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(Proposal) Building for the Future


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Hey guys, my first CDC post so please don't be so harsh.

 

Anyways, I realized that the Oilers are a playoff team because McDavid and Draisaitl are confident. Maroon, Lucic, Kassian, and Nurse help build this confidence. As you can probably guess, I'm talking about skilled tough guys. Non skilled tough guys are useless (Dorsett, Prust etc.) so I think we need some skilled tough prosepcts if we want a chance at the Stanley Cup. Our defense looks good, but on offense we only have Jake Virtanen, and who knows if he will pan out. We have lots of skilled forwards that we can afford to lose in Baertschi, Granlund, Dahlen, and Goldobin. What if we trade a few of them for some skilled tough guys? Some prosepcts we can target are Logan Brown, Jordan Greenway, Max Jones, and Curtis Lazar, but before we get tough guys, we need a number 1 centre.

 

Trade 1: Tanev to ARI for 2nd OA pick (assuming they win the lottery) Patrick/Hischier

Reasons: Arizona have good centremen depth in Strome and Keller, but they do lack defense. Tanev could help solidify the defensive core, and Arizona would rely on Connor Murphy a lot less. We can afford to lose Tanev because we have Gudbranson, Stecher, and Tryamkin on the right side.

 

Trade 2: Our pick (5th to 7th OA) for 9th-12th OA (Cal Foote) + 2nd or 3rd round pick

Reasons: Which team wouldn't want a higher pick? We do this because we get a safer choice than Liljegren and Makar.

 

Trade 3: McEneny + 4th rounder to CGY for Lazar

Reasons: If Lazar doesn't pan out in Calgary, he might want to come home, and the price for him is not that bad. Problem is that Calgary might not like this deal

 

After Expansion Draft Trade 4: Hutton to MIN for Greenway

Reasons: Minnesota gets a Brodin replacement (considering that they'd probably lose him in the expansion draft) and the Canucks get a good power forward with lots of potential.

 

After Expansion Draft Trade 5: Baertschi to ANA for Max Jones + 1st/2nd rounder

Reasons: Anaheim gets a Silfverberg replacement, and we get another big skilled forward. Anaheim might have to add a 2018 1st because Max Jones's OHL numbers aren't great. He might just be another Virtanen type player. If they don't agree to a first rounder, hopefully they'd agree to a 2nd.

 

2017-18 lineup

Eriksson Horvat Goldobin

Sedin Sedin Granlund

Rodin Sutter Skille

Dorsett Chaput Megna (Gaunce to LV)

Edler Stecher

Sbisa Gudbranson

Tryamkin Biega

Markstrom

Bachman

Hopefully this roster can land Rasmus Dahlin

 

Potential Cup Winning Roster

Greenway Hischier/Patrick Boeser

Jones/ANA pick Horvat Granlund

Eriksson Gaudette Goldobin

Dahlen Lazar Virtanen

Dahlin Gudbranson

Juolevi Foote

Tryamkin Stecher

Demko

Markstrom/Garteig

 

Tell me what you guys think :)

 

 

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13 minutes ago, JAVALE MCGEE said:

Trade 1: Tanev to ARI for 2nd OA pick (assuming they win the lottery) Patrick/Hischier

Reasons: Arizona have good centremen depth in Strome and Keller, but they do lack defense. Tanev could help solidify the defensive core, and Arizona would rely on Connor Murphy a lot less. We can afford to lose Tanev because we have Gudbranson, Stecher, and Tryamkin on the right side.

 

Trade 2: Our pick (5th to 7th OA) for 9th-12th OA (Cal Foote) + 2nd or 3rd round pick

Reasons: Which team wouldn't want a higher pick? We do this because we get a safer choice than Liljegren and Makar.

