Jonathan Dahlén | C/LW

[Kootenay Gold]

29 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

I was at a Bantam game on the weekend. A player lost his edge and fell coming in to check a player at centre ice, the other player was flipped and landed on his head/neck and laid motionless on the ice for over 20 minutes waiting for the paramedics to arrive. They stabilized the young boy, took him off the ice on a stretcher and transported to the hospital. He was diagnosed with a severe concussion and a sprained neck.

 

This same scenario could happen any time in the NHL and I can't see any possible justification for a penalty, let alone a suspension. 

That is a great point Rick. Every incident where a player is severely injured by another player on the ice has to be judged on what the sequence of events were. If it was "intentional" or "accidental" and could the situation have been avoided by either player? Was the injury caused by, in the case you mentioned, "just losing an edge" or poor ice conditions.

 

Not every injury or concussion happens due to deliberate intent and whether it is suspension worthy has to be judged on that.

[Googlie]

1 hour ago, Kanukfanatic said:

Read your post again Googlie. YOU said "REGARDLESS OF CIRCUMSTANCES"!!!!

 

Lol. That is why your post was so silly to begin with. It seems you don't even understand it lmao.  

Let me rephrase my question then:

 

In what way could EP cause Johnny to be concussed? 

 

(Obviously Rick's example would be one).

 

My suggestion was hyperbole, obviously, to start a discussion.  One could insert "intentionally causes", but that then opens up determining intemt. The point I was making was that the deterrent (one game, 3 games) renders the punishment toothless.

 

(And btw, it didn't warrant your flame response)

[Kootenay Gold]

26 minutes ago, Googlie said:

The point I was making was that the deterrent (one game, 3 games) renders the punishment toothless.

The thing that bothers me about suspensions in the AHL is there does not seem to be in place a defined progressive scale of suspension length for repeat offenders such as Tangratti.

[Kanukfanatic]

double post

 

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Kanukfanatic

[Kanukfanatic]

45 minutes ago, Googlie said:

Let me rephrase my question then:

 

In what way could EP cause Johnny to be concussed? 

 

(Obviously Rick's example would be one).

 

My suggestion was hyperbole, obviously, to start a discussion.  One could insert "intentionally causes", but that then opens up determining intemt. The point I was making was that the deterrent (one game, 3 games) renders the punishment toothless.

 

(And btw, it didn't warrant your flame response)

Don't be so sensitive. It wasn't a FLAME response...whatever that even means.

 

Absolute's like that don't work. You cause a concussion regardless of circumstance you get 30 game suspension.

 

It doesn't work in the real world for systems such as the criminal justice system and there are lots of other examples. Intent is everything. Difficult to prove of course. The NHL does not need more rules. They have enough rules in their rule book.

 

The DOP merely needs to actually enforce the rules they have with suspensions. Our courts are in the same boat as the NHL Department of player safety. There are plenty of laws in this country but our cream puff judges fail, continually, to actually enforce those laws by giving out sentences.  An example is breaking and entering into someones house. The max sentence in the criminal code is life in jail. These idiot judges constantly give 1 day sentence served to these little junky idiots that break into hundreds of peoples house to steal stuff to sell for crack. Canadian judges for the most part (in the criminal system) are a joke!!

 

Absolutes don't work and won't work in your example.

 

However, we do agree the DOP needs to hand out suspensions to more players in more circumstances.

 

Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread further.

 

GO CANUCKS!!  Get some points Petey and win the game!!

 

 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Kanukfanatic

[Rick Blight]

I think we all agree that concussions are very serious and that the players and the league need to work together to reduce the number of incidences. They need to look at equipment, they need to look at the actual construction of the arena and they must find a way to make players respect other players in their own association.

 

As with most problems of this magnitude, recognizing the issue is quite apparent but coming up with a reasonable solution is far, far more difficult. The league has initiated actions that they hope will reduce concussions by putting rounded padded glass near the players benches, establishing a department to manage player safety and administer suspensions for obvious disdain of the rules and they have worked with industry to improve the quality of players head gear. Obviously, we can all agree to disagree on the success of these initiatives but at least it is a start.

 

I am convinced that concussions will always happen in a fast moving physical game like hockey. Players hitting heads on the ice from legal checks, players hit in the head by a puck and players battling for pucks and sliding into the unforgiving boards will always risk resulting in concussions or other head injuries. In my opinion, the focus now needs to shift to player education on how legal checks should be administered and how to avoid placing yourself in harms way. This is done from the time players reach Bantam level but I think the league needs to re-enforce this with players even when they have reached the NHL level......show them you are serious. Players also need to understand the repercussions for ignoring rules and the possible fines and suspensions that may be handed out.

