an energy boost and kick in Eriksson's pants is exactly what he might need. He hasn't really played with a true spark plug much this season apart from brief stints with Hansen.

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It's possible that split up the Sedins could actually extend their careers and effectiveness.  As others have said, they are a defensive liability and offensively, too slow.  But if split, there are 4 players on the ice to compensate and cover for them and their linemates can create space and time for them to do their passing thing. 

 

It is a shame that either the coach or the twins themselves refuse to even try this. Even on the PP they are seldom able to generate any meaningful pressure or grade A chances.

 

They may deny age has caught up to them and that they are still generating chances but they are a shadow of what they were 4 years ago. 

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2 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

I don't blame the Sedins for wanting to play.

 

I don't blame them for wanting to be on the first line.

 

It's not up to them to determine the lineup... it's up to the coach.

 

WD is the problem.  He has to make the decisions and make the Sedins understand their role.

 

They should be told they are not first line anymore, they should be told they have to adapt their game... even if it means being split up.

 

They should understand they will be playing less minutes... because they are too old to play first line minutes anymore.

You need to notify opposing coaches of that. They still play their top defenders against them. When they stop doing that and play them against another line you'll know the Sedins are no longer our top line. lol

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3 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

WD shake your head, make a ballsy move like this or we simply aren't making the playoffs. He doesn't really have the guts to pull something off like this but if he wants to make it in this league and eventually do well in the playoffs, WD has to be willing to try something like this.

With both Horvat and Sutter out of the lineup, and a handful of games to the deadline, I don't see us making the playoffs. I like to be a positive fan but I'm also a realist. With those two out it makes the mountain too high to climb.

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18 minutes ago, Baggins said:

No longer being top line quality does not equal done.

I agree. (even though that's not what I said)

Those 2 guys can no longer carry this team. It sucks but it's the truth and everyone knows it.
I'm saying that pride, either on their part, or on managements part, should not dictate their ice time and/or their position on this team as top tier contributors - because they no longer are,

We have too many players still hanging around since 2011. It's time to cut loose but the whole aura around this team smells like a beta chode with oneitis who just can't let go of his girl no matter how bad it gets. 
Any adult knows how that show ends.....

The point was to have these aging vets teach the kids the ropes and the "right way to play". Burr is certainly a good example there, but Hank and Danny look finished here. They need to be reigned in to be effective players at this point.
Bo's line is ready. Give it to them. Let's hope Boeser is the real deal, signs with us next year and throw him right onto that top line and let them run with it. 

Bo's ELC is already up and the team hasn't gotten anywhere. Time for change is overdue.

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Its true the sedins can still be productive players but as second liners. If we had better scouting and development thru the years that is where they would be playing. And Horvat and a couple of 24-25 year olds would be driving the bus. Unfortunately that is not the case and there's scores of people to blame going back to Nonnis. Willies done a fair job with what he's got but could be doing so much better if he had a good handle on who was going on a particular night and starting with the right pp combos. I'm not sure why its so obvious to everybody but the guys in charge. His argument for not playing Bo in the last minute of games where we're behind or ahead by just a goal he justifies by giving exact ice times for all the players involved. My God the guy is only 21 or 22 yrs. old I believe, is as strong as a bull and skates as good as anyone and he can't send him out late in games when we're either leading or protecting.God forbid he has to take out his right hand shot in Sutter or his 6 mil man Erikson. You want you best player out there for sure in those situations. You make room for him, don't justify why you're not playing him. I know I'm all over the place but just a comment to finish. The twins are not the offensive players they once were, I don't know why Willie won't admit that, he keeps saying that they've done it in the past. Yes they have but that was 5 years ago and players have a shelf life, and they've proven in the last couple of years that their game is tapering off, especially after xmas so what gives WD the impression they're all of a sudden gonna be the players they were 5-6 years ago. And they are quickly becoming our worst defensive forwards. They must have the most giveaways by forwards because their passes have got even weaker this year and they're not thinking the game as quickly, hence more giveaways because everybody know Henrik passes to Daniel, Daniel looks to Henrik.

 

s.

