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[Discussion] Blow It Up.


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12 minutes ago, Jam126 said:

Guardian, quit now while you still can.

I take it you don't like the idea of "blowing it up". Of a total and faster rebuild and return to respectability? Canuck games are closer right now, how many times are they facing the back up goalie? How many goals will they get from center ice?

I am getting up there in years, fewer ahead than behind, after years of having patience and then watching other teams doing things that make a big difference over and over again, I start thinking "why not here?".

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When was this interview with Linden?  I'd like to hear it again.  Was it the summer summit 2 years ago?

 

I remember something about it not being fair to the Sedin's to blow it up.  I sometimes wonder how well Linden understands what Benning is doing.  Or maybe he just doesn't know how to respond to this fan base who want results in an unreasonably short time.  I also remember beating the hell out of this and going through the Leafs, Sabres and Oilers line ups and showing the vets that they've added back after dumping their old core players.  I remember clearly, the Leafs blow up, which was front office too, because Shanahan was frustrated with the dysfunction on the team and saw no other way.  The Canucks don't have this dysfunction.  Who would you move out in a blow up at this point anyways?  The Sedin's aren't moveable with their cap hit.

 

Are you trying to say that Benning has been holding back somehow with their draft picks.  I know a lot of people on here are disagreeing with Benning when he has given up picks and assets to try to make up for a 7 year black hole at the draft table.  I'm talking about players in their early 20's like Baertschi, Granlund, Gudbranson.  Granted he struck out with Vey and Etem.  Nobody is perfect at the draft table either.

 

I think that this is one of the biggest problems with the team that Benning inherited.  The tired old core that Torts was talking about would retire before most of the drafted players Horvat's age and younger were ready to have any kind of an impact. This is what makes the Canucks situation unique but is overlooked by so many people with your argument.  It makes the number of players coming up less but also eases the way for these young guys, having decent guys to follow.  Give them a bar to aim for and an opportunity for success.  This is also the point of having NHL fringe players like Skille, Megna and Chaput in the system.  Bottom line, it helps development.  Drafting high has no guarantees.  We see players busting from the top 10 every year.  You have to develop well.

 

If you go through the players that the Canucks have drafted, sure Horvat is the only one we can point to and truly say, this guy is core.  But there are lots of players, particularly drafted by Benning who have the potential to be good NHLers.  Hell, Boeser looks pretty damn good.  Juolevi has great qualities.  They're just young and you can't say there's nothing coming unless they blow it up.

 

What you are calling for is a change in strategy.  This is a recipe for disaster imo because it would leave Hovat too old for the new team.  If you're calling for a blow up, you're throwing away the last 4 years and we might as well start by trading Horvat.

 

Let's just stick with the plan.  It's actually working.  We don't need the Nervous Nellies calling for 4-6 years of good work to be scuttled.

 

 

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On 17/02/2017 at 4:17 PM, TheGuardian_ said:

The alternative is a death by a thousand cuts.

 

The return to respectability will still take until 2020 IF management does it now and 2023 for a possible cup run. At that, there is a good chance that the team will not have the same high skill leveled individual players as Calgary, Winnipeg, Edmonton or Chicago, they will be unlikely to have that point per game player(s). That means the team should plan to make itself a 4 line scoring team, that requires an adjustment to conventional coaching, drafting and smart cap management.

 

While Colorado SHOULD be a good example of this concept, they still have a major problem, it could be with melding ego's, erratic changes in coaching styles, poor goaltending, to leadership, either not enough or too much. That's right, it is possible to have too much leadership, too many "cliques" in the room, too much pointing of the fingers.

 

One of the reason's for this plan is that there are no players coming up through the next couple drafts that are considered "franchise" players at this time, so there will be no quick, one draft and boom, winning.

 

Two things can't really be taught, god gifted speed and size,. Coaching styles can make "teams", help players nullify weaknesses, create "hockey sense". Worst case here would be to become the NJD of old or Canucks under AV's first 3 years, so dull that the joke was the Canucks should have to give up a 1rst round draft pick as compensation for being so defensive minded, dull and boring.

 

The team could opt for trying to rebuild by using the expansion draft to grab players like Silverberg, sign FA's like Taveras, trade for players like Hanzal and Boyle, stock pile picks hoping to get another Hansen or dig up a Tanev, Burrows or other late blooming college kid(s). While this might work to re-establish a possible playoff spot quicker, it is still delaying the inevitable need for a over haul in a couple of years and lowering expectations to merely making the playoffs as the ultimate management goal.

 

Another option can be to over pay for 22 to 25 year old 1rst and 2nd line NHL players that have proven NHL production over 3 or 4 years. Not one hit wonders like Vey was where points were gifted via PP time or "star" AHLer's who usually make pretty good 4th liners and so so 3rd liners.