 

I know I don't have the solutions to this problem but I would like to see the NHL go back to the forgiving glass similar to what you used to see in the old Chicago rink.....the glass wobbling from big hits was amazingly safe for players and the crowds would just go wild.

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, Kanukfanatic said:

I went web surfing to try and find some but failed. Not that I spent that much time looking.

 

Saying there are more concussions in the AHL than the NHL is just one of those things posters seem to type without any actual proof. They like to assume it is more of a goon league. Not sure why...watching the movie "Goon" too many times?? lol

 

Tom Wilson himself hands out plenty of concussions in the NHL. I doubt the AHL has higher numbers but would love it if someone actually has stats.

That is kind of why I asked because I can't seem to find the information, but it seems to be mentioned as fact. Pettersson made the NHL and didn't avoid getting a concussion, so I'm not sure what merit the comment about Pettersson potentially being in the AHL has.

[Dats hockey]

15 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Is there actual information that backs this claim up? There have been plenty of bad hits and concussions just this season alone in the NHL.

If you go through just the suspension alone you can see they is much dirtier play in the AHL.

 

also if you actually watch AHL you’d know things get chippy more often 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Dats hockey

[theo5789]

39 minutes ago, Dats hockey said:

If you go through just the suspension alone you can see they is much dirtier play in the AHL.

 

also if you actually watch AHL you’d know things get chippy more often 

And last night our team suffered another concussion. The NHL haven't been consistent with their suspension rulings (maybe more at stake as to how suspensions may affect a team?) so I wouldn't know how many potential suspendable plays were overlooked. But I do know concussions (amongst other injuries) are just as prominent at the NHL level. Baertschi's headshot was overlooked and now Stecher's headshot doesn't even warrant a hearing.

 

Of course at the AHL level, there may be some less talented individuals trying to make a name for themselves. And even if there is factual evidence that the AHL is worse, at the end of the day Pettersson still didn't avoid getting a concussion, so the point is moot regardless.

Edited December 19, 2018 by theo5789

[Dats hockey]

2 hours ago, theo5789 said:

And last night our team suffered another concussion. The NHL haven't been consistent with their suspension rulings (maybe more at stake as to how suspensions may affect a team?) so I wouldn't know how many potential suspendable plays were overlooked. But I do know concussions (amongst other injuries) are just as prominent at the NHL level. Baertschi's headshot was overlooked and now Stecher's headshot doesn't even warrant a hearing.

 

Of course at the AHL level, there may be some less talented individuals trying to make a name for themselves. And even if there is factual evidence that the AHL is worse, at the end of the day Pettersson still didn't avoid getting a concussion, so the point is moot regardless.

Yeah you’re right the more meanless headhunters the better

[Ray_Cathode]

On 12/18/2018 at 5:34 PM, Kanukfanatic said:

Don't be so sensitive. It wasn't a FLAME response...whatever that even means.

 

Absolute's like that don't work. You cause a concussion regardless of circumstance you get 30 game suspension.

 

It doesn't work in the real world for systems such as the criminal justice system and there are lots of other examples. Intent is everything. Difficult to prove of course. The NHL does not need more rules. They have enough rules in their rule book.

 

The DOP merely needs to actually enforce the rules they have with suspensions. Our courts are in the same boat as the NHL Department of player safety. There are plenty of laws in this country but our cream puff judges fail, continually, to actually enforce those laws by giving out sentences.  An example is breaking and entering into someones house. The max sentence in the criminal code is life in jail. These idiot judges constantly give 1 day sentence served to these little junky idiots that break into hundreds of peoples house to steal stuff to sell for crack. Canadian judges for the most part (in the criminal system) are a joke!!

 

Absolutes don't work and won't work in your example.

 

However, we do agree the DOP needs to hand out suspensions to more players in more circumstances.

 

Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread further.

 

GO CANUCKS!!  Get some points Petey and win the game!!

 

 

“It doesn't work in the real world for systems such as the criminal justice system...”. Of course it works!  All the time the guy is incarcerated, he is not committing crimes on the outside.  The entire ‘punishment doesn’t prevent crime malarkey’ is exactly that, nonsense on the face of it, promoted by the legal profession and soft heads to keep criminals out in public committing crimes and providing the legal profession with more jobs and better pay.

