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[Report] Canucks fire Willie Desjardins


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2 minutes ago, canuck2288 said:

Why would we ever retain Jarvis? 

 

Our special teams were horrible 

Probably because he has won 6 NHL Championships, 4 as a player and 2 in a coaching role. Plus, he has a long standing relationship with GM JB. 

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Crows will go extinct next year when Gudbranson shuts up all the haters. 

You guys bashing him are ridiculous.

He was picked top 3 for a reason. 

He was a 27 min defensemen in Florida with the A on his chest for a reason.

He was a blockbuster trade all to himself for a reason.

He was the trade every reporter was shocked to hear about for a reason. 

He just got injured and you guys are looking at a 20 game sample (he was injured since preseason) to justify our $&!#ty start. 

Well he was actually playing quite well.

Next year I expect him to solidify our D core. 

I have so many question marks about next year, Gudbranson is not one of those question marks.

He will come to play. Every night.

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2 minutes ago, HomeBrew said:

You haven't been watching hockey that long have you? It is a known fact that defensemen in the NHL often break out in their later 20s. 

Maybe in the 80's, and I admit I didn't watch hockey then because I wasn't born.

 

But things change. The prime age of a player is getting younger and younger.

 

You have to go back to guy a like Sheldon Souray if you want an example of a D-man who breaks out in a significant way in his mid 20's after about 300 games of NHL experience. It's very rare and expecting Gudbranson to replicate that is foolish, especially when it's clear he lacks puck and skating ability.

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10 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

.. And Spector, making mountains out of molehills.

Apparently,. The sky is falling here boys and girls..

Canucks going down same dark path as hapless Oilers of before

 

a good read. oils did have a ton of coaching change that did nothing until they replaced Lowe.

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2 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Crows will go extinct next year when Gudbranson shuts up all the haters. 

You guys bashing him are ridiculous.

He was picked top 3 for a reason. 

He was a 27 min defensemen in Florida with the A on his chest for a reason.

He was a blockbuster trade all to himself for a reason.

He was the trade every reporter was shocked to hear about for a reason. 

He just got injured and you guys are looking at a 20 game sample (he was injured since preseason) to justify our $&!#ty start. 

Well he was actually playing quite well.

Next year I expect him to solidify our D core. 

I have so many question marks about next year, Gudbranson is not one of those question marks.

He will come to play. Every night.

+1

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56 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Thanks S'all.

 

To be honest - I would be happy to see Green get a shot.  I'm not sold in the way other armchairs are on the necessity of "NHL experience." 

First of all, no one has NHL experience, until they do.   Second, experienced coaches also fail. 

It's nowhere near that simple imo.   Reducing your principle to 'experience' limits a person's perspective when there are all kinds of considerations.

The team is not on the cusp of contending.  Personally, I'd lean towards promoting our guy - he's proven himself as much as possible - he's worth a shot imo.  I don't know him, haven't worked with him, can't speak to his working relationship with Benning et al - but I'd be in favour of promoting Green.

 

But I honestly have next to no idea who they're going to hire.  I can guess or make a case for Green.  If they hire someone else, what I do know is that they know a hell of a lot more than I do about what they're seeking and getting.

 

They'll have to discuss development philosophies, systems that they intend to employ, they'll talk to players who have played for different coaches and get their feedback, experiences, impressions, etc.  They may determine Gallant is the best fit after looking at what he did with a young Panthers group.  However - and this part I find juicy to be honest - Gallant was criticized in Florida for systems that were 'too slow'/too 'defensive' - not modern enough / didn't 'drive enough possession' lol, yada yada. 

Rowe promised to make the team faster, more exciting, blah blah.  How did  that turn out?  Gallant is, ironically more committed to old school two way hockey (not sure the wallstreets have much idea what they're wishing for).  Florida decided 100+ points wasn't Gud enough.  I've thoroughly enjoyed the subsequent fail.

So, while I like Green, I wouldn't be opposed to Gallant - and would derive some pleasure from the progression, particularly if he came here and guys like Gudbranson went on to kill it.

 

 

hey I don't always agree but i usually learn something from your posts. 