 

Management's feet are being held to the fire now, they shouldn't just dip a toe in the water, they should jump in, do the dirty work all at once, if done properly the fans will understand, if done piecemeal then they chance alienating the fans slowly but with more finality, right now it won't be too hard to change hearts and minds but keep offering up the disrespect currently being shown and it may take another "for a quarter" type speech again.

 

All players over 29 should be given the opportunity for a cup with other teams.

 

 

  

 

If we blow it up the only players if trade are Hansen Burrows Miller Edler right now. As we get better or in 2-3 year's id trade Tanev sutter. If keep the Sedins tho cuz they'll look good on our eventual 3rd line 

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On 2/18/2017 at 11:46 AM, TheGuardian_ said:

...

I haven't tried to make it easy by thinking for other posters, the thread is supposed to be vague, I am not doing your thinking for you, it is not a simply yes or no idea. There has to be forward thinking, not just the next game or next season but further than that. It is a management plan type thread.

I accept that I get negative votes for "stating the obvious" but no else seems to start a conversation about the "obvious". I start a conversation about the need to trade the Sedins before most others and get dozens and dozens of negative votes, now the idea is everywhere. I post what I think will happen during the season before the season even starts and get dozens and dozens of negative votes and yet the team is almost exactly where I guessed it would be and now it is a common thought. There is a pattern here, I am no oracle, but if  lowly dumb guy like me can get an idea of where the team is going to be, then maybe, IMO, all these negatives are really just posters upset that they missed the bus and don't like being made to look like lemmings. It is mostly the same group that are hitting the unhappy button.

 

If you don't think the team should be "blown up" state why you think it shouldn't and expand on the idea as to why it shouldn't, if not, they how many years should be offered up to see if it works or not, why you would buy tickets to watch a bottom feeder.

 

I am a fan of this team and of hockey, I have watched this team flounder for more years than they have excelled, I don't ever want to hear another "for a quarter" speech again, I don't want to listen to another "the absentee owner hires an accountant to run the team" again. What I do want to hear is "and the Vancouver Canucks are going to the Stanley cup Finals". There is no need to repeat the mistakes of the past. Again, obvious mistakes.

Really? You're the first person to have thought up the idea to blow it up? You're the first person to suggest trading the Sedins? All these negatives are just because posters don't want to be lemmings? Sure...

 

The point is, this (and your other threads typically) have all been said before, only you're saying it again in a super vague, general way that doesn't really say anything. See, we've already had the discussion - multiple times - and if you aren't going to bring something fresh (or at least specific) to the discussion, why bother?

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6 minutes ago, elvis15 said:

Really? You're the first person to have thought up the idea to blow it up? You're the first person to suggest trading the Sedins? All these negatives are just because posters don't want to be lemmings? Sure...

 

The point is, this (and your other threads typically) have all been said before, only you're saying it again in a super vague, general way that doesn't really say anything. See, we've already had the discussion - multiple times - and if you aren't going to bring something fresh (or at least specific) to the discussion, why bother?

Tell that to the one trolling me, doesn't matter the content, I even copied one of their posts from a couple of years ago, change two or three words to make it relevant to today's team and the same guy gave me a negative vote, just proves trolling. A mod no less.

 

Of course I am not the first to do anything, but try to find the posts about trading the Sedins in July and August, there weren't any so I re-invented the idea with the new information available, things like they are old now and their contracts are ending and getting something in return rather than nothing. So negative.

If I came out with one single statement I would be as bad as a pollster, limiting choices and by doing that, thinking for you.

 

Fresh, try to think of one thing that has not been posted over the last 5 years. It is all just a repeat of the same stuff, which I do try to point to posters, it happened before but no one seems to have learned from the previous mistakes.

 

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55 minutes ago, elvis15 said:

I don't think you understand what trolling is. It's definitely not just a negative vote.

 

The whole rest of your post is just more vague stuff not really saying anything.

It is when there is no comments about the content and only against the poster. Even calling the poster idiotic. I just got a grand lesson from the mods. So I re-read the guidelines, it seems not even some mods are following those rules/guidelines.

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58 minutes ago, elvis15 said:

I don't think you understand what trolling is. It's definitely not just a negative vote.

 

The whole rest of your post is just more vague stuff not really saying anything.

Trolling, by its definition is any post that is upsetting to another poster.  It's got to be the silliest concept I've learned about this year of being on the Internet.  Calling someone a troll is assuming knowledge of intention.  

A poster advancing their opinion is nothing more than their opinion, and said poster cannot be responsible for how other posters interpret their intentions.  

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