[Salming]

Dahlen would be much better off reaching his potential in SHL. Playing in a higher tempo with more skilled players.

 

Even if it may be vital to adapt to the small rink, especially defensivly, I don't see how he can develop his game in a dump-and-chase-thug-league like AHL.

 

And if the Canucks isnt gonna invest in him or give him a chance, trade him! Canucks will still get more from it than Burrows that we offloaded to get his rights.

[UticaHockey]

1 hour ago, Salming said:

Dahlen would be much better off reaching his potential in SHL. Playing in a higher tempo with more skilled players.

 

Even if it may be vital to adapt to the small rink, especially defensivly, I don't see how he can develop his game in a dump-and-chase-thug-league like AHL.

 

And if the Canucks isnt gonna invest in him or give him a chance, trade him! Canucks will still get more from it than Burrows that we offloaded to get his rights.

Just curious. How many AHL have you watched? Full games and not highlights or GIFS. 

[canuckledraggin]

26 minutes ago, UticaHockey said:

Just curious. How many AHL have you watched? Full games and not highlights or GIFS. 

I love your new Saucerman icon:) I do however think you are hyper-critical of all things Comets. Since the Canucks have become healthier they are 5-0-1 and the Comets are also 5-0-1. Coincidence? I think Demko, MacEwen and McEneny all deserve a look in the NHL this year. It's unfortunate that Juolevi and Dahlen have been derailed, but it's all about the next man up philosophy. We are seeing good progression from our signed prospects.

[NHL'er]

On 12/21/2018 at 2:30 AM, canuckledraggin said:

I love your new Saucerman icon:) I do however think you are hyper-critical of all things Comets. Since the Canucks have become healthier they are 5-0-1 and the Comets are also 5-0-1. Coincidence? I think Demko, MacEwen and McEneny all deserve a look in the NHL this year. It's unfortunate that Juolevi and Dahlen have been derailed, but it's all about the next man up philosophy. We are seeing good progression from our signed prospects.

Agreed with your both parts of your post. I think UticaHockey makes some great informative posts but sometimes he acts like he has a monopoly over all things AHL which is a shame because he’d be quite popular if he wasn’t so condescending! 

[Putgolzin]

1 minute ago, NHL'er said:

Agreed with your both parts of your post. I think UticaHockey makes some great informative posts but sometimes he acts like he has a monopoly over all things AHL which is a shame because he’d be quite popular if he wasn’t so condescending! 

I’ve gotten retorted to by UticaHockey and disagree. He’s knowledgeable and impassioned like a good fan should be. If his passion spills over into sharp disagreement sometimes that’s understandable.

[NHL'er]

1 hour ago, nzan said:

I’ve gotten retorted to by UticaHockey and disagree. He’s knowledgeable and impassioned like a good fan should be. If his passion spills over into sharp disagreement sometimes that’s understandable.

I understand but disagree. If his passion spills into an “I am holier than thou” attitude, it doesn’t change the fact he’s  displaying a “I am holier than thou” attitude. His post above demonstrates that clearly enough.

 

Anyway, back on topic, I’m rooting for Dahlen. Still believe he can become a Sven Baerstchi type player for us. 

Edited December 23, 2018 by NHL'er

[Putgolzin]

3 hours ago, NHL'er said:

I understand but disagree. If his passion spills into an “I am holier than thou” attitude, it doesn’t change the fact he’s  displaying a “I am holier than thou” attitude. His post above demonstrates that clearly enough.

 

Anyway, back on topic, I’m rooting for Dahlen. Still believe he can become a Sven Baerstchi type player for us. 

I agree on Dahlen, I don’t think I’m being too overly-optimistic in expecting even more than Baertschi.

Edited December 23, 2018 by nzan

[UticaHockey]

3 hours ago, NHL'er said:

I understand but disagree. If his passion spills into an “I am holier than thou” attitude, it doesn’t change the fact he’s  displaying a “I am holier than thou” attitude. His post above demonstrates that clearly enough.

 

Anyway, back on topic, I’m rooting for Dahlen. Still believe he can become a Sven Baerstchi type player for us. 

I honestly don't remember ever having a discussion with you in any of the threads.  Not saying that we haven't but off the top of my head I don't remember.

[Kootenay Gold]

3 hours ago, NHL'er said:

I’m rooting for Dahlen. Still believe he can become a Sven Baerstchi type player for us. 

I hope so too.... just minus all the concussions.