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52 minutes ago, darkpoet said:

I agree. (even though that's not what I said)

Those 2 guys can no longer carry this team. It sucks but it's the truth and everyone knows it.
I'm saying that pride, either on their part, or on managements part, should not dictate their ice time and/or their position on this team as top tier contributors - because they no longer are,

We have too many players still hanging around since 2011. It's time to cut loose but the whole aura around this team smells like a beta chode with oneitis who just can't let go of his girl no matter how bad it gets. 
Any adult knows how that show ends.....

The point was to have these aging vets teach the kids the ropes and the "right way to play". Burr is certainly a good example there, but Hank and Danny look finished here. They need to be reigned in to be effective players at this point.
Bo's line is ready. Give it to them. Let's hope Boeser is the real deal, signs with us next year and throw him right onto that top line and let them run with it. 

Bo's ELC is already up and the team hasn't gotten anywhere. Time for change is overdue.

As I've said many times: you'll know when Bo's is the top line, opposing coaches will play their best defenders against him instead of the Sedins. As much as it shouldn't be, the fact is the Sedins are still our top line. You can label any line you want as first line. It doesn't mean opposing coaches will buy it.

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2 hours ago, Baggins said:

As I've said many times: you'll know when Bo's is the top line, opposing coaches will play their best defenders against him instead of the Sedins. As much as it shouldn't be, the fact is the Sedins are still our top line. You can label any line you want as first line. It doesn't mean opposing coaches will buy it.

Except they are playing their best against them, not because they are hard to handle but because they probably see them as a weakness. It works both ways. These teams have more offense, even in their D than we do.

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I have loved the Sedins and their Sedinary for over a decade but enough is enough. - Please no more Sedins 2ND LINERS posts.

 

All that does is to transfer their weaknesses to the 2nd line. Personally I don't see the Sedins like most/all of the other teams 1st lines because they were always unique and had just enough speed to make that uniqueness and skill count. That is patently not now the case. They play on auto pilot at a pedestrian pace.

 

Other teams 1st liners not have had their special talents but they virtually all were faster more able to up their physicality in the SC and still managed to score goals (e.g. Iginla, Thornton, Jagr, Zetterberg, Marleau etc) 

 

That loss of speed now takes their game down to nearer 3rd/4th line value imo and then you have to ask do we even want them on the 3rd line where they will still be slow.

 

Ironically the ONLY way I could see them play another year or two in Vancouver is if they were split up. Dilute their weaknesses while still retaining their strengths.

 

But if I am being honest, I would rather we didn't take the risk. If we struggle at the outset after they have gone, too bad, I reckon we are set to struggle for another 2 years whether they are there or not and the sooner the better we bed in their replacements.

 

They are 36 years of age now, how long must the agony go on. Retire them at the top, after all we are not a bush league team where sentiment can make little difference. This is a hard nosed business and Linden should realise that and stop getting handcuffed by sentiment and misty eyed loyalty.

 

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4 hours ago, Baggins said:

As I've said many times: you'll know when Bo's is the top line, opposing coaches will play their best defenders against him instead of the Sedins. As much as it shouldn't be, the fact is the Sedins are still our top line. You can label any line you want as first line. It doesn't mean opposing coaches will buy it.

If you have to look to the opposing coaches decisions to know who our top line is then I don't know what to say to you. You just have to take a quick look at their stats and watch a few games to see the obvious.

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It is sad to see once dominant players on the down slope of their careers.  Its not only that they are getting old, the whole league has the book on them and has had lots of games to practice shutting them down.

 

Lots of people keep slamming these guys, and perhaps that is sort of deserved when they are eating up all that cap space, but what do you expect them to do? Quit?  If you were Benning do you think you could find a trading partner to get rid of them?  Most likely they are here to stay until their contracts are up.

 

I think the more alarming thing is that despite their age, and their lack of speed, and their predictability, besides BO they remain (arguably) the Canucks' best forwards.

 

At the same time I think we need to show them a little more respect for what they have done for this community and organization.

 

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5 hours ago, Baggins said:

As I've said many times: you'll know when Bo's is the top line, opposing coaches will play their best defenders against him instead of the Sedins. As much as it shouldn't be, the fact is the Sedins are still our top line. You can label any line you want as first line. It doesn't mean opposing coaches will buy it.

What you say is obviously true. But many posters here apparently can't understand this. I guess in the minds of some, the change happens in some sort of official ceremony, where the first line torch, belt, or whatever is formally passed from one group to another. Probably on TV.

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