 

Trade 3: McEneny + 4th rounder to CGY for Lazar

Reasons: If Lazar doesn't pan out in Calgary, he might want to come home, and the price for him is not that bad. Problem is that Calgary might not like this deal

1. If you're Arizona with #2 overall, would you trade it for Tanev?

 

2. What if Foote goes 8th?

 

3. McEneny > Lazar

 

We're likely going to draft 5-7 and will get a good player, probably a centre.

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Quote

Trade 2: Our pick (5th to 7th OA) for 9th-12th OA (Cal Foote) + 2nd or 3rd round pick

Reasons: Which team wouldn't want a higher pick? We do this because we get a safer choice than Liljegren and Makar.

Or you just hold on to the pick and draft Vilardi or Mittelstadt.

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Just now, Hutton Wink said:

1. If you're Arizona with #2 overall, would you trade it for Tanev?

 

2. What if Foote goes 8th?

 

3. McEneny > Lazar

 

We're likely going to draft 5-7 and will get a good player, probably a centre.

1: The value is a little unfair, but Tanev is what Arizona needs. Besides they have Strome and Keller

2: I predict the order will be: Patrick, Hischier, Vilardi, Mittelstadt, Liljegren, Makar, Tippett, Necas, Glass, Rasmussen, Tolvanen, Foote the rest can be random

3: I don't think McEneny will ever crack our roster, and Lazar will be a energetic 4th liner that I think will be clutch in the playoffs. Kinda like Burrows. One year in the AHL on aline with Grenier and Virtanen can do him some good.

4: Mittelstadt is probably the best centre out of the top 3, and him and Horvat would probably not make a nasty duo like Henrik and Kesler did.

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Just now, JAVALE MCGEE said:

3: I don't think McEneny will ever crack our roster, and Lazar will be a energetic 4th liner that I think will be clutch in the playoffs. Kinda like Burrows. One year in the AHL on aline with Grenier and Virtanen can do him some good.

4: Mittelstadt is probably the best centre out of the top 3, and him and Horvat would probably not make a nasty duo like Henrik and Kesler did.

1. No. Lazar is garbage.

2. Explain your reasoning.

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1 minute ago, Winter Soldier said:

Or you just hold on to the pick and draft Vilardi or Mittelstadt.

Most of Mittelsatdt's points come off of the powerplay. It's what we need to boost up our 29th ranked powerplay, but there will be a lot more 5v5 time than 5v4 time, so I am not so hyped about him. Vilardi would probably go 3rd

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Just now, Winter Soldier said:

1. No. Lazar is garbage.

2. Explain your reasoning.

Lazar can be a project. He is gritty and good defensively from what I've heard. Him and Virtanen will try to win every game because they cheered for the Canucks growing up, and they would probably love to be a piece of a championship winning roster.

Mittelstadt is projected to be a 2nd liner. Unless Horvat can become a Bergeron or Toews, he would not fill our top 3 centremen need

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Overinflated values here.  Arizona is not giving up the 2nd overall for  Tanev. And in what world if Baertschi worth two first round picks?   

 

Beyond that,I don't understand your reasoning for trading down, trading Hutton for a college player, and not sure why Calgary gives up on Lazer after 20 some games.  

 

 

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15 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Overinflated values here.  Arizona is not giving up the 2nd overall for  Tanev. And in what world if Baertschi worth two first round picks?   

 

Beyond that,I don't understand your reasoning for trading down, trading Hutton for a college player, and not sure why Calgary gives up on Lazer after 20 some games.  

 

 

Tanev is a need for Arizona

Those two picks are prolly two 24 OA picks

Trade down because Foote has less risk

College players pan out better than CHL players

I said Calgary might not trade Lazar

 

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38 minutes ago, JAVALE MCGEE said:

Tanev is a need for Arizona

Those two picks are prolly two 24 OA picks

Trade down because Foote has less risk

College players pan out better than CHL players

I said Calgary might not trade Lazar

 

Tanev is not nearly as much of a need to Arizona as Arizona's pick. Arizona needs that pick waaaaay more than Tanev. To get their pick, you would likely have to start with someone of Horvat value. If you don't believe me, look at the past history of top 5 picks being traded (and Toronto trading for Kessel doesn't count as it was done with the assumption Toronto would be higher in the standings which totally flopped).... they aren't traded usually because the value is way too high for any team to want to pull the trigger.