 

I'm in the "armchair" camp on experience, but its more that I work with a lot of management types and have seen some real disasters in some promotions, and some others excel. New management can have the issue of trying too hard, takings things too hard, problems with people management, etc. in other industries and I don't think hockey is any different. Thats the reason I have for being a bit leery of an inexperienced guy, but like you said you have to get it somewhere, and also being new isn't a guarantee of the problems I noted, not at all. Its just there more often in the "new", but then again occasionally there's a Torts too :lol:

 

I believed before Willie's dismissal and still do now, that the main thing was his inability to innovate that did him in. If Willie could handle changing his style to accommodate more kids, he'd still be the coach, but clearly Linden and Benning had no faith he'd adapt. Why would they? Willie had a great chance to try out some new things the last 10 games but he was the same stubborn guy right to the end. 

 

I want a coach thats going to be able to allow a more dynamic offence, let the kids make some mistakes and learn and get better over the next 2-3 season and get back into contention. Maybe thats unrealistic but it would be nice if thats Green. 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, kanucks25 said:

Maybe in the 80's, and I admit I didn't watch hockey then because I wasn't born.

 

But things change. The prime age of a player is getting younger and younger.

 

You have to go back to guy a like Sheldon Souray if you want an example of a D-man who breaks out in a significant way in his mid 20's after about 300 games of NHL experience. It's very rare and expecting Gudbranson to replicate that is foolish, especially when it's clear he lacks puck and skating ability.

Do you have any stats to back up your claim? It kind of sounds like you have convinced yourself about something without actually researching it. 

 

Also: http://vancouversun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/gudbranson-hutton-pairing-even-better-in-real-life

 

"Two at a time, defencemen started at opposite faceoff circles, skated backwards from point to point across their circle, backwards to the blue-line, then pivoted and accelerated forward toward a lone puck in the high slot. First defenceman to the puck got a breakaway. The second defenceman felt shame. Gudbranson, 6-foot-5 and 216 pounds, the tough “stay-at-home” defenceman, went undefeated in the group. Three times he beat the fleet Hutton head to head."

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2 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

a good read. oils did have a ton of coaching change that did nothing until they replaced Lowe.

But I do not see riding out the storm with WD would change much.. 

I'm hoping Green will take over,. and if Gallant could be interested in an associate role, fantastic.

3 minutes ago, HomeBrew said:

Do you have any stats to back up your claim? It kind of sounds like you have convinced yourself about something without actually researching it. 

 

Also: http://vancouversun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/gudbranson-hutton-pairing-even-better-in-real-life

 

"Two at a time, defencemen started at opposite faceoff circles, skated backwards from point to point across their circle, backwards to the blue-line, then pivoted and accelerated forward toward a lone puck in the high slot. First defenceman to the puck got a breakaway. The second defenceman felt shame. Gudbranson, 6-foot-5 and 216 pounds, the tough “stay-at-home” defenceman, went undefeated in the group. Three times he beat the fleet Hutton head to head."

+1

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3 minutes ago, HomeBrew said:

Do you have any stats to back up your claim? It kind of sounds like you have convinced yourself about something without actually researching it. 

 

Also: http://vancouversun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/gudbranson-hutton-pairing-even-better-in-real-life

 

"Two at a time, defencemen started at opposite faceoff circles, skated backwards from point to point across their circle, backwards to the blue-line, then pivoted and accelerated forward toward a lone puck in the high slot. First defenceman to the puck got a breakaway. The second defenceman felt shame. Gudbranson, 6-foot-5 and 216 pounds, the tough “stay-at-home” defenceman, went undefeated in the group. Three times he beat the fleet Hutton head to head."

I illustrated to you how rare it is for D-men to break out the way you suggest they do. Souray was mid 2000's and before him was probably Rafalski which was around 2000.

 

I don't really care that Gudbranson won a skating drill in practice, I care about how he skates in game, and there is no doubt that Tanev is the best skater on our team when it comes to skating to play defense. And Hutton isn't very good at skating to play defence, either, despite being a "good skater" in general. Both Hutton and Gudbranson have a tendency to get beat on the rush.

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2 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

hey I don't always agree but i usually learn something from your posts. 

 

I'm in the "armchair" camp on experience, but its more that I work with a lot of management types and have seen some real disasters in some promotions, and some others excel. New management can have the issue of trying too hard, takings things too hard, problems with people management, etc. in other industries and I don't think hockey is any different. Thats the reason I have for being a bit leery of an inexperienced guy, but like you said you have to get it somewhere, and also being new isn't a guarantee of the problems I noted, not at all. Its just there more often in the "new", but then again occasionally there's a Torts too :lol:

 

I believed before Willie's dismissal and still do now, that the main thing was his inability to innovate that did him in. If Willie could handle changing his style to accommodate more kids, he'd still be the coach, but clearly Linden and Benning had no faith he'd adapt. Why would they? Willie had a great chance to try out some new things the last 10 games but he was the same stubborn guy right to the end. 

