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4 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Sure.

 

What about the other estimated 6000+ mass killings in the Us since McVeigh that are not "terrorist" attacks (Killings with more than 3 people)

 

When you start gunning down large numbers of people it's not an act of terrorism.  You kill 2 and worship someone that is not a christian or catholic god and you're a terrorist.

 

I shouldn't have to spell this out for you because it's been done to death

No.

 

 

The difference between terrorism and regular mass murder is that terrorism has an ideological and political goal. It's intended to spread terror to accomplish that goal.

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/khalid-masood-london-terror-attacker-52-kent-west-midlands-westminster-bridge-met-police-a7646321.html

 

Quote

Khalid Masood: London attacker identified as 52-year-old born Adrian Russell Ajao who 'converted to Islam'

'It’s a shock to know he did what he did. It’s a shock to know he lived across the road,' says suspect's former neighbour

The guy who did this attack was a violent criminal who converted to Islam in prison.

Quote

The 52-year-old was born Adrian Russell Ajao in Dartford, Kent, and most recently lived in the West Midlands. He is understood to have converted to Islam in prison, having spent time behind bars for violent crime, at which point he also went by the alias Khalid Choudry.

But I guess this is just another example that Islam is the problem.  OK

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5 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/khalid-masood-london-terror-attacker-52-kent-west-midlands-westminster-bridge-met-police-a7646321.html

 

The guy who did this attack was a violent criminal who converted to Islam in prison.

But I guess this is just another example that Islam is the problem.  OK

When we think of prison Church services and turning them into "Christian Soldiers"..... we think of them eventually becoming like door-to-door people preaching love and peace.

For whatever reason, the Islamic services in prisons are turning some people into "Islamic Soldiers".... where they go all jihad on society.  

 

Shouldn't there be some monitoring in these prisons?  

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1 hour ago, Lancaster said:

When we think of prison Church services and turning them into "Christian Soldiers"..... we think of them eventually becoming like door-to-door people preaching love and peace.

For whatever reason, the Islamic services in prisons are turning some people into "Islamic Soldiers".... where they go all jihad on society.  

 

Shouldn't there be some monitoring in these prisons?  

It's a little more complicated than that. Muslims make up 44% of all high security prisoners in the UK, and in places like France, they form the majority of all prisoners. So monitoring them is not so easily done. 

 

To be fair to the criminals, it really is a 2 way street. European societies are not as diverse as North American societies. Many of these muslim populations live in large ghettos with little access to education or employment. They become criminals. They become prey to extremists. Europe further isolates them. It's a vicious cycle that way. 

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1 hour ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/khalid-masood-london-terror-attacker-52-kent-west-midlands-westminster-bridge-met-police-a7646321.html

 

The guy who did this attack was a violent criminal who converted to Islam in prison.

But I guess this is just another example that Islam is the problem.  OK

Not all of Islam is a problem, but there are definitely sects that are. When you have a naturally violent person and expose them to an ideology that is not only violent but justifies that violence, it's a recipe for disaster.

 

As a society it's important that we separate the good from the bad. If we don't we are losing freedom of expression, thought, and religion, which is what we are combating when we fight extremism.  

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21 minutes ago, taxi said:

It's a little more complicated than that. Muslims make up 44% of all high security prisoners in the UK, and in places like France, they form the majority of all prisoners. So monitoring them is not so easily done. 

 

To be fair to the criminals, it really is a 2 way street. European societies are not as diverse as North American societies. Many of these muslim populations live in large ghettos with little access to education or employment. They become criminals. They become prey to extremists. Europe further isolates them. It's a vicious cycle that way. 

Sometimes it's best to get in front of an issue instead of letting it develop organically.  Maybe they should have some in-house clerics preaching only peaceful messages instead of potentially having some more radical element establishing roots.  

 

Every ethnic/cultural groups gets the short-end of the stick.... but not every single one of them end up in crime.  European society probably is not as accepting of other as North Americans, but you don't hear about radical Chinese commies blowing up shops in Europe wishing the return of Marxism, nor do you find East Indians in the UK demanding the caste system to be in place.  There must be some reasons why certain minority communities are able to integrate within the fabric of society seamlessly whereas some others are unable or maybe unwilling to.  

 

It's entirely legitimate to question whether certain beliefs are just simply incompatible with Western ideals of liberty, human rights, equality, etc.  

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35 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

Sometimes it's best to get in front of an issue instead of letting it develop organically.  Maybe they should have some in-house clerics preaching only peaceful messages instead of potentially having some more radical element establishing roots.  

 

Every ethnic/cultural groups gets the short-end of the stick.... but not every single one of them end up in crime.  European society probably is not as accepting of other as North Americans, but you don't hear about radical Chinese commies blowing up shops in Europe wishing the return of Marxism, nor do you find East Indians in the UK demanding the caste system to be in place.  There must be some reasons why certain minority communities are able to integrate within the fabric of society seamlessly whereas some others are unable or maybe unwilling to.  

 

It's entirely legitimate to question whether certain beliefs are just simply incompatible with Western ideals of liberty, human rights, equality, etc.  