 

Liljegren and Makar are the top 2 defensemen. If any 2 teams higher than us would prefer a defenseman, they could easily be gone. Time and time again the rankings are generally thrown out the window come draft time. When do we ever see a draft of the top 10 resemble the actual rankings? It never happens.

 

College players and CHL players both can pan out or flop. To say one is better than the other.... is this to say Crosby didn't pan our better than Parise or something? Do apples pan out better than oranges even though they both have the ability to ripen? Backing up your opinion with another opinion such as this is not generally a good way to form an argument, Look for actual facts instead if you want to form a strong argument. I'm saying this more to help you out and I hope you realise that. 

 

Lazar's having troubles staying in this league and, unless if he turns things around, he might not be around in a couple of years. He had issues staying in the lineup in Ottawa and the same has happened in Calgary. 2 assists this season in 35 games. Just brutal.

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Here's actually an interesting article on the history of number 1 draft picks being traded. While it may not be the 2nd overall, it's unlikely to be that far being the number 1 spot in terms of value. Notice how 2003 was the last time the number 1 has ever been traded and notice how expensive it tends to be (especially when it's known that it's a number 1 pick at the time of the trade, yikes!)....

 

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/were-no-1-the-history-of-trading-the-nhls-top-pick/

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The Wild are trying to create cap space to sign Niederreiter and Granlund by moving Ds.  Hutton wouldn't fit under their cap.  Also Brodin is a left shot but plays mostly RD for them so bringing in Hutton who only plays LD does not make a whole lot of sense to replace him.  They are more likely to promote Folin, Reilly, Oloffson.

Greenway is also a player they are really anxious to get under contract.  Having players on ELC is the only way they are going to be able to keep everyone under the cap going forward.

 

Arizona was trying to acquire Trouba or Hamilton - offensive Ds.  Not really the profile of Tanev.   They are way better off drafting Hischier/Patrick and then trading them to get the player they want than someone that doesn't really fit their profile.  Also their younger Ds now have a year more of experience so they might not have the same interest in acquiring a D compared to the start of the season.  They could have tried and get a young D/prospects out of the Wild for Hanzal - they didn't and instead settled for draft picks.

 

Indication is that the Ducks are going to have Bieksa waive his NMC or will buy him out.  They will apparently also look into trading a D pre-expansion for a F so they can go 7F + 3D.  

Goldobin can't even get into the lineup now - it's unlikely he can step into a line with Horvat in the regular season.  Comments out of SJ is that his game is not NHL ready.


Rodin is a UFA - really doubtful he will be back. 

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Honestly, I knew this post would be bad as soon as I read the second line. The Oilers are a playoff team because McDavid and Draisaitl are confident? No. Because they are supremely talented. I remember watching Draisaitl play against us in preseason the year of his drafting, and I said to myself, that guy is a stud. His size, the way he skated, shielded the puck against experienced players and moved it was class. I'll be polite since it's your first post, and I won't ridicule you. Seriously though, don't fall into this nonsense rhetoric about environment. It's not insignificant, but TALENT is king. You put 15 all-stars on a team and they will always win the Stanley Cup, provided there isn't a team with at least 10 all-stars. ALWAYS. This has nothing to do with confidence this or that due to big strong player X or Y. If confidence has any role to play it's because McDavid and Draisaitl are confident due to their talent, not their environment.

 

I take exception to viewpoints like this because it's the same nonsense that was used to justify us supposedly not needing to rebuild. Gotta give the kids a good environment, and come 17th every year.