 

I want a coach thats going to be able to allow a more dynamic offence, let the kids make some mistakes and learn and get better over the next 2-3 season and get back into contention. Maybe thats unrealistic but it would be nice if thats Green. 

 

 

I can't put too much stock in a coaching promotion - to perform essentially the same role at a higher level - to the analogy of management promotions in business.

 

Anyhow - now that I've had a chance to listen to the first half of the Linden /  Benning press conference I believe they're leaning towards Green.  Linden's comments regarding experience, Benning's comment regarding young coaches stepping up and having great levels of competency and technical skills to match the growth/changes in the game - I think Green has one foot in the door and that it will take someone really blowing them away to edge him out.

Benning wants someone that understands where the team and players are at, who is ready to work in that framework moving forward.

I'll be surprised if it isn't Green.

That is distinct from "I'll be disappointed if it isn't Green."  I'd be happy with him - I don't know that there is or isn't a better candidate - but at the same time, wadr, nor do any other posters in here prescribing who it 'should' be.

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7 minutes ago, HomeBrew said:

Do you have any stats to back up your claim? It kind of sounds like you have convinced yourself about something without actually researching it. 

 

Also: http://vancouversun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/gudbranson-hutton-pairing-even-better-in-real-life

 

"Two at a time, defencemen started at opposite faceoff circles, skated backwards from point to point across their circle, backwards to the blue-line, then pivoted and accelerated forward toward a lone puck in the high slot. First defenceman to the puck got a breakaway. The second defenceman felt shame. Gudbranson, 6-foot-5 and 216 pounds, the tough “stay-at-home” defenceman, went undefeated in the group. Three times he beat the fleet Hutton head to head."

:excl:

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3 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

I illustrated to you how rare it is for D-men to break out the way you suggest they do. Souray was mid 2000's and before him was probably Rafalski which was around 2000.

 

I don't really care that Gudbranson won a skating drill in practice, I care about how he skates in game, and there is no doubt that Tanev is the best skater on our team when it comes to skating to play defense. And Hutton isn't very good at skating to play defence, either, despite being a "good skater" in general. Both Hutton and Gudbranson have a tendency to get beat on the rush.

You do realize that you are proving my point, not yours by "illustrating" with these two examples. You just gave two examples of players that have broken out in their later 20s, but you haven't produced anything to supports your claim that it does not happen. 

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45 minutes ago, kanucks25 said:

I'm not an "analytics guy" but I can appreciate stats, especially those that support the eye-test.

 

You don't need stats to tell you that Gudbranson isn't very good if you just watch him get beat wide and ice the puck routinely while putting up like 12 points a year.

For a guy who appreciates stats, you sure like to ignore ones that counter your points.......such as the Gudbranson had never been a top 4 dman

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4 minutes ago, oldnews said:

I can't put too much stock in a coaching promotion - to perform essentially the same role at a higher level - to the analogy of management promotions in business.

 

Anyhow - now that I've had a chance to listen to the first half of the Linden /  Benning press conference I believe they're leaning towards Green.  Linden's comments regarding experience, Benning's comment regarding young coaches stepping up and having great levels of competency and technical skills to match the growth/changes in the game - I think Green has one foot in the door and that it will take someone really blowing them away to edge him out.

Benning wants someone that understands where the team and players are at, who is ready to work in that framework moving forward.

I'll be surprised if it isn't Green.

That is distinct from "I'll be disappointed if it isn't Green."  I'd be happy with him - I don't know that there is or isn't a better candidate - but at the same time, wadr, nor do any other posters in here prescribing who it 'should' be.

I agree, for me there are too  many indicators pointing toward Green

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1 minute ago, stawns said:

For a guy who appreciates stats, you sure like to ignore ones that counter your points.......such as the Gudbranson had never been a top 4 dman

He has never performed like one. Just because he has been deployed like one, doesn't make him a true top-4 D-man.

 

 Again, Sbisa has been deployed like a top-4 and even sometimes a top-2 here but he sure as poop isn't one.

 

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