I doubt they are letting extremists openly preach already. It's more likely a scenario where you have people with violent views, who are criminals, in jail as inmates. They spread those views to other inmates. There are lots of easy targets as the inmates feel that they are there because society has let them down. Controlling ideas is a difficult thing to do. The more you persecute a group, the more it can encourage radical ideas. 

 

I'm all for a strategy that embraces moderates and attacks extremists, but deciding how you attack the extremists is the tough part. You want to use methods that accomplish their goal without encouraging more extremism. 

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5 hours ago, inane said:

Perhaps part of one of the reasons some want to kill Americans/the west.

 

 

No, american society is simply the "enemy" of islam, everytime they commit terrorism they praise Allah. 

 

This reason is hypocritical. They'd kill Americans because of some American soldiers? But we can't ban them all (muslims) because of some "bad ones"

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57 minutes ago, taxi said:

I doubt they are letting extremists openly preach already. It's more likely a scenario where you have people with violent views, who are criminals, in jail as inmates. They spread those views to other inmates. There are lots of easy targets as the inmates feel that they are there because society has let them down. Controlling ideas is a difficult thing to do. The more you persecute a group, the more it can encourage radical ideas. 

 

I'm all for a strategy that embraces moderates and attacks extremists, but deciding how you attack the extremists is the tough part. You want to use methods that accomplish their goal without encouraging more extremism. 

The police in the UK, even when they have heard about a pedophile ring in ireland, didn't investigate the place because they're scared of getting called racist. 

What's hindering the police on stopping this crimes is it's political correctness, they try so hard to avoid offending muslims when and stay away from islam when its almost always the common denominator 

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8 minutes ago, BlackBeard said:

No, american society is simply the "enemy" of islam, everytime they commit terrorism they praise Allah. 

 

This reason is hypocritical. They'd kill Americans because of some American soldiers? But we can't ban them all (muslims) because of some "bad ones"

Oh, I didn't know you were the authority on Muslim terrorist motivations. Huh. 

 

Also, I like your thinking. Other people so dumb stuff so why can't we? That's a real recipe for success! 

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3 minutes ago, inane said:

Oh, I didn't know you were the authority on Muslim terrorist motivations. Huh. 

 

Also, I like your thinking. Other people so dumb stuff so why can't we? That's a real recipe for success! 

Yeah sure stay away from the fact that Islam commands its people to terrorize and be harsh to unbelievers.

 

You're the one who thought that way, you suggested that as the reason why muslims kill americans. Youre the one who like your own thinking.

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4 minutes ago, BlackBeard said:

Yeah sure stay away from the fact that Islam commands its people to terrorize and be harsh to unbelievers.

 

You're the one who thought that way, you suggested that as the reason why muslims kill americans. Youre the one who like your own thinking.

I'm the one who likes my own thinking....um ok. Busted? 

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1 hour ago, taxi said:

I doubt they are letting extremists openly preach already. It's more likely a scenario where you have people with violent views, who are criminals, in jail as inmates. They spread those views to other inmates. There are lots of easy targets as the inmates feel that they are there because society has let them down. Controlling ideas is a difficult thing to do. The more you persecute a group, the more it can encourage radical ideas. 

 

I'm all for a strategy that embraces moderates and attacks extremists, but deciding how you attack the extremists is the tough part. You want to use methods that accomplish their goal without encouraging more extremism. 

There are obviously lots of violent people in the US too, but they're not really churning out extreme Christians or anything.  The most "extreme" Christians that come out of jail probably goes around asking people, "Have you heard the word about the Lord Jesus Christ?"  

Perhaps more radicalized racially motivated groups may arise from prison, but those are based on hateful ideology.  

 

Terrible to point fingers, but Islam hasn't evolved much from the days of Mohammed, whereas Christianity and the Western world has changed drastically since.  The Roman era when the Christian faith was very fluid, then the Byzantine with all them councils, to the Schism, the Reformation, then the Renaissance, the Age of Exploration, the Age of Enlightenment, the Women's Rights movements, the Civil Rights movements.... the Western World and Christianity has both evolved together and separately over the centuries and millennia.  

The Islamic world had their Shiite/Sunni split, but nothing really since.  Technology has changed, but their society hasn't.  

 

Imagine bringing modern technology and the internet to the Medieval era.... the web would be filled with flamewars about how many angels can stand on the head of pin, how the Earth is flat and how society should be constructing the Great Firewall to block all thoughtcrimes.... oh wait.... 

 

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1 hour ago, BlackBeard said:

The police in the UK, even when they have heard about a pedophile ring in ireland, didn't investigate the place because they're scared of getting called racist. 

What's hindering the police on stopping this crimes is it's political correctness, they try so hard to avoid offending muslims when and stay away from islam when its almost always the common denominator 

I don't disagree that political correctness gone awry is a major problem. Our society needs to re-learn to stand up for things like basic human rights again, regardless of what ethnicity/religion/political affiliation the perpetrator is.

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25 minutes ago, taxi said:

I don't disagree that political correctness gone awry is a major problem. Our society needs to re-learn to stand up for things like basic human rights again, regardless of what ethnicity/religion/political affiliation the perpetrator is.

Yes I agree, we have to stand up for the rights we've built our society on

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