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3 hours ago, Aircool said:

Honestly, I knew this post would be bad as soon as I read the second line. The Oilers are a playoff team because McDavid and Draisaitl are confident? No. Because they are supremely talented. I remember watching Draisaitl play against us in preseason the year of his drafting, and I said to myself, that guy is a stud. His size, the way he skated, shielded the puck against experienced players and moved it was class. I'll be polite since it's your first post, and I won't ridicule you. Seriously though, don't fall into this nonsense rhetoric about environment. It's not insignificant, but TALENT is king. You put 15 all-stars on a team and they will always win the Stanley Cup, provided there isn't a team with at least 10 all-stars. ALWAYS. This has nothing to do with confidence this or that due to big strong player X or Y. If confidence has any role to play it's because McDavid and Draisaitl are confident due to their talent, not their environment.

 

I take exception to viewpoints like this because it's the same nonsense that was used to justify us supposedly not needing to rebuild. Gotta give the kids a good environment, and come 17th every year.

Do you think that McDavid and Draisaitl would carry this team to the playoffs if they were healthy? Serious question. I personally believe they need a little bit of everything to win the Stanley Cup.

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17 minutes ago, JAVALE MCGEE said:

Do you think that McDavid and Draisaitl would carry this team to the playoffs if they were healthy? Serious question. I personally believe they need a little bit of everything to win the Stanley Cup.

If you added McDavid and Draisaitl to our current team, without subtracting anyone. Yes we would have made the playoffs. I would guarantee that. Win a Stanley Cup? No. Our defense isn't good enough for that, not even close, despite how much some people on these forums are overrating it. To be honest, I do believe the rest of the Oilers team is better than our team without the Sedins for example. So I think their supporting cast is better. That's not just stylistically, but talent wise. Talent is what matters. The reality is that you can coach plugs. Look at Toronto.. Fighting for a playoff spot, just by adding Top-10 picks to their team and getting probably the best coach in hockey. Lots of plugs on that team. You need frontline talent. You going to tell me that Toronto is playing well this season because they have big players in their lineup? Because it's a pretty small team, with a couple exceptions in Fehr and Boyle who don't play with Matthews.

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9 hours ago, JAVALE MCGEE said:

Lazar can be a project. He is gritty and good defensively from what I've heard. Him and Virtanen will try to win every game because they cheered for the Canucks growing up, and they would probably love to be a piece of a championship winning roster.

Mittelstadt is projected to be a 2nd liner. Unless Horvat can become a Bergeron or Toews, he would not fill our top 3 centremen need

Wut? 

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9 hours ago, JAVALE MCGEE said:

Lazar can be a project. He is gritty and good defensively from what I've heard.

So we'll give Calgary what's now projecting to be an NHL defenceman PLUS a pick for a "project", whom some are now saying cannot process the NHL game?  Rather keep a guy who's making strides and continuing to decelop and the pick than throw a diminishing asset onto Willie's project shelf.  He has enough young players he needs to develop than to have to take on a guy who's projecting to never make it in the league at all. 

 

You can get "gritty good defensively" guys on the waiver wire for free, which is where Lazar is headed.  And NHL-able ones, not busting projects.

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1. No reason for Az to give up top 2 for Tanev they can get more

 

2. Lazar is slow - no thanks

 

3. Rest of the trades are trading players who are proving they are NHL'ers for unproven futures - seems to be a theme on this site -"shiny new object' syndrome

 

In number three, there is this 'implicit assumption' amongst many here that a draft pick has more value than a player showing he can play in the league- this view shows a distinct lack of understanding of the odds of a draft pick actually making the NHL alone let alone showing he can have a career

 

These proven NHLers for futures and prospects are video game trades, not reality

 

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11 hours ago, JAVALE MCGEE said:

Most of Mittelsatdt's points come off of the powerplay. It's what we need to boost up our 29th ranked powerplay, but there will be a lot more 5v5 time than 5v4 time, so I am not so hyped about him. Vilardi would probably go 3rd

 

Middlestat is an overrated prospect. I watched his high school hockey semi finals and he wasn't even dominant. In a high school league...

 

I think there are better players to pick from 3-7 if thats where we land.

 

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